The Choc Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Im not saying people can't discuss a movie no matter what their opinion. I posted about the first Hobbit for a bit after seeing it. But I didn't languish on it for a freaking decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 The thing is, Star Wars was life changing for some people. It was for me. Not just in a fanboy, obsessed with it sort of way, but in a deeper way. My Star Wars toys were pretty essential to developing my imagination. Empire was the first movie I watched over and over and over and started to study the construction of. Star Wars as a phenomena added a sense of credibility to genre films that, after the 50s, had become considered ghetto and B-movie. I don't think I'd be a creative person working in film if it weren't for Star Wars. So to know it had that sort of influence, and then for it to utterly fail me on almost every level was heartbreaking to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzalcoatl Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 I wanted to see a hero that was the best of the best, who had a character flaw (pride) that was exploited by Palpy. I wanted to see a hero who did everything right almost all of his life. Except at the time where it really mattered, he made the wrong choice, was seduced by the dark side, and consciously made the choice to turn evil because of that character flaw. That sums up my feelings perfectly. Anakin should have been the ideal model of a noble hero, who had one character flaw (pride, anger, impatience, whatever), and in a moment of weakness, this one seemingly minor flaw would prove to be the germ that spawned Darth Vader. But instead of Anakin's fall being the result of one character flaw, Lucas decided to give Anakin pretty much every flaw known to man, which made him look like a giant prick. I think one of the big problems that so many had with the PT was that most people were expecting to get a story of a fallen hero. Instead, Anakin's story was that of a failed hero. Both motifs are abundant in mythology. The latter has the advantage of portraying the OT and PT and mirror images of one another (we see two character aspire to be a hero. One succeeds, whereas the other fails due to his own psychological hang-ups and neurosis), but the former would have made Anakin a more likable character and made his turn more meaningful to the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Im not saying people can't discuss a movie no matter what their opinion. I posted about the first Hobbit for a bit after seeing it. But I didn't languish on it for a freaking decade.Yeah, but that's you. And I'm saying if you wanted to languish on Hobbitses for a decade or more, it's your bizness and I wouldn't hold it against you. Maybe Tolkien is a really big deal to you. And I'd get it -- I still occasionally mope about the "coulda, woulda, shouldas" of films like Star Trek: The Motion Picture. IMO, it's just kinda what you (or not you -- some people, I guess) do when you're invested in something and it doesn't work out for ya. Also, I'd like to refine my earlier response: I don't want to see a Prequel Reboot now (though of course I'd still see it full price in a packed theater with screaming babies and everything), but depending on where the franchise takes us, it's something I might be curious about later, especially if the new mythology changes up the rules and/or points us in different directions and origins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Yeah the whole purpose of this place is conversation. Saying "you shouldn't talk about this" is like going into McDonalds and complaining they're cooking hamburgers in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.CAllen Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I don't think the prequels should have ever existed in the first place. Or any sequels, either. The titling of the first Star Wars as a Episode IV is first and foremost a stylistic device to give the movie a little something of the appearance of the old serials it's inspired by - it's there to imply previous adventures of these characters and to allow for the promise of more to come - rather than to literally say that there are three prior films that have yet to be revealed or that the whole story has really yet to be told. You watch the first Star Wars and it's complete and whole and beautiful. In a very real way everything else that came after is superfluous and I sometimes wonder if we'd all have been happier if the movie was just some underrated 70s cult classic rather than the incredible supersuccessful juggernaut it is. And by "we all" I probably just mean me alone but who knows maybe some others out there really would be better off if everybody in '77 had just gone and seen Smokey and the Bandit instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I wouldn't go so far as to say "should have never existed," cause I be fine with 'em ANH is by far the most important story of the series, and yes, it's the only complete and whole film of the bunch. But nobody will ever convince me ESB shouldn't exist, or that it doesn't expand and enrich the world (galaxy) GL created. Visually, sonically, thematically, emotionally, it is deeper on every level than its predecessor. Damn it, it should exist. Looking back, it's fairly obvious from Jedi and its 99 shiny bows of convenience that Lucas was running out of steam. There are several great moments and no movie with Salacious B. Crumb is irredeemable, but IMO it suffers from being overly cautious (or if you are cynical, calculating) and creative exhaustion. It's also the first film of the bunch to face major second-guessing from the fan base (mostly self-inflicted, I think). No need to go over the Prequels again. OK, you can erase RotJ and the Prequels before heading back to your dimension. I'm keeping Empire, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I'm not saying don't talk about it or anything else. All I'm saying is get over the fact that you didn't like some movies. I'm more just saying people actually seem upset by it still. Which is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Well I dont think people are THAT upset, in that nobody here (I assume) wakes up first thing in the morning and goes "aghhh those ****ing prequels man!! THEY SUCK! IM SO HURT RIGHT NOW" The question was raised.. since the prequels did kinda suck, would you be down for a reboot. People gave their answers and their rationale. I didn't get the impression of gaping wounds, hurt feelings or upset emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen123 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 It's midichlorian heavy.I just hope that any reboot would upgrade them to at least empethreechlorians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doze Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Im not saying people can't discuss a movie no matter what their opinion. I posted about the first Hobbit for a bit after seeing it. But I didn't languish on it for a freaking decade.Pssst dude. You in a forum area the is only for Star Wars. What the hell are we going to talk about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzalcoatl Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Personally, I think the OT