THE RUSH TO HUMILIATE THE POOR

[Darth Krawlie]

You should see my water bill. Definitely not free.

[Ryn]

Just a benefits anecdote: I had a clerk get pregnant and then drop our company's insurance because insurance was free through the state. Our payment was $8 a month ($4 each paycheck).

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

The government is handing out taxpayers' money to people who have not earned it. You're welcome. Wish it could be more, but us working stiffs have to eat too. I'd love to join you for dinner, but I don't leave work until seven.

[Pong Messiah]

Just a benefits anecdote: I had a clerk get pregnant and then drop our company's insurance because insurance was free through the state. Our payment was $8 a month ($4 each paycheck).

 

Was the "free" state insurance better, or was she really that hung up on saving $8?

[monkeygirl]

The government is handing out taxpayers' money to people who have not earned it. You're welcome. Wish it could be more, but us working stiffs have to eat too. I'd love to join you for dinner, but I don't leave work until seven.

Welcome to a Democratic Republic!

[Evolence]

Honest GOP welfare reform: We want to help give a leg up to the down and out. Which is why we will generously give benefits, so long as recipients agree to forego breathing oxygen for the duration of benefits.

[The Kurgan]

The government is handing out taxpayers' money to people who have not earned it. You're welcome. Wish it could be more, but us working stiffs have to eat too. I'd love to join you for dinner, but I don't leave work until seven.

Ha ha ha! The REAL recipients of most government hand outs would not have you for dinner. They're black tie affairs for lobbyists, defense contractors, high level government bureaucrats, and the like. They appreciate you paying for it all, of course, and are extra grateful that your wrath is focused on the poor receiving food stamps, as opposed to themselves.

[Pong Messiah]

Ha ha ha! The REAL recipients of most government hand outs would not have you for dinner. They're black tie affairs for lobbyists, defense contractors, high level government bureaucrats, and the like. They appreciate you paying for it all, of course, and are extra grateful that your wrath is focused on the poor receiving food stamps, as opposed to themselves.

Totally agree with this sentiment!

 

Of course, your statement being true doesn't make two wrongs a right or whatever it was my mama tried to teach me that one day.

 

The scale may be different, but whether it's a billionaire or some guy two paychecks from living in a cardboard box, gaming the system to get free stuff you don't need with other people's money is still bad. We shouldn't have to accept waste, fraud, or shiftlessness just because "it's always been there" or "welcome to a democratic republic."

 

Fortunately, I have more than enough disgust for the human race to go around. So I propose to happily join you in your crusade against the fat cats if you will agree to snatch a lobster tail from a poor person's mouth every so often.

 

Deal? Compromise? These are the sad wings of progress you hear flapping.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

The rush to humiliate the poor

 

I am sure Dana Milbank is right about Republicans being evil, but I just can't wrap my head around what is so "humiliating" or "dehumanizing" about telling people who are receiving state benefits that they have to behave in a certain way or that they can't buy certain things with their benefits. Seems pretty common-sensical to me.

 

Can somebody educate, please?

 

You're right, it is common-sensical to limit where you spend your EBT and on what. This is just another political football.

 

Yeah, but we already had welfare reform to address those issues from the stone age. Need actual modern problems to address before I'll buy it.

 

I think some of it is intentionally done just to humiliate and make it seem like the poor are living extravagant lives. Ban things that the poor can't afford to make it seem like they can.

Every day on the way to work, I see a huge sign in a window that says, without shame, "We accept EBT." This sign is in the window of a Jack in the Box. How's that for modern day problems with EBT? Look, I don't mind that people use EBT if they need it. But personally, and call me crazy for thinking this, I believe EBT should be spent at a grocery store, and used for food to feed yourself and your family properly. Not fast food, not candy, not stoner junk food like Funions and Mountain Dew, not taking your baby momma to the Filiberto's, and definitely not buying yourself a forty of St Ides at the Quick-E-Mart.

[Pong Messiah]

dont u even judge what if u need 40oz of st ides to make stir fry for ur childs birthday party

 

u dont even kno their situation how ur able to kick ppl at their lowest is the meanest ever

 

how dare u

[The Kurgan]

Totally agree with this sentiment!

 

Of course, your statement being true doesn't make two wrongs a right or whatever it was my mama tried to teach me that one day.

 

The scale may be different, but whether it's a billionaire or some guy two paychecks from living in a cardboard box, gaming the system to get free stuff you don't need with other people's money is still bad. We shouldn't have to accept waste, fraud, or shiftlessness just because "it's always been there" or "welcome to a democratic republic."

 

Fortunately, I have more than enough disgust for the human race to go around. So I propose to happily join you in your crusade against the fat cats if you will agree to snatch a lobster tail from a poor person's mouth every so often.

 

Deal? Compromise? These are the sad wings of progress you hear flapping.

That fraud and waste be minimized is not a sentiment I'll argue with.

[Ms. Spam]

Personally even at my lowest I have not even come close to taking advantage of welfare options. And at one point I lived in a trailer and made 5.75 an hour. I took on roommates and worked off the books jobs to make ends meet. Hence my work selling beer and peanuts during Braves games. I have even done make ready work cleaning up new houses and apartment complexes after construction was finished.

I think what is hardest to grasp is that while most people would prefer to work and earn a living there are still others who go exactly in the other direction and expect the state and society to provide things.

[Cerina]

Whatever happened to "beggars can't be choosers"?

 

I firmly believe that it's a government's responsibility to care for its citizens who cannot care for themselves (not won't care for themselves), but, frankly, if you're getting free food/clothing/shelter you should be happy with what you're given as long as it's safe and healthy.

 

I like the idea of going on a WIC-like system for food stamps to avoid these types of problems. You have a sudden issue and need some help feeding your family? I'm so sorry. Here, let me help you. Here's some bread, milk, rice, peanut butter, cheese, tuna, veggies, fruits, and chicken breasts. Come back next week, and I'll give you some more. That should keep you alive and healthy until you can right your situation.

 

We should deal out welfare benefits with the same mindset that we set educational policy - as long as you meet the minimum standard for health, you're ok.

[Pong Messiah]

Whatever happened to "beggars can't be choosers"?

We started telling everybody they are special and giving them ribbons for breathing.

 

Now they think filet mignon is a basic human right or something. Should have seen it coming.

[Ryn]

 

Just a benefits anecdote: I had a clerk get pregnant and then drop our company's insurance because insurance was free through the state. Our payment was $8 a month ($4 each paycheck).

Was the "free" state insurance better, or was she really that hung up on saving $8?

 

Not at all. If I recall correctly, she was then in a public hospital network.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

Last year I attended a work-related seminar touching on this topic. In 2013, in my state, over 40 percent of it's citizens received healthcare benefits of some form. Almost HALF. Virtually everyone who applied for assistance got it because the state doesn't have enough resources to police it by performing simple income inspection. My state's can't afford to pay for it's own welfare, which is why the federal government subsidizes the debt. When you hear Medicare, you should think of retired people who have worked their whole lives paying into the fund and are now collecting from the Fed. That would be great, except that's not what the Medicare fund is anymore. In my state medicare also has the burden to pay for a portion of the state welfare plan, Medicare paying more.

 

My aunt and uncle are in their eighties, and they've lived in a housing facility for elderly for almost as long as I can remember. Over the last few years, the facility has been repurposed to include low income residents. There's not enough housing to accommodate all these people.

 

The point of these two little stories is this: we can't help everybody. But, at least in my state, the lazy, entitled, system-abusing, useless people are so numerous they are literally robbing from our elderly and kicking them out of their homes. The system is broken. Forty percent of it's citizens shouldn't require assistance.

[Burt]

I won't go into boring details, but I suffered a ~$25,000 loss one year due to med bills, and I was denied assistance. That still sticks in my craw. We were bad off there for a few months.

 

I know people that buy seafood and steaks with their food stamps (i.e., our tax money), and it makes me irate. I desperately needed temporary assistance (<6 months), and they're buying stuff to grill.

 

The problem has been touched on many times in this thread: the system abusers deny help from those legitimately in need.

 

The solution is to reform it, but Democrats rely on low-income voters. It will not be reformed because of this. Not saying that to be politically inflammatory, just seems to be the case.

[Ms. Spam]

I was in that same way, Burt. I'd had some surgery for an ulcer in my stomach lining that had perforated and had medical bills (plus some really bad financial decisions involving credit cards and gullibility concerning who my real friends were). I was working three jobs already to make ends meet. I just couldn't apply for welfare. I wouldn't even think about it. I have a feeling they would have told me I made too much because of the three jobs and the fact that I drove a nicer car and was buying my trailer. Funny thing is I ended up declaring bankruptcy though. That was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I cried during the court proceedings. I fully intended to start out on a good footing and wanted to pay the cards off and finish buying that trailer. I think if I could have gotten that tiny bit of help in the form of EBT and housing assistance as my trailer was not livable after I let a supposed friend live in it while I stayed in an apartment close to where I was student teaching.

 

I don't judge people though. I know at least 75% of the kids in my school get assistance at home. So it's weird I don't really hold that grudge against those parents personally. I just wish they'd pick healthier food options. I always see snacks like Cheetoh's and soda brought out for school functions.

 

What burns my ass is old people. I really really hate them. They are totally wastes on the system. I still can't figure out what they contribute(d) to society that would mean that my money would go to keeping them around.

 

In my Church there are a lot of old people who complain about living on 3K in Social Security and another 2K from a retirement fund a month. Some guy complained he had to cancel his greens fees at the local golf course because he can't afford to play golf any more. He had to sell his golf cart. He's 90 and has been cited by the Fair Oaks Ranch police for reckless golf carting - he charged a woman who was letting her dog poop in a yard with the cart and almost ran over her. I know there are people like Destiny's Mom who really do need help but I live where many retirees are truly comfortable. Even their retirement communities are like resorts.

