Pong Messiah Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Some gay writer says she wants her daughter to be gay too, and lots of people call her stupid, selfish, etc. Lots of straight parents, even ones who fully support gay rights and are not what you'd think of as homophobic would prefer their kids grow up heterosexual. All they have to do is qualify their preference with something like "Hey, I'd certainly love them just as much if they are gay, it's just that [it's harder to be gay/I really want grandkids -- sorry]!" and hardly anybody bats an eyelash. What's wrong with this author saying she'd like her daughter to be gay? I do think writing about it for the whole world to see and setting the daughter up with "right" and "wrong" options is sketchy, but at least she's being honest about it. Maybe it's better than being like those hetero parents who lie to their kids about not being disappointed if they are gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Mathison Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Is it ok for straight parents to say they would prefer their kids grow up straight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Is it any worse than some dude who peaked in high school hoping his kid becomes an NFL star? Jackasses pushing expectations in progeny is as old as time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Is it ok for straight parents to say they would prefer their kids grow up straight?I don't know the social rules behind this very well. Aside from Destiny, I don't find anybody's kids to be as clever/charming/amusing as advertised, so it's just not a subject that comes up very often (and do people who talk about kids a lot even talk about this regularly?). But from what I gather: I think that as long as you are not already viewed as a bigot (i.e. not a Republican) and you express a preference for heterosexuality, as long as you say you'd love and accept your kids just as much if they turn out gay, you're only going to piss off the super uptight who are actively seeking outrage. "It'd just be so much easier for [kid] for reasons x, y, and z." and (wink wink) "I wanna be a grandparent someday!" are the only two rationals I've heard. Like I said, this isn't exactly something I've heard discussed very often! So it seems like if you are a certain type of person and say it in a certain way, people aren't going to lose their minds. But I'm not 100% sure -- it's definitely way more OK than saying you don't think gay people should marry, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Mathison Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Well, I wasn't really asking whether you thought it was "ok" in the "social acceptance" sense. I was asking if you personally had objection to it. I gathered from your post that you don't really have any objection to the homosexual mother in question. My question is asking that, say you read an article from a mother that said "I'm straight and I want my kid to be straight," be honest with yourself, would you have the same reaction or would you find it objectionable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Spam Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Statistics show that more queer people commit suicide than any other population. I would want to spare my child that pain of trying to fit in with a society who still approves of a prude man woman traditional relationship. School is hell on students who are gay. So I guess - uncomfortably - I am saying I think in the back of the mind of a parent you really hope your teen chooses a "traditional" relationship course because you want to be faced with the same problems every other teen parent has and not have that added drama of what to say or do to ease the transition okay. My niece recently had a mastectomy to become more a man. It was an elective surgery and cost a ton of money but my brother really struggles with remembering to call his daughter by his name as a man. I can't even imagine what school and the military was like for his daughter/son but really, I can see the angles of this article. I don't think a person should chose gay through his parents choice though. We are what we are and we should live the person we become. God help that mom if this kid becomes a teenager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Well, I wasn't really asking whether you thought it was "ok" in the "social acceptance" sense. I was asking if you personally had objection to it. I gathered from your post that you don't really have any objection to the homosexual mother in question. My question is asking that, say you read an article from a mother that said "I'm straight and I want my kid to be straight," be honest with yourself, would you have the same reaction or would you find it objectionable?Yeah, you gathered mostly correctly, I think. I don't care about what the author wants. I don't think it's fair to her daughter to write about it publicly, and it sounds like she may be pushing "I really hope yer gay!" on the kid a bit more actively than I think is appropriate, so there are definite issues of privacy and possible unfair expectations going on. But in and of itself, I don't think there is anything awful with a parent hoping their child is a certain sexuality (this goes for straight and gay parents). Seems like a weird thing to focus on to me, but parents already expect lots of things for and from their kids, so reading this shouldn't be a surprise. In summary and conclusion: I don't think hoping your child grows up to be heterosexual makes you a dick; I don't think hoping your child grows up to be homosexual makes you a dick. But if you choose to express that hope, I do think there are ways of going about it that can make you a very big dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I really hope my next kid is a white, cis-gendered, straight male with a perfectly average intelligence and extremely good looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Will you get the super-sized bag of privilege to go along with that kid, or are you going to throw in a random minor disability to "teach them about life?