Driver Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Isn't Rick's transformation from lawman to the evil he's fought the entire point of the show? He hasn't killed innocent people yet, so he isn't there-- aside from that, he's still walking that line, which is what this show has as its core plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 There was a good, or even great, episode in there somewhere. Lots of eh in there too though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decypher Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 - Carl should have sealed the deal - If Rick had walked away from the surgeon guy once the first punch was thrown he would have had the moral high ground - Now he just looks like a crazy person - Sasha's PTSD is as annoying as American Sniper - Rosita's sex appeal has gone down 1000% since she ditched the Tomb Raider look - A deep dry moat should be dug around Alexandria to stop walkers, deter a hostile takeover and provide an execution chamber - Michonne hung her sword up too early - Plenty of cannon fodder for next week's finale including Gabriel, hick Bill Hicks, red headed Guile from Street fighter and countless Alexandrians - Hopefully the W killer is saved for next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Isn't Rick's transformation from lawman to the evil he's fought the entire point of the show? He hasn't killed innocent people yet, so he isn't there-- aside from that, he's still walking that line, which is what this show has as its core plan.The point used to be Rick fighting being the immoral survivalist (Shane, the Governor, and others) and trying to be civilized, but aware (Hershel). However, since the prison, instead of using the worst of humanity (Joe's gang, Terminus) as the personal deterrent to losing his soul, he's adopted parts from almost all of the series villains. In a season, he could make a turnaround and come out smelling like roses, but for now, the methods of past evil seems to guide--with force--his every thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 - Carl should have sealed the deal - If Rick had walked away from the surgeon guy once the first punch was thrown he would have had the moral high ground - Now he just looks like a crazy person - Sasha's PTSD is as annoying as American Sniper - Rosita's sex appeal has gone down 1000% since she ditched the Tomb Raider look - A deep dry moat should be dug around Alexandria to stop walkers, deter a hostile takeover and provide an execution chamber - Michonne hung her sword up too early - Plenty of cannon fodder for next week's finale including Gabriel, hick Bill Hicks, red headed Guile from Street fighter and countless Alexandrians - Hopefully the W killer is saved for next seasonRick: that's right: he could have reported that to Deanna, which would only support his warning from their graveside conversation. Sasha: she is suffering, but she's in an environment where closing yourself off with hostility can lead to lonliness she cannot imagine, as i cannot see everyone else tolerating her behavior for too long. The "W" killer seems to be so close, that Daryl and Aaron should have a run-in sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Isn't Rick's transformation from lawman to the evil he's fought the entire point of the show? He hasn't killed innocent people yet, so he isn't there-- aside from that, he's still walking that line, which is what this show has as its core plan.The point used to be Rick fighting being the immoral survivalist (Shane, the Governor, and others) and trying to be civilized, but aware (Hershel). However, since the prison, instead of using the worst of humanity (Joe's gang, Terminus) as the personal deterrent to losing his soul, he's adopted parts from almost all of the series villains. In a season, he could make a turnaround and come out smelling like roses, but for now, the methods of past evil seems to guide--with force--his every thought.That's what I'm saying-- the whole thesis of the Walking Dead is to see the devolution. Until Rick kills innocent people he isn't there yet. If he does, that's when the shark is jumped. The tension of him getting worse and worse is where the drama is. Shane killed innocent people. Rick is losing his marbles, but he hasn't done it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevil Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Glen is the key to the earlier argument about Rick. He is the personification of good and they're using him well to show just how far Rick has slipped down the road. If you can't see how far Rick has gone and how much he's losing himself you just have to look at the choices Glen makes and compare them to Rick's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoLA Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Man, Rick is losing it now! I was with him up until he started waving the gun around at everyone. I will give him credit for still giving a warning first and not starting the fight. But even the ones who would normally side with him are shutting him down. BAM, in steps Michonne!While I do think Deanna had a good point with exiling Pete if need be, I also see Rick's side with that leaving him to come back and cause more trouble, something he has had to deal with more than once already.And who else wanted to punch out Nicholas while listening to his BS testimony?! Rrrrr, I'm glad Deanna didn't immediately take him at his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheRuralJuror Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 This season has been nerve wracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue 3 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 On the 'W' thing - that first episode of this run when Tyreese bit the bullet had the warning that "wolves were coming"...Great set of episodes though - our guys are doing the right things, but if we'd been following the rubbish 5 year story of this town, then they are the bad guys. Like it! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 - Plenty of cannon fodder for next week's finale including... red headed Guile from Street fighter...Noooooooooooo!Abraham is hilarious nowadays and I'll be sad to see him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoLA Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 If Abraham does go, I hope it isn't like he did in the comic. So random! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumberSix Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Predictions before the finale starts in ten minutes: * Rick dies* Daryl and Aaron hook up* Abraham finally realizes the Fu Manchu is out* Morgan does ANYTHING Annnnd GO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Daryl dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Incredible finale, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumberSix Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Wow. Just...wow. It just wouldn't stop escalating. * Morgan does ANYTHING 1/4. Nailed it! I'm a genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I may actually want to re-watch this episode to properly articulate thoughts on it. Quick hits:-MORGAN. I imagine Morgan as Denzel from The Book of Eli. He delivered on that end tonight!- I still dislike how characters are susceptible to lapses in judgment at times. Daryl and Aaron should have checked the trailers in some way to see if there were any more walkers about. Rick, I think, should have been yelling and screaming from the moment he saw the gate was open. The characters are written to thrive in a zombie apocalypse 90% of the time, but the other 10% they make silly decisions made to increase drama. The show is fairly organic, but the times it isn't still really stick out.- I love the way the town hall was handled with everyone speaking.- Gabriel sucks.- Nicholas still sucks, and he and Glenn kinda patching things up was silly (someone would have killed the other way before that happened) but whatever, not a big deal.- So, are the Wolves just the two guys? Surely not, right? Were those the same two guys that Morgan dispatched at the beginning of the episode?- I was worried we were heading towards a full overthrow of Alexandria or Rick getting exiled and the whole group leaving. There's still a lot of stories to tell regarding our group assimilating into "society" again - very happy we're still there. