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Civil Rights 2.0?


Burt
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I hope it is due to the fact that the last generation of well-educated rich conservative old white dude politicians are starting to kick the bucket make one big last push to reclaim American now that a black President has brought Hell to Earth.

 

I say DIE FASTER. In a couple more decades your going to have a Republican party that leans left socially, Democrats that find a way to loop in the fringe liberals and maybe a Libertarian party with more numbers.

seems that hate is alive and well - right after we all perish to CO2 pollution this will end!?!?!/

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Holy crap Justus, I could probably write 10,000 words on what you just posted. As it is, I'll try to keep it brief. And most likely fail.

 

"Hyperbolic sentiments" as you call them are the stock-in-trade of political discourse these days. I would hope that fewer and fewer of us are taking both super conservative and ultra progressive rhetoric at face value as serious policy proposal these days. It's WAY more profitable and politically rewarding to preach to whatever gerrymandered choir you happen to sing with these days than to actually try to check your beliefs against anything manifestly part of the real world. Hence conservative demagogues that suggest that Obama is the anti-Christ, and their progressive counterparts who equate "casual glances with assault." This kind of rubbish flies because there's NO WAY it's ever going to make it into the actual halls of power. It's all just a shadow play.

 

Think about it. Some published, tenured fossil in a black studies or women's studies department, who can charge hundreds if not thousands for speaking engagements, with a revolving door staff of unpaid undergraduates to do their research for them - are going to call themselves "oppressed!" They are going to do this with a straight face. That's not just silly, that's a Monty Python skit in the making. Comparably ridiculous to eight digit net worth televangelists comparing their own situations to the plight of Christians being fed to the lions in the Coliseum for Emperor Nero's amusement ... because somebody said "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas."

 

Come on! The last people who want the "hegemonic structure of white colonial imperialist patriarchy" to collapse FOR REAL are the rad-fems and the La-Raza types. And sure as hell not people who actually LIVE in the barrios and ghettos of the nation, who would just look at you funny and then rob you if you quoted some anti-racist blog at them. Kind of like the Judean People's Front actually coming up with a fairly long list of good answers when they ask themselves "what has Rome ever done for us?" - the Kabuki Theatre "radicals" in academia and the blogosphere rely on the very society they always "deconstruct" to keep themselves in business. Who would fund their latest study otherwise?

 

I don't think it's actually completely fraudulent. I have little doubt that they're all sincere about really wanting social justice - or traditional values as the case may be. So long as it's not actually hurting them. Kind of like watching Star Wars, you get the excitement and drama of a rebellion against an oppressive empire without actually having to worry about a death squad knocking on your door in the dead of night because you said something "El Presidente" doesn't like. It's SAFE rebellion. Plus you get to shame people you don't like and make yourself look like a champion of the underclasses from behind the gravitas of peer review and social justice advocacy. And your taxes won't even go up. The actual plight of the poor won't improve any, but you'll get to feel not quite so guilty of your relative privilege so long as you can routinely call out the privilege of others. Especially if those "others" are competing for the same grant money you are.

 

Kind of like Tea Partiers who would be the first to feel the pangs of hunger were the welfare state to be truly rolled back, the first people to go in a real People's Republic would be the hipster study hall radicals who somehow forget how objectifying the male gaze is when it comes from the dude they're gettin' the 'D' from. That type of talk is great fun - trolling MRAs and exploiting the sexual insecurities of young males for fun and profit - that's why they've been doing it for decades now. Andrea Dworkin (may she R.I.P) anyone? It never changes anything. If moralizing against the evils of sex actually stopped anybody from doing it, we'd have left the world to the scavengers due to lack of reproduction by the time western Rome collapsed.

 

So Justus, you know what? After decades of analyzing this stuff and coming up with one sort of "doomsday scenario" after another that would no doubt unfold if the Nation of Islam kept on or the SCUM Manifesto remained in print (much as liberals are so quick to predict the immanent coming of the Republic of Gilead if Westboro Baptist aren't stopped in their tracks NOW) , I've come to the realization that it's all just a bunch of comedic melodrama and the thing to do about it is just sit back and laugh. If fiddling is the only thing people are going to do whilst Rome burns, you might as well at least take it easy and try to enjoy the music.

