ShadowDog Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 killing off of two main characters off screen at the start feels like a slap in the face to fans of Aliens.Good point. This has ALWAYS bothered me. Just a shitty decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest El Chalupacabra Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Yeah, which is why Clone of Hicks would be redundant, IMHO. I suppose they could explain it away by saying he was infested with an alien, too, so Weyland wanted to clone him like they did with Ripley, but that seems to retconny.Or they clone him and Newt to get to RipleyTHE ****ing COMPANY MAN wait, there is no company where Ripley is now I was thinking Clone of Hicks might have been done at another facility at the same time as Clone of Ripley, or before. You can easily ignore Alien 3 and 4. Fantastic 4 rebootBatman rebootsSuperman rebootsSorry. Not really that strong an argument for ignoring Alien 3/4, RM. The Joel Shumacher Batman films, and TDKR were sh*t. Superman Returns had a lot to be desired bordering on sh*t (in fact, despite a valiant effort and the fact I liked it better than MOS, even, it proved half-ass reboots don't work), and MOS was pure sh*t. Fantastic 4 reboot sounds like it will be sh*t. Ignoring established continuity, particularly films that are 18 & 23 years old, is not a good way to handle that. Not to mention, I actually like those films. Maybe not as well as the first two, but they don't need to be erased from continuity. As I see it there's 3 options: pick up after resurrection (the best option, IMHO), start with a new cast in the same continuity (could work, but then again AVP showed it can suck just as easily), or just recast and reboot all the way (not likely with Prometheus 2, and rumored recruitment of Sigourney Weaver in the works). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I think the MCU proves people prefer a longer continuity rather than a ****ing reboot every 3 films. The films just have to not suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelentlessMalice Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 If Hollywood thinks they can make millions by ignoring two weak non fan favorite films that were made years ago they will. Real Alien fans only acknowledge part 1 and 2 and roll their eyes at 3 and 4. Plot wise you can always cancel out part 3 and 4 by saying Ripley,Newt,and Hicks were once again in deep hypersleep and they aged because the pods malfunctioned. Plus they can pay homage to 3 and 4 by passing them off as bad dreams Which plays into that plot issue at the end of Aliens when Newt asks if it is okay to dream. Well she has a nightmare instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 "Real Alien fans" Who gets to decide whose a real fan and who's fake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelentlessMalice Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Be honest how many Alien fans if given a choice of watching any Alien film would pick as their "FIRST" choice part 3 or 4? I do not think many would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'm in the minority that prefers the original over Aliens. And while I like Aliens, I think it did a disservice to the franchise by being such a departure that it made the expectations for 3 and 4 unfair. It was NOT intended to ever be a scifi action franchise, it was a horror movie in space. Alien 3 delivers just fine on that. 4 is admittedly confused about which way it wants to go-- but yeah, you can't say that any more than a Star Wars fan can say only REALY fans dislike the PT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I doubt it. Why would they give a **** about a video game?Because it'd be cool. Mixed media and that. But you're probably right. I'm with Driver as well, much prefer Alien to Aliens. James Cameron G.I Joe'd the fuck out of that movie. I still like it.. But prefer the terror of the first a lot more. Also the first film has so much atmosphere to it.. Gives goosebumps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Be honest how many Alien fans if given a choice of watching any Alien film would pick as their "FIRST" choice part 3 or 4? I do not think many would.That doesn't really have anything to do with anything. But even if someone did, how does that make them not a real fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuskenRaider Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Nice to see 3 getting a little bit of love in here. I like it for what it is, and when I see it on TV I usually stop for awhile. 