"Hard" Drugs

[The Kurgan]

Oh boy yeah. AA and it's sister program Alanon is nothing put a replacement for addictions people are getting away from. I too saw stuff in both that made me wonder, wth?

I don't know that they are "nothing but" a replacement for other addictions, but 12 step programs often can be, and many of the rooms seem to work to keep members addicted. I stopped being a regular at A.A after about 6 or 7 years, and THAT was a few years too many. At some point, you put it behind you except for the occasional reminder that you can't drink or use drugs like a non-addicted person. I haven't been to a meeting in years and still don't drink.

[Ms. Spam]

The biggest turn off to drugs is that they don't seem to do anything for me. In college some friends wanted to see what I would be like high. Nothing. I felt nothing. When I had to take pain killers the impacted the pain so little. Novocaine at the dentist office? Nope. 8 shots of general anesthetic and nothing. I felt it bad. So I suspect if I were to take harder drugs it wouldn't do much for me and I'd feel like it was a big waste of money.

 

I quit cigarettes cold turkey. Just decided 8 bucks a pack were too much and stopped.

[Ms. Spam]

 

Oh boy yeah. AA and it's sister program Alanon is nothing put a replacement for addictions people are getting away from. I too saw stuff in both that made me wonder, wth?

I don't know that they are "nothing but" a replacement for other addictions, but 12 step programs often can be, and many of the rooms seem to work to keep members addicted. I stopped being a regular at A.A after about 6 or 7 years, and THAT was a few years too many. At some point, you put it behind you except for the occasional reminder that you can't drink or use drugs like a non-addicted person. I haven't been to a meeting in years and still don't drink.

 

I probably shouldn't blanket statement like I did but I did not get anything from my experience. I think it is good for people because it does give some kind of focus - plan or map - that they can use to help them. And some people need that. Who am I to ridicule that. It didn't work for my Mom but mostly she didn't want to admit she had a problem or work on amending any relationships she'd torched through the years when she did go after my sisters suicide attempt and my sisters doctor recommended my mom going because within 10 minutes of meeting my mom he'd deduced she was an alky and that she was one of the reasons my sister felt helpless and wanted to die.

 

Heh. That was a long run on.

[Destiny Skywalker]

The biggest turn off to drugs is that they don't seem to do anything for me. In college some friends wanted to see what I would be like high. Nothing. I felt nothing. When I had to take pain killers the impacted the pain so little. Novocaine at the dentist office? Nope. 8 shots of general anesthetic and nothing. I felt it bad. So I suspect if I were to take harder drugs it wouldn't do much for me and I'd feel like it was a big waste of money.

 

I quit cigarettes cold turkey. Just decided 8 bucks a pack were too much and stopped.

Spam, I'm the same way, except that painkillers work great for me but with no weird side effects or addiction. I've been on vicodin (wisdom teeth) and hydrocodone (2 c-sections). All my friends have talked about how it made them loopy, blah blah blah. For me, it just managed the pain and I didn't feel sleepy, weird, or anything. Just numbed things like it was supposed to.

 

But boy was I pissed when they wouldn't renew the Rx for the hydrocodone. ***holes, I just had major abdominal surgery. Here I am stomping (ok, shuffling) around Seattle Children's while Ethan was in the NICU, and my OB won't renew the Rx so I get to rotate tylenol and ibuprofen every 2 hours, which isn't doing jack squat, on top of being freaked out about my kid stopping breathing for some unknown reason. Seriously wanted to murder somebody. The staff at Seattle Children's was at least nice enough to encourage me to keep my feet propped up and brought me ice packs for my swollen ankles. Only in this country do we tell women, "No big deal, you just had a baby, get on your feet!"

[Ms. Spam]

heh. I'd be mad too.