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It is fine to have biases. Everyone has them. What is important is that we become aware of our implicit biases and not act upon them. (If you believe you are free of biases, I recommend you start here). The same goes for privilege. It is not my fault that I was born middle class, white, heterosexual, able-bodied, and male. I shouldn't feel guilty for that. However, it is important to acknowledge that being born with these traits are likely to give me a leg up in life in the society and culture in which I live more than a poor, black, homosexual, handicapped, female. I am not saying being born one way is better than another.

 

I think the current movement is trying to help people become aware of their biases and privilege. This is great, but all too often many of the more fervent members do this by telling everyone they are racist. These members should know above all else that everyone has a different starting point and perspective on life. Going around shaming people for traits they are born with is going to turn people off. These individuals are making explicit judgments about people based on traits people are born with.

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Holy crap Justus, I could probably write 10,000 words on what you just posted. As it is, I'll try to keep it brief. And most likely fail.

 

"Hyperbolic sentiments" as you call them are the stock-in-trade of political discourse these days. I would hope that fewer and fewer of us are taking both super conservative and ultra progressive rhetoric at face value as serious policy proposal these days. It's WAY more profitable and politically rewarding to preach to whatever gerrymandered choir you happen to sing with these days than to actually try to check your beliefs against anything manifestly part of the real world. Hence conservative demagogues that suggest that Obama is the anti-Christ, and their progressive counterparts who equate "casual glances with assault." This kind of rubbish flies because there's NO WAY it's ever going to make it into the actual halls of power. It's all just a shadow play.

 

Think about it. Some published, tenured fossil in a black studies or women's studies department, who can charge hundreds if not thousands for speaking engagements, with a revolving door staff of unpaid undergraduates to do their research for them - are going to call themselves "oppressed!" They are going to do this with a straight face. That's not just silly, that's a Monty Python skit in the making. Comparably ridiculous to eight digit net worth televangelists comparing their own situations to the plight of Christians being fed to the lions in the Coliseum for Emperor Nero's amusement ... because somebody said "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas."

 

Come on! The last people who want the "hegemonic structure of white colonial imperialist patriarchy" to collapse FOR REAL are the rad-fems and the La-Raza types. And sure as hell not people who actually LIVE in the barrios and ghettos of the nation, who would just look at you funny and then rob you if you quoted some anti-racist blog at them. Kind of like the Judean People's Front actually coming up with a fairly long list of good answers when they ask themselves "what has Rome ever done for us?" - the Kabuki Theatre "radicals" in academia and the blogosphere rely on the very society they always "deconstruct" to keep themselves in business. Who would fund their latest study otherwise?

 

I don't think it's actually completely fraudulent. I have little doubt that they're all sincere about really wanting social justice - or traditional values as the case may be. So long as it's not actually hurting them. Kind of like watching Star Wars, you get the excitement and drama of a rebellion against an oppressive empire without actually having to worry about a death squad knocking on your door in the dead of night because you said something "El Presidente" doesn't like. It's SAFE rebellion. Plus you get to shame people you don't like and make yourself look like a champion of the underclasses from behind the gravitas of peer review and social justice advocacy. And your taxes won't even go up. The actual plight of the poor won't improve any, but you'll get to feel not quite so guilty of your relative privilege so long as you can routinely call out the privilege of others. Especially if those "others" are competing for the same grant money you are.

 

Kind of like Tea Partiers who would be the first to feel the pangs of hunger were the welfare state to be truly rolled back, the first people to go in a real People's Republic would be the hipster study hall radicals who somehow forget how objectifying the male gaze is when it comes from the dude they're gettin' the 'D' from. That type of talk is great fun - trolling MRAs and exploiting the sexual insecurities of young males for fun and profit - that's why they've been doing it for decades now. Andrea Dworkin (may she R.I.P) anyone? It never changes anything. If moralizing against the evils of sex actually stopped anybody from doing it, we'd have left the world to the scavengers due to lack of reproduction by the time western Rome collapsed.

 

So Justus, you know what? After decades of analyzing this stuff and coming up with one sort of "doomsday scenario" after another that would no doubt unfold if the Nation of Islam kept on or the SCUM Manifesto remained in print (much as liberals are so quick to predict the immanent coming of the Republic of Gilead if Westboro Baptist aren't stopped in their tracks NOW) , I've come to the realization that it's all just a bunch of comedic melodrama and the thing to do about it is just sit back and laugh. If fiddling is the only thing people are going to do whilst Rome burns, you might as well at least take it easy and try to enjoy the music.

*drops mic*

 

*gives middle finger to crowd*

 

*walks off stage*

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Perhaps. I'd say my critique is a little more general though. Yours is at least 90% focused on feminism.

