Nuclear deals with Iran

[RelentlessMalice]

Plenty Fozzie! Great point. The ideology is the issue and not money.

[pavonis]

This deal is good for preventing nuclear weapon proliferation. Producing nuclear reactor-grade materials is much different than producing nuclear weapon-grade materials. It is easy for experts to tell the difference, and the deal has hobbled much of the production capacity for even reactor-grade uranium and plutonium. Iranian-produced nuclear weapons are not a prospect for the near future; they'll barely be able to get their homegrown reactors running. Hell, we should be building and developing more nuclear reactors here. Why is Iran outdoing us on that front?

[Odine]

Iran shouldn't get iPhones until they get a religious reformation. If you haven't self-evolved passed the 1500s so then you shouldn't enjoy technology from 2015 sorry.

Neither should your backward ass Christian society either by that rationale. You still buy into a 2000 year old fairy story as a society at large. Probably shouldn't be allowed iPhones either.

[Evolence]

I really don't care if Iran gets a nuke or bombs Israel. It should make for some entertaining headlines.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

 

Iran shouldn't get iPhones until they get a religious reformation. If you haven't self-evolved passed the 1500s so then you shouldn't enjoy technology from 2015 sorry.

Neither should your backward ass Christian society either by that rationale. You still buy into a 2000 year old fairy story as a society at large. Probably shouldn't be allowed iPhones either.

My rationale is that my backward ass Christian theology doesn't condone murder to infidels. The religious crazies in my society are for the most part harmless and just make fools of themselves. Plus they and are entertaining. Their religious crazies cut the heads off people and blow up buildings. Ours are allowed to speak their mind, but have no real power. Theirs suppress the voices of their own people and rule by fear. So when I say they need a reformation, I mean something fundamental has to change about the way they view the rest of the world. Until that happens, the violence will never end. Our 2000 year old farytale has a happy ending. Their farytale is a real life nightmare.

[Odine]

I knew what you meant. I was sort of being facetious. Sort of. But I'd wager that the average muslim in Iran would have the same defence of their religion as the one you just offered for your own. I expect they believe something along the lines of: "Christians condone murder of infidels, so long as it's a bomb dropped from an unmanned drone so they are able to distance themselves from it. Absolve themselves of any perceived guilt. At least we are not afraid to get our hands dirty" or some such rationale. Each is as mad as the other in my eyes.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

Okay, Chalupa. A couple of points:

 

I don't see how Obama's circumventing Congress. It's just an agreement. I believe that he had to come home to us, and sell it as a good deal to the American People and Congress. I feel that this maybe something Obama was angling towards for a while with Iran as his tone to Israel has been very different for years than previous administrations as well as Bergdahl's release (and he's going to be court martialed!).

 

It is circumventing Congress because it is setting foreign policy and binding the US to an agreement with Iran...at least as long as Obama is in office, and depending on if the next president is a democrat or not, that is a potential for another 8 years, at minimum. Plus, verbiage in the agreement continuously says 15 years, giving the impression that this is basically as treaty all in but name. When the treaty clause was included in the constitution, the intent was to prevent either Congress or the President from acting unilaterally when making agreements with foreign powers. This defeats the spirit of that law.

 

 

As far as negotiating with terrorists we could be considered terrorists right back at Iran with all kinds of examples even down to cyber hacks to people going illegally across it's borders to funding other people who turn out to be just as bad. I am not trying to defend Iran but I do know people who have identified themselves as Persian to keep American's from freaking out on them that would like to have a chance to go back to Iran and visit family they have not seen for decades. One of the few people I still count as a friend from my high school days was from Iran. I went to high school with her in Tucson. There are also several families here in San Antonio who are from Iran.

Ah yes, moral equivalency. One nation's hero is another nation's terrorist. But, what exactly does people of Iranian descent living in the US identifying themselves as Persian have to do with this un-treaty, though? And, by the way, this is as much as about the President once again setting a bad precedent with unilateral action without consent of either Congress or the people, as it is about making an agreement that is a treaty all in but name. The Hacks the US has done with the Iranian government was actually to delay nuclear research, something the international community, not just the US, is fearful of, when it comes to the Iranian government.

 

 

Secondly, my point about Cuba and Iran economically speaking was more directed towards a change in policy that will help lift the people past a third world presence. Iran has very intelligent people living in a very suppressive regime. They will have more access to things and more purchasing power which drives change. While not the same situation Capitalism is probably going to break the current regimes because people want to be able to have light at night, buy things that work for them and they're willing to give up the ideas of religion and state so they can have these things.

The problem with that logic is economic prosperity does not ALWAYS equal freedom for its people. In order do to have that, the nation in question must first be a democratically elected representative republic. China's economy is about to surpass the US economy, and in some aspects, already has. But ask the average Chinese citizen how free they feel. Or how about pre-WW2 Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy? Or pre-Gulf War Iraq? Or women in Saudi Arabia? And in fact, relative to much of the world, Iran at present has a pretty strong economy, but how free are they?

 

Capitalism and economic prosperity alone doesn't break regimes. It can go a long way to do so, sure, but not always. In fact, due to many other factors, it really only work on a case by case basis.

[Pong Messiah]

I don't buy the whole "money will change them!" argument.

 

How many Islamist terrorists are wealthy, Western educated men?

You aren't going go change a fanatic with money. All more money does is increase their capacity for doing fanatical things.

 

I think the idea is to affect the lifestyle and perception of normal people who make up the bulk of the population. The ones who are all vaguely "fuck America! Disintegrate Israel" who say it without any feeling.

[Ms. Spam]

well they're still chanting "DEATH TO AMERICA" but it is with less heartiness. The only way to effect change is to make the people who actually live there do something about their state of being.

 

I think nukes are scary but really I think Iran is more stable then say North Korea. Not by much.

[RelentlessMalice]

The difference between North Korea and Iran is that we can starve out North Korea with resources they will not be able to replenish.

 

Iran on the other hand is much larger and will fight for the long haul with no results, an example of this would be the Iran and Iraq war that lasted 8 years.

[Pong Messiah]

OK, so what would Emperor Pigfeet do?

[monkeygirl]

Monkeygirl yes it is talking to them like a 10 year old and that is because they deserve to be treated that way when they

 

A. Sponsor terrorism

 

B. They are an arse backward theocracy.

 

C. They will destabilize the rest of the region.

 

Of all the various forms of energy Iran could use they pick the one that would pave the way for them to have a nuclear weapon. Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon is not what the rest of the world needs. Too risky and if that means we treat them as a child then so be it.

You're missing my point; how EFFECTIVE do you think talking to Iran like they're bratty children might be? And where the fuck do we get off?

[Pong Messiah]

And where the **** do we get off?

Get a grip.

 

Until Iran gets a functional and deliverable nuke, America can talk to them how it wants, sister!

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

 

And where the **** do we get off?

Get a grip.

 

 

 

You could have stopped there and still been accurate.

[Pong Messiah]

omg i see a dick joke

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

And a that's what she said joke, too.