DANA-kin Skywalker Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 attention single women who have bad luck in relationships: Your married men coworkers have no interest in being your "work husband". Go away before you go and jeapordize someone's marriage because you can't seem to get enough validation in your own love life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I wish that were true. I know too many guys at work with work wives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 So how do you guys define "work wives"? All the men I work with have stay-at-home wives, and some of them have admitted their wives are uncomfortable about me, for some reason. I don't hang out with them outside of work, we occasionally grab a coffee from the on-site coffee shop, and we talk about our families and stuff. Definitely nothing untoward but apparently the simple fact that I have a vagina is discomforting. Is it really that hard for men to work with women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Spam Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Yes. In your profession it is scary. If you were a teacher or nurse it would totally be different. People are weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I mean men who have pseudo-dating relationships, spend half the day talking to or IMing each other and generally you can't tell if they're a couple or not if you don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Because they're inappropriate with each other, or because it's hard to imagine a man and a woman with a purely platonic relationship? I've had many relationships with female cowokers that are exactly what you just described, but nobody ever though we were lesbianing it up or anything (that I know of.) But I've had the same reactions from others about my relationships with males. It's really hard for a male/female friendship to endure once one of them is in a serious relationship. At work or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Because the relationship is inappropriate and they act like lovers. I have a woman at work that I eat lunch with often, but that's pretty much the extent of our relationship. She doesn't bring me cookies or come and sit on my desk or visit me 10+ times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Is it really that hard for men to work with women?The better question to ask would be 'is it really hard for women to be married to a man who works with women?' or vice versa, and I'd say yes it can, it can create jealousy if the two coworkers get along well and one of them happens to be single. Appearances can harbor resentment. It can be downright hazardous if the married couple just happen to be going through a tough time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 I've had many relationships with female cowokers that are exactly what you just described, but nobody ever though we were lesbianing it up or anything (that I know of.) But I've had the same reactions from others about my relationships with males. It's really hard for a male/female friendship to endure once one of them is in a serious relationship. At work or not. Are you a lesbian? Because if you're not, then of course you wouldn't get that reaction by others! And yes, I agree it can be difficult for male/female relationships, especially at work since so much time is spent together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Because the relationship is inappropriate and they act like lovers.I have a woman at work that I eat lunch with often, but that's pretty much the extent of our relationship. She doesn't bring me cookies or come and sit on my desk or visit me 10+ times a day.To play devils advocate, if she did started bringing you cookies and visit you constantly how would you handle it? I ask because I'm in a similar predicament. My coworker texts me way too often and with borderline inappropriate things. Examples: "so are you going to buy us leftover candy? ;)" (from valentines day). "are you mad at me? You look sad today." "wanna see a movie Saturday?". (guess what movie she's thinking about-probably not kingsmen). I've reminded her every time I'm married and not interested. I've gone so far as to tell her we can't talk to each other anymore. She's pissed at me, but I'm fine with that because I'm being forced to choose between my friendship with her and my marriage, since I can't have both. I'm worried my wife will find out about this drama and ruin our marriage anyways thinking I invited this somehow. ****ing hell its probably easier if I just ****ing quit my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I was in that situation once. It was before I got married, but we were engaged. Didn't help that our boss was evil, so we were pushed together more and more. I told my now wide immediately. I distanced myself from the coworker and eventually had to go the same route you did. Shortly after, I left and got a new job. We're Facebook friends who have no other communication now and, yeah, I miss the friendship but it can't be real friendship if one person doesn't want it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I really don't get this. Baking cookies for someone and seeing a movie together = lovers? Again, both are perfectly fine if I did them for/with another female, but all of a sudden I couldn't with a man? Because...why? Because our genitals don't match? Exactly what sort of close activities can two members of the opposite sex engage in that do not constitute a sexual or romantic relationship? Where is that line? What sort of objects could I buy/make/give to a man that do not suggest something more than friendship? I've never bought into the idea that men and women can't be friends, and I seriously don't understand the logic behind that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 I really don't get this. Baking cookies for someone and seeing a movie together = lovers? Again, both are perfectly fine if I did them for/with another female, but all of a sudden I couldn't with a man? Because...why? Because our genitals don't match? ...because there's potential for attraction that's not present with straight girls hanging out! Maybe not enough attraction to act upon, but it doesn't matter. Jealousy can rear it's ugly head. If you love someone and trust your spouse, then they should love you enough back to avoid situations that could make the other uncomfortable. So you create a boundary with your platonic friends and they should respect that line. If your 'friend' can't do that, then it's over, because they want more than just friendship. There's no singular "Do this, Don't Do That" list with "Romantic" on one side and "Friendship" on the other. There's no quantifiable number of texts/day that are acceptable. Its not that simple. You just have to figure it out. It's chess not checkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 If your spouse really truly trusts you, then why would hanging out with another human being make them uncomfortable? I get this a lot actually. "You're ok with your husband going out for drinks with another woman?" "You let your husband take another girl to a party?!" And in reverse..."does your husband know you're texting another guy?" "Your husband lets you spend the night at another man's house??" The answer is "yes" to all of the above. I don't police my husband's friendships. He's a big boy and allowed to be friends with whomever he wants. I do not control him. I do, however, trust that he has full control over his sexual actions. Even if he were to develop a physical attraction to another female (which may have happened several times over already), I know he would not act upon it because his relationship with me reigns supreme, and that's the one I know he doesn't ever want to jeopardize. And, in return, he affords me the same level of respect and trust. My vagina doesn't control me any more than his penis controls him. People make jokes all the time about "thinking with the little brain and not the big one", and while it may be true, it doesn't absolve one of their actions. To suggest anything else is insulting. I find the entire notion that one needs to control their spouse's exposure to the opposite sex (or same sex if that's the case) as ludicrous as the notion that women should not wear yoga pants to avoid temping men. As if the thoughts and actions of someone else are somehow under our control? How little self-control do we really think others have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 My snarky boss has made comments about myself and another co-worker (who is male) because we work together most days. There is only one other person on our side of the work schedule and he has the worst time management skills (coupled with a messiah complex) so neither of us has the patience to wait around for him to be ready to get some work done. Boss lady has straight up said to someone on the crew that she thinks we are having a fling because we always work together. Nevermind the fact that we've known each other since we went to high school and were friends even before we started working for the same park district. I also *surprise* hang out with his wife when I'm not working! Some people just can't handle men and women being friends- they HAVE to see something sexual, which is more of a commentary on them than it is on the people they are gossiping about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 In the past, especially undergrad, I was good friends with a few women. A few of my field technicians were women for some field studies. I hired the best person for the job, and 2 out of 3 times those people were women. Ultimately, I would never get in a situation like that again. The only two people that truly know it was benign are me and the field technician, and I just don't want to deal with that suspicion. It's a weird way to develop a gender bias in the workplace, but like you said, people talk. No one ever said anything, but I just wanted to avoid getting a reputation like that. I consider myself fairly progressive, but platonic friendships with potential sexual mates have a natural ceiling. I think it's just human nature. Getting above that ceiling by confiding intimate details, etc. gets dicey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 platonic friendships with potential sexual mates Some people just can't handle men and women being friends- they HAVE to see something sexual, which is more of a commentary on them than it is on the people they are gossiping about. I think you two stumbled upon something here. I do not view every heterosexual male in the world as a "potential sexual mate". And I don't believe many women do actually. But it's fairly obvious that men are trained/conditioned/expected to think differently. (At least given the small sample of people here.) Boy, isn't that quite the commentary on society! Perhaps, this is another underlying cause of why it's so hard for women in male-dominated fields. Even when men acknowledge and appreciate the skills and abilities of women, maybe they're then just plain scared that they'll "accidentally" sleep with one or people would think they did (which is far far worse, because we all know how important other people's gossip is). Or maybe it's that men aren't conditioned to be gossiped about, so they don't handle it well. Or at least they don't believe they are gossiped about. But women aren't afforded that same ignorance. We're well aware of gossip, and socially expected to contribute. So we're more immune I guess? There's a pretty long list of traits women can exhibit that lead people to believe she's a slut (like being aggressive, outspoken, outgoing, wearing makeup, wearing nice clothing, having boobs, etc.) So I guess a little workplace speculation about imaginary bedroom activities is nothing out of the ordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I do not view every heterosexual male in the world as a "potential sexual mate". What the fuck have I wasted all these years on "friendship" for then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 You've been friend zoned, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 platonic friendships with potential sexual mates Some people just can't handle men and women being friends- they HAVE to see something sexual, which is more of a commentary on them than it is on the people they are gossiping about. I think you two stumbled upon something here. I do not view every heterosexual male in the world as a "potential sexual mate". And I don't believe many women do actually. But it's fairly obvious that men are trained/conditioned/expected to think differently. (At least given the small sample of people here.) Boy, isn't that quite the commentary on society! Perhaps, this is another underlying cause of why it's so hard for women in male-dominated fields. Even when men acknowledge and appreciate the skills and abilities of women, maybe they're then just plain scared that they'll "accidentally" sleep with one or people would think they did (which is far far worse, because we all know how important other people's gossip is). This. A bunch. Despite growing up a tomboy, this is one area where I've always "not fit in" with the guys. A few guys I've dated and even my own husband fesses up to this. My husband can't be friends with women because it makes him uncomfortable. The only women he's "friends" with are my friends, and he definitely doesn't hang out with them without me. Part of me on some level is a little disturbed by this, but it falls in line with what every guy who's been honest with me has ever said, so I can't fault him much. One former boyfriend went so far to say that guys are only friends with girls they're willing to sleep with. I definitely don't think about any of my colleagues as potential sexual mates. I would be pretty upset if that's all people thought about me. I wonder if it changes as women age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 That's so weird to me. Trevor has friends who are women who I don't know. And some that I do and are my friends as well. And a couple that I know and can't stand. I also have quite a few male friends (minus one now because Jacob) and it's not weird or awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I think part of it is he's not the social one in our relationship. In college, I think he would've holed up at home and played video games all the time if it wasn't for me. He also never had sisters, and his dad kind of pisses me off because he's always so glad he never had a girl because they're SO much harder. Guy is an emotional black hole. So that has made him uncomfortable with women. He's told me he's afraid they're going to start crying or something.I had one guy friend who was more like an ex in college and my husband HATED him. All my other guy friends were his friends, and he once told me that several of them did have crushes on me. So I don't get it. Now I think we're all adults and sort of paired off so it doesn't matter as much.But despite all this, my husband is one of my biggest cheerleaders for technical competency and doesn't have issues with women in the workplace. He's the one telling me half the shit I get at work is because I'm a woman, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I rarely do things with female friends without my wife, but that's more of a time issue than anything else. I have limited time for my friends, so it's going to be with closer friends. Most of my closer friends are people who have more in common with me, and they tend to be male. I believe that men and women can be friends. I also believe that if at least one person is blatantly acting in a manner that is flirtatious, over an extended period of time and directed at only one person, it isn't friendship. You can't have a one-sided friendship, which is what that is. One person is trying to be a friend, the other wants something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Can somebody split off this friendship convo into its own well deserved thread? Cerina is dropping a thesis I wanna address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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