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"Manspreading"


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It's a subway. The purpose is to move many people efficiently from points A to B, and then to C. It wasn't designed for your individual comfort. It wasn't even designed for everyone to even have a seat. If you are lucky enough to get a seat, don't complain. If you absolutely must have more leg room, either lean against the other person or leave. If you are merely uncomfortable about the proxemics, tough shit. Reread my first three sentences until it sinks in. It's a short ride anyways, and it will all be over soon.

 

And for the record, although I dislike being crampt on the subway like everybody else, I find the term man spreading somewhat offensive.

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The behavior in question is irritating and stupid, and I occasionally have to get after my passengers to make more room for their fellow passengers. Neither gender is actually worse for it than the other, mind you. The worst offenders are youth who identify with ghetto subcultures.

 

That said, the familiar pattern of smug, self righteous educated women using their precious social theories to act superior to men is not something that should surprise us now, or require a lot of explanation.

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In most cases, a man is going to take up more space than a woman. It is also uncomfortable for most men to sit with their knees close together. That's just biology. Deal with it. At the same time, a man spreading out in his seat (and into others) like he's got scrotal lymphedema (unless he actually has scrotal lymphedema) is rude -- maybe clueless at best.

 

As I see it: some guy who is just pancaked out over three seats -- that guy's a tool, and a contributor to public transportation angst. **** him. Raging about some guy whose knees brushed against you when the train hit a bump because he's not willing or able to cross his legs like a good boy? Stfu princess.

 

Short people, tall people, fat people, people with wheel chairs or service animals, men, women, transgender, whatever -- we all have legit reasons for riding the bus or train. Sometimes it isn't gonna be comfortable, but gotta use common sense in deciding when somebody is being an ass, and when somebody, simply by the nature of their size or shape, is taking up more space than you'd like. If it's the former, feel free to speak up or bitch about it after the fact; if it's the latter, just stop.

 

I love the responses to this one:

 

http://movethefuckoverbro.tumblr.com/post/80002627650/a-friend-sent-this-and-asked-me-to-submit-on-her

 

:lol:

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In most cases, a man is going to take up more space than a woman. It is also uncomfortable for most men to sit with their knees close together. That's just biology. Deal with it. At the same time, a man spreading out in his seat (and into others) like he's got scrotal lymphedema (unless he actually has scrotal lymphedema) is rude -- maybe clueless at best.

 

As I see it: some guy who is just pancaked out over three seats -- that guy's a tool, and a contributor to public transportation angst. **** him. Raging about some guy whose knees brushed against you when the train hit a bump because he's not willing or able to cross his legs like a good boy? Stfu princess.

Thanks for the link, Pong. Those were some REALLY pleasant images.

 

Yeah, men need a bit more space while sitting, but the difference isn't really that overwhelming. Taking up space on transit isn't what this is really about, though. Otherwise they'd go after the much more consistent and egregious offenders (and given that I spend 45 hours a week or so operating public transit vehicles, I think I'm qualified to speak with authority here) such as bulky bags and back packs. Poor etiquette on transit is actually a pet peeve of mine, for obvious reasons, but this is nowhere near the major issue that the attention it's here receiving here is making it out to be. Much like most "feminist" and "social justice" issues that crop up in social media, this is about smug, self righteous jackasses lording their sense of superiority and entitlement over lower class males. Vague concerns for women's issues are merely the pretense this hides behind. This is part of a duplicitous tradition that goes right back to the literal age of chivalry, when pompous and overblown concern over social mores and being especially pretentious in one's displays of concerns for women were how the otherwise decaying aristocracy set itself above the rising middle class. Little has changed in six hundred years, and I suspect it goes back much farther than that.

 

This is ALL ABOUT CLASS, people. The worst "manspreaders" are ghetto types (again, full time transit operator experience talking here) while the SJWs getting up in arms about it are, or think of themselves as being, educated and of at least a cultural and intellectual elite.