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 He can learn about life by watching it on TV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Is there a difference between hoping your kid grows up to be something vs grows up to NOT be something? Like is it worse for you to hope your kid is straight vs not-gay? Or is it the same? I know we're arguing semantics here and I am playing a bit of devil's advocate, but I am genuinely curious as to whether people feel there's a difference? To me, it comes down to whether you accept that homosexuality is biologically driven or whether it's a choice. The gay community tells us it's biology, they were born gay. And if that's the case, I really doubt most people would purposely choose what is arguably a harder path (like Spam said). And yes, as a parent, I don't want my kid to be tormented by bullies or discriminated against, so deep down I hope they're straight and not gender confused. It's an ugly reality. But what Pong said about how you go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Is there a difference between hoping your kid grows up to be something vs grows up to NOT be something? Like is it worse for you to hope your kid is straight vs not-gay? Or is it the same? I know we're arguing semantics here and I am playing a bit of devil's advocate, but I am genuinely curious as to whether people feel there's a difference?Yes, there is a pretty big difference. There are values and expectation and a child's desire for approval in play. If you hope your kid grows up to be something, there is almost always a positive value attached to it:Wouldn't it be great if Johnny grew up to be an astronaut?Wouldn't it be great if Suzie grew up to perform heart transplants on economically depressed planets?Wouldn't it be awesome if Zack grew up to be a great dad with a great wife and happy life?Wouldn't it be great if Amanda grew up and was able to experience human emotions beyond self-loathing and loneliness?Of course, you can over-emphasize these dreams for your child and turn them into nightmares, but generally speaking, the things parents want their kids to be are considered good. What kind of things do parents not want their kids to be? Hmmmm... what comes to mind? Unhappy. Liars. Debtors. Insane. Criminals. Disabled. Bums. Violent. Failures. Gay. Generally speaking, the things parents don't want their kids to be are considered bad. Hoping that your child isn't a type of sexuality places that sexuality into the bad camp (one time at bad camp...), which is, ahem, problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 would i prefer my son to grow up to be straight? yes. but would i support him if he was gay and love him just the same? yes. i don't necessarily have a problem with this woman's opinion. but i just find it a little hypocritical coming from this woman and her background. i can't help but believe that she would be writing an angry blog or news piece right this second if a married couple husband/wife had blogged and written an article about wishing their son/daughter were straight and not gay. i have no sources. i have no facts. but i've seen her a few times on cnn, and she's a hardcore advocate for LGBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 would i prefer my son to grow up to be straight? yes. but would i support him if he was gay and love him just the same? yes. ^This. Life would be undeniably easier to be straight, but life would be undeniably difficult to be gay and try to live as straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I have a friend who has an interesting approach to speaking about sexuality with her kids. Whenever they would ask questions about relationships or w/e she would say things like, "well someday when you like a boy or a girl..." (she has both boys and girls and would say this to both genders) in a very casual way that I found refreshing. I like that she doesn't even imply an expectation of gay or straight sexual behavior from her kids. I don't know if I would use her approach if I have kids, but I think it's better either extreme of GOD I HOPE THEY'RE STRAIGHT or SCREW BEING STRAIGHT, BE GAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolence Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 As a member of the "T" side of the LGBT spectrum (among others), I can honestly say that I hope to God (if there is such a thing) that my progeny is totally, completely cisgendered and straight. I would never wish my experience on him. I would never wish the discomfort and ill-at-ease sense that comes from being trans. I would never wish the depression and probable suicidality. Nope, I'd wish that he would just be a straight, cisgender identifying kid who grows up to be a boy who likes girls and feels fine about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kurgan Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I would be very, very hesitant to communicate any preference whatever to my children. I grew up with the expectation that the thing that boys were to be was either a skirt chaser (from by father and older males) or some kind of suave, romantic type who spent a lot of money on women (from my mother, educators and my father's girl friends). As a result I ended up rebelling against the whole idea of partnering off with anyone - and sustained that well into my 20s. Which fueled