[Cerina]

When I was pregnant with Noah, my doctor actually encouraged me to apply for Medicaid once we discovered the issue with his feet. He told me that while it was still perfectly likely that he would be ok, the possibility was there for us to have a mountain of medical expenses to come. So even though I had insurance through my job, I did. The people at Health & Human Services then recommended that we also apply for food stamps and WIC for the same reasons (potential of unheard of medical expenses). As it turned out, Noah was fine mostly and his medical expenses would not have ruined us, but we still received well over $600 a month in food between the two for two adults and an infant. We never even came close to spending all of that. In fact, with a newborn, we mostly ate sandwiches for a month or so because neither one of us had the energy to make real food.

 

I can completely see how the temptation is there to over"spend" your free money. But at the same time, who the hell thinks that a family of 3 needs to spend $600 a month on food to survive???

 

We spend roughly $300 now, and we eat pretty well. (Obviously.)

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

dont u even judge what if u need 40oz of st ides to make stir fry for ur childs birthday party

 

u dont even kno their situation how ur able to kick ppl at their lowest is the meanest ever

 

how dare u

Yeah, bum beer and bum wine: breakfast of champions. I forgot.

 

As far as I am concerned I think Gwyneth Paltrow is a bubble head, as I do with most elitist/militant/judgmental/obnoxious/meat-is-murder vegans in general, but I have to side with her on this. https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/gwyneth-paltrow-eaten-alive-social-media-living-29-211604813.html

 

Pretty awesome, actually. And how shrill the entitlement brood is, and how they don't attack the message, they attack her bank account.

[Guest]

The left hates it when poor people are told to eat healthy, the right hates it when children are told to eat healthy.

 

Can someone pass me the jar of mayonnaise? I need a snack.

[Pong Messiah]

Yeah, bum beer and bum wine: breakfast of champions. I forgot.

 

As far as I am concerned I think Gwyneth Paltrow is a bubble head, as I do with most elitist/militant/judgmental/obnoxious/meat-is-murder vegans in general, but I have to side with her on this. https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/gwyneth-paltrow-eaten-alive-social-media-living-29-211604813.html

 

Pretty awesome, actually. And how shrill the entitlement brood is, and how they don't attack the message, they attack her bank account.

We are in the Age of Identity. People whose identities are tied to their perceived victimization are never going to appreciate helpful advice that saves them money and make them feel healthier, no matter how well-intentioned. It takes away from who they are. What a callous bitch!

 

Well... that and she's been a long time favorite target of the shrillists, and in truth, is kinda tone deaf and annoying. Rich white girl playing poor isn't as bad as, say, running around in blackface singing minstrel tunes, but it is a little egotistical and uncomfortable to watch. Still the collective apoplexia says a lot. Don't step on our turf, princess!

[Darth Ender]

I understand limiting some of the items, such as tattoo parlors and liquor stores. However, I have a problem with some of those items being included on the list, primarily swimming. I grew up in a poor household and didn't have air conditioning. My summers were spent at the pool because it was so hot that the pool was the only place I wouldn't be totally miserable. I know I am going to get some backlash over this, but if a single working mom working two jobs can take her kids to the movies one day to escape their problems and feel like an actual human being and family for a few hours, I am okay with this. I am confident that many of the people that would have a problem with this wouldn't bat an eye at the enormous tax subsidies and ludicrous tax write-offs the wealthy are given.

 

The other piece of this is that the vast majority of people that receive some form of government assistance fall into two categories: the elderly and the working poor. The stereotype of someone being on welfare as sitting at home, collecting checks, and mooching off the system is not at all representative of an individual receiving public assistance source.

 

You know what, I take all of that back, because people using welfare to go swimming is the number one thing that is wrong with our welfare system.

[Pong Messiah]

I understand limiting some of the items, such as tattoo parlors and liquor stores. However, I have a problem with some of those items being included on the list, primarily swimming. I grew up in a poor household and didn't have air conditioning. My summers were spent at the pool because it was so hot that the pool was the only place I wouldn't be totally miserable. I know I am going to get some backlash over this, but if a single working mom working two jobs can take her kids to the movies one day to escape their problems and feel like an actual human being and family for a few hours, I am okay with this. I am confident that many of the people that would have a problem with this wouldn't bat an eye at the enormous tax subsidies and ludicrous tax write-offs the wealthy are given.

Tell that single mom to use her benefits to meet the basics, and put a few bucks away for movies/swimming/etc. each month. Her kids are worth it!

 

I also think you are way wrong about people not batting an eye over subsidies/write-offs (and the general tilt of the playing field) that benefit the wealthy. Aside from those who actually reap the benefits -- a very small, elite group -- you're only going to find a smattering of confused right-wing talk-radio heads who aren't at least annoyed by it. Bringing up the sins and excess of the wealthy when discussing benefit fraud and reform is merely distraction. Just 'cause Joe (who you dislike and don't identify with) murders a lot doesn't make it OK for Bob (who you identify or at least sympathize with) to murder a little.

 

[Guest]

I also think you are way wrong about people not batting an eye over subsidies/write-offs (and the general tilt of the playing field) that benefit the wealthy. Aside from those who actually reap the benefits -- a very small, elite group -- you're only going to find a smattering of confused right-wing talk-radio heads who aren't at least annoyed by it..

I think you spend a lot of time in a very liberal bubble. There are plenty of people who are perfectly okay with it.