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Oh, PLEASE! NOBODY's junk is THAT big.

I know a lot of people with evolutionary psychology leanings think women sit with their legs together to "hide their genitals" while men sit with their legs apart to "present their genitals;" I know that some guys claim they will smash their giant manhood if they sit all scrunched up (hint: any time a guy talks about his massive member, you can safely assume he's overcompensating for something).

 

But if we're being serious and honest, I think it's just plain uncomfortable for many men to sit with crossed legs or knees super close together. Personally, I have never been able to properly cross my legs, and it takes more effort than it is worth to make my knees touch when sitting with legs straight out (though do my best to "minimize space" on a crowded train). I know some men who can cross their legs no problem and that's great, but I am not deformed or obscenely fat/inflexible and I know my experience is not uncommon.

There are noticeable differences between male and female pelvises. Male pelvises are a lot narrower, so I would think this plays into preferred "sitting style" as much or more than any social conditioning.

 

The female pelvis has evolved to its maximum width for childbirth and male pelvis has been optimized for bipedal locomotion.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

LOL! I never even heard of this. This reads and sounds like something off The Onion.

Talk about a first world problem. People should take up enough room they feel they need to be comfortable within reason, and if other people have a problem with it, SCREW THEM. Space is relative, and no one needs to pack themselves in like sardines.

 

But then again, there's something to be said about a city that actually has a decent freeway and road system, so as to allow one to drive their OWN vehicle where they need to go, and not deal with subways, light rails, or city buses. Mass transit is a great option, but living in a city where its your ONLY option really sucks. I like the freedom of driving.

 

What I want to know is where is the outrage for womenspreading, when women put their huge ass tote bags next to them to make sure no one sits next to them? I think that goes on at least as this stupid manspreading.

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What I want to know is where is the outrage for womenspreading, when women put their huge ass tote bags next to them to make sure no one sits next to them? I think that goes on at least as this stupid manspreading.

Outrageous! Females do not possess the economic, political, or institutional power to womanspread in our sickening patriarchy; if you see "womanspreading," it is only being done in the hopes it prevents some creepy, oppressive man from sitting down next to them (male privilege).

 

If I don't read an apology from you within the hour, the shaming will begin!

 

 

:angry:

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Outrageous! Females do not possess the economic, political, or institutional power to womanspread in our sickening patriarchy; if you see "womanspreading," it is only being done in the hopes it prevents some creepy, oppressive man from sitting down next to them (male privilege).

 

If I don't read an apology from you within the hour, the shaming will begin!

 

 

:angry:

Ha ha ha - classic. You really ought to go on tumblr, Pong.

 

The punch line is that the men who DO find this offensive are accused of being ... wait for it ... whiney and oversensitive!

 

Social media feminism isn't an ideology. It's a mental illness. And even stupider and crazier still are the mainatream media and academia who take it serious. THIS warrants satire and ridicule, not serious discussion.

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this is about smug, self righteous jackasses lording their sense of superiority and entitlement over lower class males. Vague concerns for women's issues are merely the pretense this hides behind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right on target. Centuries of males sitting in all sort of positions from one form of transportation to another, and now it is a problem? Utter nonsense, and part of the never ending drive to beat any allegedly male behavior into the ground.

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People in general are just jackasses when it comes to public transportation. When I was pregnant, I can't tell you how many people pushed me (balance is terrible when you're super pregnant) or wouldn't let me pass by comfortably. I think someone only gave their seat up for me once, and that was at Disney World. I'm not being entitled here, I just want to get by someone and I couldn't "suck it in".

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People in general are just jackasses when it comes to public transportation. When I was pregnant, I can't tell you how many people pushed me (balance is terrible when you're super pregnant) or wouldn't let me pass by comfortably. I think someone only gave their seat up for me once, and that was at Disney World. I'm not being entitled here, I just want to get by someone and I couldn't "suck it in".