 

When I had surgery for a tear in my stomach lining they gave me painkillers - I forget which ones because it was way back in '94 - and they helped ease the pain but I didn't get any loopy side affects. I have a high tolerance for pain though so I usually just tough it out. I went and taught after I had a root canal. The whole time my mouth was throbbing but I think doing something focused away from it and all I took was that same thing, tylenol and then ibuprofen. If I were home with nothing to do I suspect the pain would be unbearable because its there and I have nothing to focus on. If I just grind it out and go home, by that time I am so exhausted I fall asleep after a good sobbing.

 

I wonder how much of a drugs high is a kind of placebo. If you think about it, I think certain personalities are predisposed to enjoy drugs not because of the intended effects but because they've set aside time to do them and the expected high means that mentally they're letting their brain just take off and imagine or do the things they don't have time or allow themselves to do. So the high comes because they're permitting it. I enjoy a beer or mixed drink on a hot day on my porch or with friends because I'm finally telling myself to relax and let go. My mellowness is just kind of enhanced by the alcohol in my drink but really I am just finally letting go of everything that tugs at me during the week or day like school or bills or chores.

 

And maybe I just hate f'n druggies because wtf? you have time and money to waste to lie around and do nothing? ***holes.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

Hard and soft drugs are artificial distinctions.

Everything is an artificial distinction.

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

To answer the original question "how do you define hard drugs", the DEA classifies drugs in a schedule. Schedule one narcotics are high risk of abuse with no acceptable medicinal use, and are illegal to posses or obtain even by a prescription. This (still) includes marijuana. Yes, despite having some medicinal use, and relatively low risk for addiction, it is schedule one, but in some states doctors can prescribe it. More on that later. Other schedule one drugs include meth, LSD, ecstasy.

 

Schedule two narcotics have a high risk of abuse with acceptable medicinal use and are only legal to posses or obtain by a prescription, or inpatient doctors orders (which is the essentially same thing). These include oxycontin, methadone, morphine, dilaudid, cocaine, ritalin, adderall. Vicodin was recently reclassified and is now schedule two.

 

Schedule three narcotics have a moderate risk of abuse and schedule four have a low risk of abuse, both with medicinal use. Both are handled identically by doctors and pharmacists. These include klonopin, valium, ativan, ultram, phenobarbital.

 

Schedule six includes most all other prescribed drugs. Low risk of abuse, or none.

 

About marijuana being prescribed in some states despite being schedule 1 narcotic:

 

A year ago I went to a seminaar sponsored by the DEA and this topic came up. Questions were asked and answered by a representative from the DEA. When asked: "how can a doctor prescribe marijuana in some states when the federal government says it's schedule one", he answered: "I DON'T KNOW. Federal law supersedes state law, so technically they can't unless it gets reclassified by us. They can nerd the penalties though, and that's what's happening".

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

Now for my opinion:

 

I'd say the hardest drug is meth. Statistically, it's by far the most addictive, it does the most damage to your brain chemistry, and its both easy and dangerous to make. People blow themselves up making it all the time. It is número uno on the DEA's hit list.

 

 

Please please please everybody: Don't do meth.

[Evolence]

I would contend that the addictive nature of a substance is a function of the drug's neurochemistry COUPLED with the route of administration. Meth, coke, and a few other stimulants all have pretty similar neurological mechanisms posing the potential for addiction. I would say that someone taking beanies (methamphetamine pills taken by truckers) is a lot less susceptible to getting quickly addicted than someone smoking crack. Route of administration has a HUGE role in addiction, as it determines the speed at which an agent operates on the brain (and the ensuing rush). Generally:

 

Oral < Sublingual / Rectal < Insufflation < Smoking < IM injection < IV injection

 

Depending on the drug preparation, some would put smoking as a quicker onset than IM injections and nearly on par with IV injections. Regardless, when you get into smoking or injecting drugs the speed of onset is nearly immediate, making these routes much more addictive.

[Odine]

 

People who take crack and heroin are by nature generally people with addict personality types.

??? Source for this odd supposition?

 

 

.

No source. But think about it. Crack and Heroin are not drugs that one typically wakes up one day and goes "oh I'm gonna try it, quite fancy trying crack today". Crack and Heroin are typically drugs that you arrive to taking after exhausting your enjoyment with other drugs, or after a fair bit of drug use with other substances. Sure there are exceptions to this, and there are people who like the romance of heroin from a removed position and probably contemplate doing it... A bit like Pong.... But the vast majority of these people will never go through with it. So with that in mind, if your gonna smoke crack or shoot heroin the odds are you've had a pretty extensive history with recreational drug use/abuse and because of that its more than likely for said individual to have an addictive personality type. If anyone who has taken drugs consistently (as apposed to recreational dabbling) for more than a few years running claims that they don't have and addictive personality or nature they are in denial.

[monkeygirl]

That's a long string of conjecture. Not saying this scenario isn't possible or likely-just a lot of supposing.

 

The majority of those I've known and talked to that have smoked crack or shot heroin do it ONLY to take away emotional pain. They've had differing experiences with their own gateway drugs, but they're not 'exhausting enjoyment'-they're not recreational users in the sense we think of them as partiers. They're in pain and they want it to stop and that is ALL they can think about when they take the drugs. I just don't see these as going hand-in-hand with an 'addict personality type', but of course, that's just among my tiny control group.

 

I've been smoking weed almost daily since I was 13, probably done most drugs you can name-some for a high, some self-medicating, but I'm not sure I have an addictive personality because I can smoke and quit cigarettes any time I want. But maybe you define 'addict personality type' differently that I do, too.

[Odine]

Addiction, partying, recreational drug use, escapism, and emotional pain are not mutually exclusive terms in my experience. It all starts to blur together after a while, and probably more soon than people would care to admit.

 

I concur that I am using broad brushstrokes in my expressing my opinion here, but I don't feel that I'm incorrect in this.

 

And MG, your description of yourself as well as the statement "I can quit (smoking) anytime I want" is a giant flashing neon light of addictive personality type. (In my non-scientific opinion). Not that there is any shame in it. I would never want anyone to feel that having an addictive personality as something to be ashamed or embarrassed by, it just is. I have one.

[The Kurgan]

And MG, your description of yourself as well as the statement "I can quit (smoking) anytime I want" is a giant flashing neon light of addictive personality type. (In my non-scientific opinion). Not that there is any shame in it. I would never want anyone to feel that having an addictive personality as something to be ashamed or embarrassed by, it just is. I have one.

From one addict to another, monkeygirl, Odine has the right of it. That said, the LAST thing that will work with an addict is pontificating and lecturing. People stop drinking and using when they're damn well ready to, and pressuring them to try and quit before this happens is almost guaranteed to backfire. There are treatment options out there should you ever feel the need to quit. Until then, I hope weed brings you the solace it did not bring me: I always got panic attacks, sweaty palms, choking sensations, feeling like I was going insane. Intoxication scares the crap out of me, actually. IF you can enjoy it responsibly, good on you.

[monkeygirl]

And MG, your description of yourself as well as the statement "I can quit (smoking) anytime I want" is a giant flashing neon light of addictive personality type. (In my non-scientific opinion). Not that there is any shame in it. I would never want anyone to feel that having an addictive personality as something to be ashamed or embarrassed by, it just is. I have one.

 

HA! I KNOW it sounds like classic denial, but it's entirely true. I have almost no cravings for nicotine. It takes me very little effort to quit. I've picked them back up in times of stress, only because I know I can quit when I want to. I have a tougher time with weed-I am totally psychologically dependent on weed right now. I haven't had a cigarette in about 6 years, I think and I never had those automatics that most smokers do-after a meal or after sex. I never had problems when I ran out or when I was on a plane or couldn't smoke.

 

I don't know what my personality is-addiction-wise-not saying I'm NOT - just don't think so. Now I want more info on addictive personalities.