Mainly because where I'm from, there's not much of a racial divide so gender's much more up-front. Religion is worth keeping an eye on, though. Monotheism seems to fast be becoming the major flashpoint of right vs left thinking, at least in my neck of the woods. What ALL of the progressives I know have in common, whatever else may divide them, is that Christianity is the worst thing ever. Even if they're staunch atheists and don't care for ANY religion, Jesus freaks get under their skin in a way none of the others do. All of the conservatives I know feel the same way about Islam, and speak as though an all out war against the entire Islamic faith is actually something that's feasible and winnable. And it's the most important thing to both sides.

 

I hope it is due to the fact that the last generation of well-educated rich conservative old white dude politicians are starting to kick the bucket make one big last push to reclaim American now that a black President has brought Hell to Earth.

Now having said all that I have above, Justus does make a good point, Driver. There's LOTS not to like about conservative Republicans and tea baggers. But a lot of progressive blogs I see choose to highlight the fact that they're rich old white christian males. I get it ... how could they? How do they look at themselves in the mirror, these penis weilding white devils. How do they live with themselves? Nothing to do with actual policy, apparently.

 

I know, I know ... it's more about the wealth and power trying to wall itself off from the rest of society instead of using what they have for the greater good. It's not like any but a handful, perhaps, of progressive leftists are wondering if we can just get on with the "final solution" to the white male or Christian population, already.

 

Still and all, think about how such rhetoric comes across to those not initiated into the progressive faith. At the very least, they make it exponentially easier for the right wing to steal the white working class support the liberal democrats consider themselves so entitled to. As it is, most SJWs flip out when I suggest this to them, screaming and carrying on about "cry babies" "white male tears" "it's not the job of oppressed peoples to educate stupid people like you about the realities of oppression" and so on. And that's fine. I suppose it's not my job to educate them on how this kind of self righteous blather drives away potential allies and helps PRESERVE the very Christian right they and I would like to see die, either. Two camps of self righteous zealots feeding off their hatred of one another. They deserve each other.

 

On a somewhat related note, progressive angsting over working class white males supporting conservative politicians needs to die (not saying anyone here specifically is doing this). It's not that this is rational or constructive behavior to engage in on the poor white's part. Not at all. But the progressives have no one to blame but themselves for the loss of this voting bloc. These people were populists, labourites, progressives and socialists for generations. What the hell happened?

 

Fact is, when you blame the skin color he was born with and the country he's proud of for the very real attrocities of Slavery and native genocide, at the same time as you attack racism, you're going to come across as a didactic hypocrite. If you attack his gender and heterosexuality and blame it for the inequality of women, gloating over his redundency before the superior female, his lonelines and sexual frustration at the same time as you also attack the religion he believes in for its own prudish, repressive, guilt based morality, you're really just doing Rush Limbaugh's job for him. And being pro labor in spite of all this doesn't cut it. What has the western left done for the unions lately?

 

Progressive attitudes towards the white male working class kind of remind me of the proverbial "nice guy" who whines and rants because the hot cheerleaders put out for the boorish foot ball players instead of himself. On a certain level, yeah, they're right. Chicks (the electorate) would be better off with a nice guy (leftist government) rather than some macho jock (conservatives). The problem isn't that our cheerleaders and electorates are necessarily stupid (though they can be and often are). It's that they can smell the sense of ENTITLEMENT from a mile off, and are quite congizent of how ongoing rejection has made these "nice guys" and progressives not quite so nice. In fact, it's quite a festering abscess of bitterness and resentment not at all far below the surface. And no one can be blamed for wanting to avoid that. It would behoove nice guy progressives to consider the fact that projecting strength and confidence and leaving the GUILT at home can improve one's prospects at both the singles bar AND the polls. Not coming across as such sexless, philistine robots would also help.

 

I say DIE FASTER. In a couple more decades your going to have a Republican party that leans left socially, Democrats that find a way to loop in the fringe liberals and maybe a Libertarian party with more numbers.

This is a seperate matter, but I see the parties eventually gravitating towards a communitarian vs libertarian split. Come 2040, or so, perhaps a Republican party that's more pro big business and with the educated secular liberals, feminists and LGBT types vs an ecumenical Democratic party that deals more with ethnic communities - hispanics especially but also blacks, asians (maybe) and so on with a blend of somewhat socially moderate or even conservative rhetoric and populist economics? Or vice versa? White Christian dudes and poor women being swing votes based on income and race respectively?
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1. Holy crap Justus, I could probably write 10,000 words on what you just posted. As it is, I'll try to keep it brief. And most likely fail.

 

"Hyperbolic sentiments" as you call them are the stock-in-trade of political discourse these days. I would hope that fewer and fewer of us are taking both super conservative and ultra progressive rhetoric at face value as serious policy proposal these days. It's WAY more profitable and politically rewarding to preach to whatever gerrymandered choir you happen to sing with these days than to actually try to check your beliefs against anything manifestly part of the real world. Hence conservative demagogues that suggest that Obama is the anti-Christ, and their progressive counterparts who equate "casual glances with assault." This kind of rubbish flies because there's NO WAY it's ever going to make it into the actual halls of power. It's all just a shadow play.

 

Think about it. Some published, tenured fossil in a black studies or women's studies department, who can charge hundreds if not thousands for speaking engagements, with a revolving door staff of unpaid undergraduates to do their research for them - are going to call themselves "oppressed!" They are going to do this with a straight face. That's not just silly, that's a Monty Python skit in the making.

 

 

 

2. Come on! The last people who want the "hegemonic structure of white colonial imperialist patriarchy" to collapse FOR REAL are the rad-fems and the La-Raza types. And sure as hell not people who actually LIVE in the barrios and ghettos of the nation,...

 

 

3. Kind of like Tea Partiers who would be the first to feel the pangs of hunger were the welfare state to be truly rolled back..

 

4.So Justus, you know what? After decades of analyzing this stuff and coming up with one sort of "doomsday scenario" after another that would no doubt unfold if the Nation of Islam kept on or the SCUM Manifesto remained in print (much as liberals are so quick to predict the immanent coming of the Republic of Gilead if Westboro Baptist aren't stopped in their tracks NOW) , I've come to the realization that it's all just a bunch of comedic melodrama and the thing to do about it is just sit back and laugh. If fiddling is the only thing people are going to do whilst Rome burns, you might as well at least take it easy and try to enjoy the music.

I appreciate your interesting reply, however...

 

1. Not necessarily, as it happens in stages. For example, In the present day, we see Republicans who champion voter ID laws, then target heavy minority and/or poor areas considered most likely to vote for a Democrat. Manipulating the vote based on such specific demographics is--as moaned by critics on the left---reminiscent of other vote-blocking tactics seen a half century ago.

 

When Democratic politicians cartwheeled to their feet in protest, it was more than an honest first response about alleged violations to an estimated (by some sources) 23 million voters. They reacted because the voter ID scheme has real world potential to threaten a universe of agendas, which have moved beyond the barking ideologues in academia. Democrats / left in general see such laws as having a strengthening appeal to the self-described ostracized electorate long pissed by the left's seemingly sweeping changes to their country.

 

On that note, the conservative media come off as circle-jerking jokes with their bullhorn-ing through Cruz, the Tea Party, Citizens United, etc., or the weekly hanging of the Obama/socialist/corrupt liberal media piñata, but they're not operating in a vacuum; their success comes from playing a growing real anger on the streets arguably not seen in at least 40 years.

 

2. You would be incorrect, If you were close to the Mexican political/social hotbed in the U.S. southwest over the decades, you would have witnessed the build up of La Raza (and splinter groups like MEChA) into an effective, unabashedly hostile, often racist political force, with an influence across economic/educational levels rising as fast as the immigrant population they foster. While some might think, "are they crazy? this cannot go anywhere--they still need non-Latino voters and legislators to..." they forget the sizable number of guilt-ridden non-Latinos who are--in fact--pushing legislation with origins in organizations such as La Raza, while supported by politically-motivated "do-gooders" (or so they believe) such as the president.

 

3. ...and yet, they do habitually vote for policies that hurt the poor among them--all thanks to a 50 year lie that welfare was designed to be a big, fat federal piggy/food bank for one race. It is more important to fight the Great Evil Minority Loving Programs than avoid hurting themselves themselves with their own vote. Real consequence, not mere ideology.

 

4. Oh, each person can sit back and observe the lunacy...until their issue moves to the front of the line, then its time for "action NOW NOW NOW!!" and/or countdown to disaster and/or the "fundemental change of the U.S". *ahem*

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[verbose] The Kurgan [verbose /off] interesting reading - well written - and obviously deeply thought out points -- just long !!!

I know. I do apologize. I have begun each post with the intention of keeping it reasonably brief. I've bombed in this thread. Sorry.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Wow, these are the longest posts, besides CMs tl;dr's in between hibernations that I've seen in the Lyceum in a loooooonnng time. I remember those days. Good to see, actually. :thumbsup:

 

I'd participate, but I've grown old, cynical, and generally indifferent about just about everything, and realized the pointlessness of my own posts,anymore. But carry on, guys. I like the readings, though!

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[verbose] The Kurgan [verbose /off] interesting reading - well written - and obviously deeply thought out points -- just long !!!

I know. I do apologize. I have begun each post with the intention of keeping it reasonably brief. I've bombed in this thread. Sorry.

 

Bombs away - !!! :yes:

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I was in southeast Oklahoma (aka Little Dixie) today doing wetland assessments, and a pickup pulls up to ask what we're doing. That's par for the course, and it always ends up in this one-sided discussion that wastes my time. It's a minor annoyance, but it's expected. The conversation steers towards "screw Obama" and again, not unexpected, but then he says, "Hey, we got plenty of trees for him and the rest of them *points to trees*. We can just tie their hands behind their back, cut their wrists and say it was suicide. That's how we do it around here."

 

I smiled and nodded because they could just do the same to me, but I walked away and wished them a good day. Sometimes I just forget how bad the mountain folks can be. It's been a few years since I've spent significant time in the mountains of SE Oklahoma. Thank goodness for conceal carry pistols.

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It's really disturbing that folks like that are able to drive vehicles, let alone reproduce.

 

Haven't done a big road trip/tour in awhile, so I don't know if it is still the case (lots of small towns are going through changes), but there used to be three types of small towns in my state:

 

Artist Colonies

Tourist Traps

Hillbilly Hellholes

 

The first two places were fine. Artsy places were maybe a bit pretentious and sad, and the touristy places overrated and too expensive, but they were still nice places to visit. The Hillbilly zones, on the other hand.... they were like stepping through a magical portal into another universe. Everything looked normal -- the sun still came out, the birds still sang, flowers bloomed -- but oh man, those ****ing people. And I totally get what you are saying about just smiling and walking away when they unpleasantly engage. It's not the gun rack, it's those nightmare knives, man.

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I was in southeast Oklahoma (aka Little Dixie) today doing wetland assessments, and a pickup pulls up to ask what we're doing. That's par for the course, and it always ends up in this one-sided discussion that wastes my time. It's a minor annoyance, but it's expected. The conversation steers towards "screw Obama" and again, not unexpected, but then he says, "Hey, we got plenty of trees for him and the rest of them *points to trees*. We can just tie their hands behind their back, cut their wrists and say it was suicide. That's how we do it around here."

 

I smiled and nodded because they could just do the same to me, but I walked away and wished them a good day. Sometimes I just forget how bad the mountain folks can be. It's been a few years since I've spent significant time in the mountains of SE Oklahoma. Thank goodness for conceal carry pistols.

No surprise. Funny thing is, you have certain pundits on the left who (in full lie mode) swore racism was brought to its knees when Obama took office (celebrating like that damn Ewok village scene in Return of the Jedi), while some on the right--in an attempt to silence any honest recognition of / action against racism--also swore racism dies because Obama was elected. Different sides, both pushing BS.

 

I find it funny when those thinking "everything is changing" are shocked by stories like yours. All I can say is "what the--" to it all. Racial hatred was and remains an irrevocably bonded part of the American story, that threads every part of national life.

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What's kind of funny is they were exactly what you all are probably picturing: overweight, unkempt, missing teeth.

 

Pong, I've done field work in all 77 of Oklahoma counties, and it seems that 60-75% of the towns with populations less than 5000 are hillbilly hellholes. I know how to blend in, but there's still the occasional *record-scratch* when I go into a cafe. My job is environmental assessment, but I never say that. "Oh, I'm just out here surveying."

 

Darth Ender, ha, yeah, two "mountain" ranges in OK (top out at 2500 feet). SE OK is basically Appalachia in appearance and culture.

 

I'm sure there are black neighborhoods I could drive in and get similar treatment, but I have literally no reason to visit those neighborhoods after dark. Geographically, those places are little pockets in larger cities, whereas there are large swaths of the state that a black person shouldn't be caught alone in. I couldn't help but think about one of the other environmental scientists (who is black) and whether or not I want to mention they should be aware of this. That person grew up in the city and probably doesn't understand how bad rural OK can be, but it's kind of an awkward subject to broach.

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