worked fine as a self contained story. There was no need for prequels and definitely no need for anything post ROTJ. The OT should have been it. Its not that I think the prequels suck, because I did actually enjoy them, but they somehow took something away from the OT. People are always bringing up the fact that the PT ruined the surprise of ESB, for example. Also, Vader's redemption in the thrown room isn't as powerful a scene for me as it once was. Having not viewed the PT, it is the first scene where we actually see humanity in Vader. Up to that point, he just came across as heartless and devoid of any compassion whatsoever. And then, in the blink of an eye, we suddenly see that there is a human being in there. But with prequels (assuming of coarse that the movies are viewed chronologically) we as the audience have already gotten to know that human being, and it takes something away from ROTJ. The thrown room scene should have remained our first glimpse ever of Anakin Skywalker. So to me, it isn't about whether the prequels sucked or not. Their very existence has some inherent drawbacks. They could have been the best movies ever, and they still would have affected the OT in some negative ways. Before the PT, I remember Lucas saying that the prequels would change the way we view the OT. At the time, it never occurred to me that this might not be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevil Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Love or hate the prequels... It had an audience. It was massively successful. Subsequent releases and TV viewing figures have been massively successful;. The toys and spin off stuff have also been massively successful. Maybe it was just you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 He didn't say he loved or hated them, though. This isn't either/or and financial success isn't necessarily the same as artistic/narrative success. You can totally enjoy the SWPs while acknowledging their flaws or that they take something away from the original films. I feel exactly the same as Quetz on this topic... and yet, I'll probably watch at least one of the prequels at some point this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I always thought it would have been really clever if the PT didn't obviously show us Anakin was Vader. Like, present Anakin as a hero with issues, and present Vader as this mysterious dark, masked killer. Treat them as two different characters and actually stage an event where Anakin vanishes under the pretense of Vader killing him. But that sort of would require Lucas to be a clever and skilled writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doze Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Why would we need to reboot when there is so many different areas to go into. Old Republic/ New Jedi order/ Black Sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Jade Skywalker Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I always thought it would have been really clever if the PT didn't obviously show us Anakin was Vader. Like, present Anakin as a hero with issues, and present Vader as this mysterious dark, masked killer. Treat them as two different characters and actually stage an event where Anakin vanishes under the pretense of Vader killing him. But that sort of would require Lucas to be a clever and skilled writer.Ugh, I remember those ideas about not stating outright that Anakin became Vader. I hated them then and I still hate them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 It would've left the reveal till ESB. Which would be cool. It could have been done well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Jade Skywalker Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Except the preserving the reveal is pointless because everyone already knows Anakin=Vader. The reveal is for Luke, not the audience. You can preserve the reveal by watching the films for the first time in release order, which is the correct way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I've always wanted to see the results of introducing some children to the SW movies in order 1-6, and others to them 4-6, 1-3, just to see how they react and what their subsequent opinions of the films' story are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzalcoatl Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Love or hate the prequels.... It had an audience. It was massively successful. Subsequent releases and TV viewing figures have been massively successful;. The toys and spin-off stuff have also been massively successful. Maybe it was just you?? Again, it isn't about loving or hating the prequels. Its probably hard to gather from my comments in this particular thread, but I do actually like the prequels. I'm just not going to pretend that they don't have their flaws. I recently had a SW marathon, and the prequels have aged relatively well for me. But as fond as I am of the PT, it has always been difficult for me to buy it as the "real" backstory of Anakin's transformation into Vader, and part of me has always wanted to see a rebooted backstory that was more in line with events and sensibilities (Anakin's portrayal as a fallen hero, for example) that was alluded to in the OT. I started this thread because I was curious if anyone else felt the same way. It had nothing to do with the quality of the PT that we actually got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Darth Hunter Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Except the preserving the reveal is pointless because everyone already knows Anakin=Vader. The reveal is for Luke, not the audience. You can preserve the reveal by watching the films for the first time in release order, which is the correct way. Even that has become pointless. I know quite a few people who have never seen a Star Wars film. They can easily get confused between Star Wars and Star Trek. Yet they all know Anakin is Vader and he is Luke and Leia's father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transducer X Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 TBH, before the Lucasfilm/Disney deal, I felt certain that the original Star Wars would be remade some time in the next 10 years, maybe 2017 or something. I'm pretty glad that that will now likely never come to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I've always wanted to see the results of introducing some children to the SW movies in order 1-6, and others to them 4-6, 1-3, just to see how they react and what their subsequent opinions of the films' story are. i was going to try 4-6, 1-3 with my kid. I was waiting for him to be old enough. Then one day I came home and my mom had turned on Return of the Jedi in the middle as she found it channel surfing. Two years later my could could care less about the movies and was only interested in The Clone Wars cartoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Most kids like Star Wars cause there are like space ships and lightsabres and laser fights. I'd say if you want to show a kid one of the movies to get them to like Star Wars, Jedi could be the best one. I love A New Hope so this isn't a critique but to alot of kids there just isn't enough action in it for long periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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