 

 

From one addict to another, monkeygirl, Odine has the right of it. That said, the LAST thing that will work with an addict is pontificating and lecturing. People stop drinking and using when they're damn well ready to, and pressuring them to try and quit before this happens is almost guaranteed to backfire. There are treatment options out there should you ever feel the need to quit.

Yeah-if I didn't know me, I'd think the same thing-"I can quit any time..." but I truly can. I THINK-is 6 years enough time between cigarettes to say I've quit? I just never get the cravings my fellow smokers have described.

 

As for the weed-that's tougher. I go through periods where quitting for a year or so is no big deal but when I'm stressed, I don't even THINK of quitting. I want to say it's easy when I want to- I just rarely WANT to because I have no reason to quit, especially now it's legal. And it helps my anxiety when I choose the right strain. This is what I LOVE about it being legal- I know exactly what I'm buying and how it will make me feel and I can take it back and get something else if it's not right for me. And yeah, I enjoy responsibly. I've never had any issues at all with weed-health, social or legal.

 

I find it takes me about 3 days to quit weed and about 5 times a day, I think about reaching for it and miss not having that escape. With cigarettes, I just decide to stop and I do-no cravings at all past the first day.

[Cerina]

My husband is like that too, mg. He quit smoking when I got pregnant, cold turkey, no issues. Every so often, he'll pick it back up for a night or so, usually at a party or something. But no matter what, he can always stop. He never craves them. Even when he was a regular smoker, he never got antsy when he couldn't smoke even if it was for days at a time.

[monkeygirl]

I just find it odd. I have friends who are so addicted, they say they'd cut off a body part if they could just get rid of the cravings. But put some bite-size dairy treats in my freezer and I'm like Geena Davis in Thelma and Louise; those fuckers will call my name until I have eaten every one of them at 8 minute intervals.

 

So I don't really know if I have an addictive personality or not. Is that a real thing or something we just say, even?

[Pong Messiah]

We don't all get addicted to the same things, so it makes sense - one can have an addictive personality yet be totally "meh" about cocaine. You can be a raging alcoholic yet able to put down your cigarettes without a second thought. We are all unique snowflakes.

[monkeygirl]

okay-then maybe I do have an addictive personality. Are any of you addicted to me?

[Pong Messiah]

I used to be pretty knowledgeable about this, but I'm sure my info is outdated, and there are a lotta gaps now.

 

I don't know if there is a threshold for the number of things a person can become addicted to and whether or not they are an "addictive personality." But I do know certain behaviors and the use of certain substances are automatically "problematic" to some of the more hardline people involved in substance abuse prevention/treatment, so your answer will likely change given who you ask and what their agenda is. In other words, I doubt there is one clear, objective answer to that question.

 

Using your dairy freezer-treats -- if you have a serious psychological (maybe physiological ) addiction to them but nothing else draws you in like that, does that mean you are an addictive personality, or does it just mean you have a narrowly focused sweet tooth?

[Darth Krawlie]

okay-then maybe I do have an addictive personality. Are any of you addicted to me?

YES. I NEED YOU ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

[monkeygirl]

ILU J A Y K I B B E

[monkeygirl]

okay, I KNOW it's just Wiki, but

 

Addictive behaviors are defined by the "excessive, repetitive use of pleasurable activities to cope with unmanageable internal conflict, pressure, and stress.

I'd like to withdraw all previous protestations (excepting for how I can not smoke cigarettes) and go with Ondine's answer: I DO have an addictive personality.

 

But I haven't tried heroin. yet.

[Odine]

I really didn't mean to pontificate if that's how it was coming accross... so apologies if I was doing the hands on hips thing wagging my finger...

 

Thankfully I've managed to curb most my addictions... cept for video games which is kinda healthier I guess.

[monkeygirl]

NOOOO! I just hadn't dome my research!

[DANA-kin Skywalker]

Don't do heroin either. You only have one body, don't screw it up with that crap. Too addictive and dangerous, and so cheap it can easily ruin your life.