speculation that I was - and picture it in big black letters: GAY. This was before Seinfeld had graced us with the qualifier "not that there's anything wrong with that." I'd hate to think of how things would have played out had I really been LGBT in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Honestly, I feel that if you don't know if your child is gay/straight from an early age, you probably don't spend enough real time with your child. By real time, I mean quality time where you make a point to get to know your kid for who they are and not just time spent with you dictating to them who they "should" be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Spam Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 As a member of the "T" side of the LGBT spectrum (among others), I can honestly say that I hope to God (if there is such a thing) that my progeny is totally, completely cisgendered and straight. I would never wish my experience on him. I would never wish the discomfort and ill-at-ease sense that comes from being trans. I would never wish the depression and probable suicidality. Nope, I'd wish that he would just be a straight, cisgender identifying kid who grows up to be a boy who likes girls and feels fine about that.My heart breaks for you and your situation. I see my brother struggle with this every day in interactions with Nick because he is ultimately more confused by Nick's choices than I think Nick is because of the way my brother was raised. I try very very hard as a teacher to not teach stereotypical behavior and to be a good mediator in situations in school with kids. I can't say too much about school for legal reasons but I think LBGT kids don't wanna hurt their loved ones either and this makes being who they are even harder to express and be the person they feel they should live as because they don't wanna cause the pain and confusion in their family whether it's parents or siblings hence the suicide rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 ^ not to be glib or anything but I think the suicide rate comes more from being treated like a freak or deviant and unaccepted your whole life by society (depending on where you live) than worrying about upsetting ones family. On a side note, I read somewhere that the average life expectancy for a trans gender person is 30 something. If true that is fucked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeygirl Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I don't feel that wanting your child to be anything is inherently wrong-it's what you do to further that wish that I'd be weighing in on if asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Mathison Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 would i prefer my son to grow up to be straight? yes. but would i support him if he was gay and love him just the same? yes. i don't necessarily have a problem with this woman's opinion. but i just find it a little hypocritical coming from this woman and her background. i can't help but believe that she would be writing an angry blog or news piece right this second if a married couple husband/wife had blogged and written an article about wishing their son/daughter were straight and not gay. i have no sources. i have no facts. but i've seen her a few times on cnn, and she's a hardcore advocate for LGBT.This. Excellent Post. That was the point I was making. I couldn't give two sh-ts if someone wants their kid to be gay. Parents want their kids to be all sorts of things, until they have a couple, grow out of that, realize they can't control some things, and get over it. But that being said, reading this article, I sniffed hypocrisy. I am well over 90% certain that if a straight person said something about wanting their kid to be straight, this person would be all up in their ass, probably making comparisons to them and Hitler or whatever. Now Pong- you're not really one of those annoying, SJW, RC Allen type posters, but I suppose I sensed a bit of the same with you since there are a few issues you have SJW tendencies on, gay rights being one. I was hoping you'd be too smart for that nonsense and I found your posts to be fairly reasonable on this topic. My opinion on this is simple- as I said, I couldn't give a rat's ass what someone wants their kid to be. But there's a difference between that and writing about it on the internet. Mommybloggers are seriously the worst. I really don't give a sh-t what the topic happens to be. We're talking about narcissistic attention whoring of the lowest level; writing about your kid(s) as if they were consumer products, talking about your experiences as if you're the first person in the history of humanity to go through child-raising. Do these people realize that eventually children grow up and they'll be able to search all this sh-t and read it on the internet? Teens already have enough angst towards their parents as it is.. why force them to go through a period of intense embarrassment as they learn they were, for years, the object of your vain musings in public for millions to see? Jesus Christ.. f-cking unbelievable. Here's a message for mommybloggers everywhere- nobody gives a f-ck about your ugly little spawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Now Pong- you're not really one of those annoying, SJW, RC Allen type posters, but I suppose I sensed a bit of the same with you since there are a few issues you have SJW tendencies on, gay rights being one.that hurts man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie Mathison Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Sorry dude but it's true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 a true lie i don't even believe in rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts