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"Feminist" topping TIME's "Which Word Should Be Banned in 2015?" list!


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Well, maybe if they're coming from the other direction on the issue and are all "my feminism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit" or talking about TERF or whatever. But, otherwise, no, very old or very white or very conservative or very many dudes.

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Old conservative white dude: "2+2=4"

Social justice warrior: "Racist! Sexist! Homophobic!"

Old conservative white dude: "2+2 really does equal 4."

Social justice warrior: "You're an old conservative white dude."

 

That, folks, is why people across the spectrum are starting to really hate this crap.

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Old conservative white dude: "2+2=4"

Social justice warrior: "Racist! Sexist! Homophobic!"

Old conservative white dude: "2+2 really does equal 4."

Social justice warrior: "You're an old conservative white dude."

 

That, folks, is why people across the spectrum are starting to really hate this crap.

I dunno. It might work.

 

A lady I know posted this article on her Facebook page, so I felt the need to explain to her that the article was nonsense, and that feminism is only about equality. I thought had a shot, because she was a true feminist in her 20s. It's just that as soon as she scored herself a handsome, well-too-do husband, and started having children, she became a lot less resentful and started losing her way.

 

She wouldn't accept my correction, however, so I asked her when she became an old, conservative, white dude. I'll let you all know how the reeducation goes.

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I saw that article the other day and it bothered the hell out of me. And I have 2 kids.

 

But let me know how the blowback goes!

I'm sure she knows I was being deliberately antagonistic and annoying, so it's doubtful anything tooooo entertaining will happen. Just seems like such a huge about-face from the attitudes she had 10 years ago is all. I know people change, and that it's not uncommon to become more conservative as you get older and financially/socially secure, but... yeah.

 

What bothered you about the article? I just thought it was kinda overwrought and generalized too much; found the comments more entertaining, tbh! I wouldn't mind being armed with a few good points (or just zingers) if you got 'em!

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What bothered you about the article? I just thought it was kinda overwrought and generalized too much; found the comments more entertaining, tbh! I wouldn't mind being armed with a few good points (or just zingers) if you got 'em!

Personally, I thought it was half an article's worth of good material. Sound criticism of the overblown gender caricatures of most feminist thought these days mixed in with maudlin nostalgia for the "good old days" of chivalry and gentlemanliness, and more than one instance of simply missing the point.

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Basically what Kurgan said. Modern-day feminism has run off the tracks in some areas. Women are just as guilty of tearing each other down as men are. It's why women can't take direction from other women. WE know best, after all. Who is she to boss me around? You get the point. I'm sure men just sit back and laugh to themselves. That's the problem with modern-day feminism. We're too busy arguing with each other over who's more feminist instead of getting **** done.

 

As to the whys, Pong, because holding a door open doesn't make you respect women. It doesn't empower them. The author is right that de-emasculating men doesn't empower women, either. I want to be valued for being smart and capable. If I'm pretty, great, but that isn't all a woman should be valued for. (I'd argue it should definitely be low on the priority list, but I'm a hag engineer and not a trophy wife, so YMMV.) I have a engineering friend whose 5-year old daughter asks her often if she's pretty, or if the stick figure she drew was pretty. She refuses to indulge it, and tells her that she's pretty smart (or asks her if her stick figure is smart). I think it wouldn't kill her to tell her daughter that she thinks she's beautiful, but that she's so much more than that. It's not Disney Princess or nothing. I think her daughter is going to end up with a complex, personally. It's nice to hear that you look good, or you look pretty. It's been you base your entire being on it and think it's the only thing you can be valued for is when it's a problem. It's when men base your entire self-worth on it is that it's a problem.

 

I have a daughter and a son. My daughter rarely plays with dolls and dress up. She loves trains and tools, but mostly running around burning energy. She's a little kid. She's really into knights and kingdoms right now (too much Brave and Sleeping Beauty). She tells me she's the King. I sometimes tell her that she's the Queen, because Queens are women who rule, but she shrugs me off. I'm not too bothered, though. I want her to understand that she can still be the hero, ruler, President, etc and be a woman, but I think that nuance is lost on her right now. I'm not going to be obnoxious about it because I think she doesn't think it matters if she's a boy or girl. Honestly, my goal for my daughter is to see that women can do whatever they set their mind to, and to know that I love her, her brother, and her dad. My family matters a great deal to me. Loving them is my first priority, my career is second. I am a good engineer, but I am content to not have to save the world all by myself. I don't want to be the boss. Someone else can sacrifice their personal life.

 

I think I'm the quiet modern-day feminist. I run into quiet sexual discrimination, it's rarely in my face every day. Most people are too smart to be overt. Or they don't even realize it themselves. I've worked hard to get where I am, and honestly, I'm not the smartest person in the room most of the time. But hard work and above-average intelligence actually gets you pretty far. Bosses like hard work better than someone who is smart and gets nothing done, because either they're too smart to finish anything or too lazy to finish.

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Basing your entire self-worth on one trait is detrimental no matter what. Even if that trait is being smart. Children repeatedly told they are smart can develop a paralyzing fear of failure to the point they refuse to try anything or become so obsessed with maintaining that smart image that they over-exert and over-stress themselves trying to prove to themselves and the world that they're not an imposter.

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I saw that article the other day and it bothered the hell out of me. And I have 2 kids.

 

But let me know how the blowback goes!

Now that I'm off work I've read the article again, and it does more than bother the hell out of me. I'll be the first to remark on what a flying circus feminism has become these days, but I'll take it in preference to what the author of this article advocates any day.

 

I suppose there's nothing inherently wrong with raising boys to be "gentlemen" and "hard working providers." But going it alone as the sole breadwinner in this day and age is a good recipe for a lot of inner family conflict over limited financial resources. The pressure's enough to make you completely snap. Trust me on this one. This is experience talking.

 

"Say hello to and make eye contact with everyone you meet." I doubt even the most entrenched feminist would truly object to eye contact, a friendly greeting or even a complement from a fellow she knows. If she does, she's a flake who has problems that go WAY beyond the foolishness you'd find on Jezebel or tumblr. As to whether or not these behaviors from strangers constitutes "harassment" I think is quite debatable, but I can sympathize with people who'd rather be left alone in public. It's less of a compliment than you'd think. Again, this is experience talking (it DOES happen to males, just less frequently) but on the other hand, being male I'm also aware that SOMEONE has to make the first move, and it's usually us. This makes it easy for women to judge. But I digress ...

 

"I want my boys to be chivalrous, to open doors and carry heavy loads." A one size fits all approach to relationships won't work for everyone. If her boys, and the girls they run with are both into this, fine, I suppose. I should hope that they'd be beyond this kind of contrived fussing over and doting on girls by boys. "To ask a girl out on a date and pay the bill without expecting anything in return." I wonder just what this author figures the girls should do in return. I do hope she's aware of just how much pressure she's putting on her boys; of what she's asking of them with no prospect of anything good in return.

 

Know something? I grew up with expectations like this placed on me and do you know what it did? I rebelled against the whole idea of romantic love with every fiber of my being. You see, I had this crazy idea that my life was my own and this hateful, selfish notion that my own happiness was something I was somehow entitled to pursue. What they get for putting me in the Ayn Rand daycare as a tot, I guess. I would hope her sons grow up with similar silly notions.

 

Being anti-feminist does not automatically make one a friend of the male of the species. This God damned train wreck of an article should make that abundantly clear.

 

Not that I quarrel with the notion of men being providers for their families per se, or making gestures of affection towards the women in their lives with whom the nature of the relationship makes such gestures appropriate. My present relationship has not lasted twenty years because I think men and women living in complete physical and emotional bubbles from one another at all times is the way to go. One gets the sense that some feminists would advocate this. It's what I myself believed as a younger man. It doesn't work. This is ALSO experience talking. My problem is with this idea she seems to have that her sons are somehow obligated to pursue, pay and perform for women's sake and amusement, whether either her sons OR the women in question will have it or not.

 

Her criticisms of feminism are, to some extent, well founded, though some of them misinterpret what all but the craziest psycho fembots would believe. Feminist thought, in its present form, is very much about tarring all men with tenuous and easily denied guilt by association and collective responsibility for the sins of some men, and I think we all suffer for it. It's all very implicit, of course. They're not dumb enough to come right out and say it. The politicization of gender differences and framing of issues like rape and domestic violence as evils done by "team male" against "team female" have been utter failures that have done more to hinder than to help progress in these areas. But we have no better alternative here. Honestly, this old fashioned chivalric romance she seems to offer up in its place is, if anything, worse. Or at best, just a different variation of a similar theme.

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Old conservative white dude: "2+2=4"

Social justice warrior: "Racist! Sexist! Homophobic!"

Old conservative white dude: "2+2 really does equal 4."

Social justice warrior: "You're an old conservative white dude."

 

That, folks, is why people across the spectrum are starting to really hate this crap.

Well said. Any fact and/or ideology considered "right of center" is not limited to the usual suspects, but it makes those standing in judgement feel good to pigeonhole a group as being a second away from the extinction block. Meanwhile in reality, negative or at least suspicious opinions of certain platforms (ex. modern feminism) are not as easlily stuffed into stereotyped holes as the allegedly enlightened would desire.

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Allegedly enlightened?

 

I'm sorry, but I can't hear your twattle over the screams of the babies I'm aborting.

Fascinating. You must feel sort of guilty (or know some who you believe I referred to) to have such a pissy reaction. Yes, Pong there are many on the ideological left who can be considered allegedly enlightened. Sociopolitical enlightenment in the present day is often a crumbling mask for arrogance and tribalistic hatred. Please do not tell me you fall into the camp (there it is) thinking the opposite of your so hated "white conservative male" is some pillar of universally correct beliefs?

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