3 feels a whole like like they were trying real hard (too hard) to make a sequel to the first film. To the point that it almost completely disavows Aliens. Which is just bizarre. But I can appreciate the attempt to go back to more straight horror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelentlessMalice Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Here is why 3 and 4 simply did not add up because they turned Ripleys relationship with the Alien was weird. Ripley in part 1 just wants to survive. Part 2 more of the same only from a maternal instinct because of Newt. Then we get to part 3. Ripley has a queen in her and no harm can come to her which takes alot away that made parts 1 and 2 work. Who really gave a shit about the prisoners? When you do not care about the victims that the Alien is killing it takes the horror and suspense out. At least you cared for most of the Marines and Newt in Aliens. Alien 4 has no legs to stand on or merit. Once again who cares about mercs in space? The whole cloning plot sucked. Alien 3 and 4 basically became "how can we elaborately kill in a gross way in the next scene. Alien and Aliens leaves that to the imagination overall. Aliens compliments and adds so much to the original while 3 and 4 just tags along and are very weak. I mean if Alien 3 and 4 have true merit to the series then I guess Jaws 3 and 4 have merit or how about Highlander 2 etc... A true fan of those series will always pick the original and maybe one other from the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Have you really not heard of the No True Scotsman fallacy? I just don't think you or anyone else gets to decide someone's level of fandom or worthiness as a fan. People can like whatever they want for whatever reason they have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Here is why 3 and 4 simply did not add up because they turned Ripleys relationship with the Alien was weird. Ripley in part 1 just wants to survive. Part 2 more of the same only from a maternal instinct because of Newt. The relationship had to evolve. Surviving wasn't enough. Ripley's conversation to what she thinks is the Alien in 3 is kind of the heart of the entire franchise-- when she tells it that she can no longer separate herself from it because its existence, and trying to kill it is all her life is now about. The only way to kill it, is to kill herself, which she ultimately does. That's character evolution, that's gravitas and pathos and it makes more than just a horror or action movie. Then we get to part 3. Ripley has a queen in her and no harm can come to her which takes alot away that made parts 1 and 2 work. Who really gave a **** about the prisoners? When you do not care about the victims that the Alien is killing it takes the horror and suspense out. At least you cared for most of the Marines and Newt in Aliens. I disagree. I think seeing that the alien does not discriminate is important. And some of those prisoners, especially Charles Dutton and the Doctor, were seeing this as a chance for redemption of some sort for their crimes. Just because they weren't good people doesn't make them uninteresting. Alien 4 has no legs to stand on or merit. Once again who cares about mercs in space? The whole cloning plot sucked. 4 basically took Ripley's speech from three and made it literal-- they were actively trying to separate her from the Alien and couldn't. She'd basically become the thing that she had committed her existence to killing-- and it was part of her intrinsically. She had the memories of the original Ripley, but wasn't her. She couldn't even blame the company as they were long gone. Alien 3 and 4 basically became "how can we elaborately kill in a gross way in the next scene. Alien and Aliens leaves that to the imagination overall. ... What? The original chest-burster scene, even by todays standards, is one of the goriest scenes in a horror movie there's ever been. I will concede that 4 did go wrong with showing the aliens so frequently and fully when the other films always made sure the alien was moving fast or mostly in shadow. Aliens compliments and adds so much to the original while 3 and 4 just tags along and are very weak. Opinion, not fact. You don't get to say who's a true fan. No one does. I've been a Star Wars fans since I was 4, and I've had people tell me I can't be a real fan because I don't care for the EU or the PT. No one gets to make a rule like that. When was the last time you saw Alien 3? I have a theory that most people who saw it have only seen it one or two times, and did so either when it first came out, or on video right after they saw Aliens and had their expectations ruined because it was Aliens continued. Watching them now, as a whole, they stack up rather well and interestingly. The missteps came with the AVP films-- which I'm sure they have their fans, but they, and Prometheus for that matter, are poop. AND IF YOU DONT AGREE YOU'RE NOT A REAL FAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelentlessMalice Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 My original point is Hollywood can easily forget and remake, reboot or reimagine a film francise and forget past films. Part 3 and 4 can be easily forgotten. They are weak links to the series. Starting with part 3 which went through so many rewrite. Part 4???? Jesus if they can clone ripley who fell into a furnace at the end of 3 I think a writer can figure out how to right the ship back on course with hicks and newt surviving on. To me that is where the series went to utter crap. The characters you cared about are half assed killed off. As far as death scenes I agree the chestburster is memorable. I was talking about the others. Your imagination wonders about Dallas and others killed on the ship. Just like alot of the marines in Aliens. Part 3 and 4 the body count skyrockets and it got more bloody and pointless. Example part 4 when the alien comes out of the guys head. The whole true fan deal was a poor choice of words. I just wish a new alien film could pick up where Aliens left off a forget 3 and 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RelentlessMalice Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk_x9W1xKng This is the teaser trailer for part 3 and the fans never got it. It is time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I kinda always liked Newt and Hicks being killed off. Makes it apparent that NO ONE is safe. If they can kill off a little girl (albeit off screen) then anyone is a possible goner. I mean, I know it wasn't the alien that did it... But killing them off so casually kind of just adds to the bleakness and hoplesness of the whole universe, just kind of adding to the overall tone... The fact that the later characters (of alien 3 etc) were not as memorable for some people is the only real shame. Killing people off isn't IMO. The major problem I have with Alien Ressurection is that they give the queen a Human reproductive system cause they claim it's superior. However I was under the assumption that our reproductive system is one of our weaknesses. (We gestate for 9 months, and our infants are amazingly helpless). Whereas the Aliens original reproductive cycle was more like that of an insect. Just pumping out eggs and units all the time. So the scientists whole motivation for experimentation seems flawed. But otherwise I liked Ressurection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 It seemed like a stupid decision to give her a human reproductive system, but when you got people like beautiful, beautiful butterfly guy running things, it kinda makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I kinda always liked Newt and Hicks being killed off. Makes it apparent that NO ONE is safe. If they can kill off a little girl (albeit off screen) then anyone is a possible goner. I mean, I know it wasn't the alien that did it... But killing them off so casually kind of just adds to the bleakness and hoplesness of the whole universe, just kind of adding to the overall tone... The fact that the later characters (of alien 3 etc) were not as memorable for some people is the only real shame. Killing people off isn't IMO. The major problem I have with Alien Ressurection is that they give the queen a Human reproductive system cause they claim it's superior. However I was under the assumption that our reproductive system is one of our weaknesses. (We gestate for 9 months, and our infants are amazingly helpless). Whereas the Aliens original reproductive cycle was more like that of an insect. Just pumping out eggs and units all the time. So the scientists whole motivation for experimentation seems flawed. But otherwise I liked Ressurection.I don't think the purpose of the experiment was to give the alien a human birth cycle. They wanted the alien to use as a weapon, just like the company did. But the blood sample they had of Ripley proved to be difficult to work with in terms of separating the alien's DNA from Ripley's. That's why they had all the hybrid abominations. The latest version was as close as they could get-- they were separate, but with a little bleed over. Ripley had the strength, reflexes and sixth sense, while the queen they extracted got a human reproductive cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Aahh I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuskenRaider Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 http://www.slashfilm.com/blomkamps-alien/ Well, looks like it will officially have Weaver back and ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection. All of this is beginning to ring of 'too good to be true' though. I really hope it all works out and it's awesome. I want nothing more than another great Alien film. But we have to be really careful not to let our expectations get too crazy on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I hate it when this happens. ONE blog reports a theory, and everyone runs with it like it was news. All he said was Ripley needs a "proper finish" and some of the concept art is obvious Aliens-esque. Everyone is assuming that his mens it must ignore 3 and 4, which by no means does it. The alien universe is full o clones, genetic engineering and super science, there's more than one way to get Hicks there if the CONCEPT art ends up coming true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Alien 5's problems are video games being canon. That works for Alien Isolation, but it also means Colonial Marines is canon. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/alien-5-has-problems-and-those-problems-are-video-games-813 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 In no real world scenario is a video game in any sort of way a problem for a movie, except in the minds of delusional gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Yeah-- any tertiary media can claim to be canon... until a new movie is made and they decide to ignore it. Just ask Star Wars EU fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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