Yer on MY turf here, Destiny! <grin> And I've seen what you're talking about. People like you're describing get told to move or they're off my bus.

 

The worst public transit users, at least in my ample experience, and I do hate to say this for fear of ruffling feathers here, but they are young mothers pushing baby strollers. More specifically, younger white mothers. Add in some piercings, tattoos and dyed hair and I think just about every one I've dealt with in my eight and a half years as a full time transit operator was a complete douchebag. Simple as that. Apologies to anyone out there who fits this description but is otherwise a decent human being, on transit and elsewhere.

 

To begin with, there's only so much room at the front of the bus where the priority seating is, and while most seniors and even people in wheelchairs respect this and will even wait for another bus when this area of the bus is full - as is the policy - not so these young mothers. You tell them flat out that there's no room, but up comes the stroller anyway. They're new moms, don't you know, and that means she and baby are the center of the universe. Share space respectfully with others? You must be joking. Their strollers then completely block the isles, making it difficult and time consuming for other passengers to board and exit the bus. They get belligerent with other passengers in the priority seating areas, including the elderly and those with visible disabilities, whom they insist move for themselves and their precious, precious, PRECIOUS babies, because lord knows, every mother's baby is the absolute BEST baby that ever there was. Have fun telling them that priority seating is on a first come first serve basis. I can and will make exceptions under certain circumstances - if I'm the last bus of the day or the weather's especially crappy or something like that. Most transit users where I'm from are generally accommodating. But still, if it's the middle of rush hour and there's four strollers on the bus already and another bus is only five minutes behind and it's not a raging blizzard outside - wait for the next one.

 

Yeah, we all love our children. We'd be shitty parents if we didn't. But nobody is the center of the universe here. Able bodied people without mobility restrictions should do the right thing and abdicate priority seating areas for young mothers pushing strollers, even ones such as I've described. That's just civility. But being civil is, hard as this may be to believe, a responsibility ALL share. Don't block the isles if it can be at all helped.

 

Immigrant and ethnic women and men pushing strollers are typically somewhat better, as are white women sans university education. In short, people with less a sense of how victimized and downtrodden they are by our evil patriarchal society, and the accompanying exemptions from having to be civil that come with being a marginalized humanities major.

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I've only been on the subway a dozen or so times, but I usually ended up giving up my seat. I feel ridiculous being a perfectly healthy, youngish person that has to have a seat at the expense of the elderly, a parent with a child, etc. Maybe I just haven't used enough public transportation to get mean about it.

 

I agree with a lot of what has been said. The modern feminism is missing the mark. #notallfemnists #manspreadingisahilariousterm #hastagsdontactuallychangetheworld

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I think Kurgan might just hate people. I would too, if I was a transit operator. But especially wimmin.

Ha ha! It's tempting at times. I think I could actually be happy as a complete hermit. Ramirez was right when he said I'd cover the world in darkness had I prevailed in the gathering. I suppose I'm rather forward about what strikes me as being stupid and absurd. I've dealt with a fair number of gamey, manipulative people of both sexes over the years, so I've hardened up some. Plus, I'm getting older and crabbier.

 

But do I hate anyone? No. Some of my best friends are women. My marriage has endured nearly twenty years - I doubt this would have come to be were I a genuine misogynist. I've seen, known even, genuine woman haters. I hope you never do. They're not pleasant.

 

Stuff like this just makes me shake my head more than anything. We're a culture of spoilt prima-donnas if we think chavs sprawling out on public transit is part and parcel of some broader system of oppression; a clear demonstration of the violence inherent in the system, as it were. But it's not unique to SJW or feminist activism. The same self absorbed detatchment from reality is present in the tea party types who equate Obamacare with Hitler or Stalin, Infowars jackasses who make water flouridation out to be some kind of sinister communist conspiracy, and the like. We're a culture of professional victims angsting ad nausium over first world problems.

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