Dating Outside Your Religion or Philosophy

[Driver]

GIVE UP WINE!?

[Ms. Spam]

Yeah. They're weirder than Scientologists in what you can eat dietary wise.

[Destiny Skywalker]

GIVE UP WINE!?

I NO RITE. Imma gonna need wine to raise 40 kids.

[The Kurgan]

I have a few friends who are Mormon. They're all incredibly nice, dedicated to their faith, and all around good people.

In my experience, that's kind of a facade. What they do is REALLY look after their own. If you're NOT one of them, they'll be quite happy to put a knife in your back. Or at least the ones I've known would have. I've had TERRIBLE personal experiences with them.

[Destiny Skywalker]

Hunh, I haven't had that experience at all, but I've only been good friends with 2, so maybe I hit the jackpot.

[The Kurgan]

And the opposite may well be true for me. Maybe I've met the only real sociopaths in the entire faith. Still, I don't trust them. At the upper echelons, Mormonism gets almost cult like.

[Destiny Skywalker]

Not going to disagree with you there.

[Cerina]

Guys. There are ***holes in every religion, culture, and lifestyle.

[Destiny Skywalker]

I work with a Mormon guy who is probably my "best work friend". There's 3 of us who are considered experts in the company for this particular skill, so we work together a lot and have become friends. I have tried to clean up my language, but it's something I probably need to do anyway, both as a professional and as a mom. He is really good about not getting worked up about it, he only gets upset if it's directed at him. But me and the other guy are always getting coffee and he tags along. If he's judging us, he's pretty good about not rubbing our faces in it. We talk to him about making beer and wine, and he's actually interested from a scientific point of view lol.

 

The other good friend was someone I considered dating, and the feelings were mutual, but the religion was a bit of a rift because I flat out told him I wouldn't convert, so we both knew there wasn't a long-term future there. I wasn't even going to let him attempt "flirt and convert". He once told me I was a drug addict for drinking pop with caffeine and I got pissed. Years later, he's not as hardcore, but I think 10 or so years in the Marines will do that to you. So now he drinks coke like it's going out of style. So does the other guy. They also make exceptions for hot chocolate. Those wild Mormons!

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

Guys. There are ***holes in every religion, culture, and lifestyle.

Yeah I like how this has turned into almost an exclusively bash on Mormons thread, with the obligatory "I have this Mormon friend, but...." Sure they may be weird, and every religion has people worthy of being hated on, but at least Mormons don't cut peoples' heads off and post it on youtube.

[Burt]

I think the statistics show that spouses with more in common do better than spouses with less in common, so based on that it seems like a bad idea to date outside of an in-group...from a gambling/statistical perspective.

[The Kurgan]

I think the statistics show that spouses with more in common do better than spouses with less in common, so based on that it seems like a bad idea to date outside of an in-group...from a gambling/statistical perspective.

More often than not, yes. But there are also exceptions. My Mormon uncle (who's also SUPER conservative) and Catholic aunt (who's a BIG TIME union activist, a real Norma Rae wannabe) are the only couple of that generation in my family who are still together. Any number of things can hold a relationship together. Political and religious compatibility are not always necessary. Besides, I've noticed rivalries in belief systems are more intense the closer together (without actually being the same) than when people are poles apart.

[Guest]

With young people is religion even important any more?

In a nutshell, yes. Way more than it was with your generation, which is precisely why we have an increase in the "Nones" (those who answer surveys saying they have no religion). In previous generations, religion was something that nobody thought about. You were born into a religion, you went to church on Sunday and you did it until you died, whether you cared or not or even whether you believed it or not.

 

Young people, on the other hand, think about what they're doing and consider religion to be important - way too important to lie about and claim to be something that they aren't. Conversely, many young people who practice a faith tend to believe more strongly and be more "pure" in those beliefs.

[Pong Messiah]

at least Mormons don't cut peoples' heads off and post it on youtube

Yet.

[NumberSix]

Mandard was pretty guarded about his life offline.

[Ms. Spam]

 

With young people is religion even important any more?

In a nutshell, yes. Way more than it was with your generation, which is precisely why we have an increase in the "Nones" (those who answer surveys saying they have no religion). In previous generations, religion was something that nobody thought about. You were born into a religion, you went to church on Sunday and you did it until you died, whether you cared or not or even whether you believed it or not.

 

Young people, on the other hand, think about what they're doing and consider religion to be important - way too important to lie about and claim to be something that they aren't. Conversely, many young people who practice a faith tend to believe more strongly and be more "pure" in those beliefs.

 

See - I don't buy that it is more important. I think you see that you have a lively Church group with lots of young parents that you may participate in but really the percentage of active daily participants in religious activity is very small and starting to dwindle as the Boomers die off in the US. There is not a lot that appeals to young people about religion. If they do join and feel as strongly as you say they do they are not the types to cross to a different religion and convert and are more than likely going to marry within their chosen religion. This is why dating sites like Christian Mingle are so popular. I even will go as far as to say that they do not think religion is honest. My examples would be child molestors and embezzlers and a rigid thought structure.

[Ms. Spam]

I want it to be said that I am kind of bashing Mormons. I mean these people are happy gullible settlers who chose this religion for some purpose that drives to me to think they are worse than a drunk Indian and better than say a Scientologist. I know a lot that converted because of the 2012 elections and they wanted to show Romney they liked him and supported him. But the guy who "invented" Mormonism was actually arrested as a con-man. He only ended up in Utah because he was escaping what he thought was persecution. They are not bad people but I would not want to marry one. It's weird because Muslims are not big on drinking either and have some specific food restrictions but their food but those restrictions actually mean healthier eating and are generally really good for you.

 

For instance there is this teacher friend of mine who during the 2012 elections wanted to show that she supported Romney. So she became a Mormon and took her whole family with her. WTF? Can't you just vote for him? I asked her and her answer is that the Mormons make sense to her. Even after Romney lost the election she still goes to worship and believes. She's getting something out of it but her kids kind of secretly hide stuff they do that is not of the Mormon faith. Her husbands pretty much told her that she can go but he's decided that since changing religions is so easy he's going to start a cult of football and stay home on Sunday and like hell can you take my beer and coffee away. She's not the only convert though that came to Mormonism recently. They've had a bit of spike in new attendees.

[Carrie Mathison]

You're not getting Brando's point, Spam. He's not arguing that religion is growing in popularity among youth.

[Ms. Spam]

I think you're missing mine. Perhaps I am not writing it out in a way that you can see it. I am sorry. I think it is not important to young people. If they cared we'd have more young people participating in religion. Hence the population point. It's not the people in quantities. More people chose NONE for their religious affiliation now because there is no value in being in a religious group. They haven't thought about it beyond choosing to stay home on Sundays and do something else.

[The Kurgan]

Her husbands pretty much told her that she can go but he's decided that since changing religions is so easy he's going to start a cult of football and stay home on Sunday and like hell can you take my beer and coffee away.

Oh, so he's Homer the Heretic!

[The Kurgan]

I think you're missing mine. Perhaps I am not writing it out in a way that you can see it. I am sorry. I think it is not important to young people. If they cared we'd have more young people participating in religion. Hence the population point. It's not the people in quantities. More people chose NONE for their religious affiliation now because there is no value in being in a religious group. They haven't thought about it beyond choosing to stay home on Sundays and do something else.

I'm not sure if Brando is right or not in that more people care about religious affiliation now than in the past. What I think he IS saying, though, is that increasingly younger people are putting more thought into what they believe or (and this is of PARAMOUNT importance) don't believe. I think this is what Brando means when he says that more people "think about what they're doing" and "consider religion to be important" (and do correct me if I'm wrong here, Brando). In large part since young people aren't under the kinds of family and community pressure to go to the same church as everyone else (at least in more urban, educated circles) other reasons to affiliate need to be offered by the churches in order to preserve their relevance. Offering stances on hot-button social issues or answers to deeper philosophical and existential questions are one option. The church may still offer community and fellowship, but a prospective convert must still be convinced to convert, whereas in previous generations people just joined the one their family and neighbors went to. Thus requiring that they "think about what they're doing" before making a decision one way or another. What it is the churches have to offer are more likely to be thought out and either accepted or rejected by a populace that no longer feels it necessary to accept pronouncements from the pulpit on the authority of the clerical establishment.

[Ms. Spam]

Call me obstinate I still can't buy into that argument. Are they really thinking about it? How can we prove it is something they weigh out thoughtfully before joining or participating.

 

My faith starts when i am baptized while an infant. My parents make a promise to raise me faithfully in the religion. Can you honestly make choices and understand this covenant promise before high school?

 

i wish i wasn't typing on a cell phond. Guh.

[Guest]

That used to matter, but no longer does, and I think you are biased by age. Our generation (I don't think you are old enough to qualify as a Boomer) was on the borderline between the Boomers (born a religion and will die a religion without ever bothering to know it) and the millenials who aren't going to sign up for something just because mom and dad did it.

 

I'll try to find time to quote some studies for you, but they've been done, especially on the role of increased zeal and religious "purity" among young people who self-identify with a religion.

 

The old guard is dying out. Cultural Christianity, the idea that baptizing your kid as an infant and going to church on Sunday is going to ensure she does the same thing, is dead. The people who would have gone that route, the uncaring "believers" are now being honest and admitting they have no religion.

[Destiny Skywalker]

Yes. My friends who are religious are interested in a more "immersive" experience than past generations. Church isn't an hour on Sunday. Things like ceremony and ritual are less important than what you get out of a sermon. I go to the church where my parents were raised and I was baptized and what a snorefest. The pastor is such a nice man but the sermons are on the intellectual level of a 7 year old.

 

I'm wondering if that's part of the rise in Mormonism that we touched on earlier. They are very involved in their faith, which may be appealing for those seeking a religious identity. But the whole converting for Romney makes zero damn sense to me.

 

We admittedly aren't as active since the kids were born and our home church went through a leadership change. A big part of it is that my husband is uncomfortable leaving the kids in the care of others until they're a little older, since it's different people every week with the younger ages. We now live very close to a church that several of my mom friends attend. I'd like to check it out soon, but I want it to be the right fit. It was very hard to leave our old church but the new pastor was just not our flavor.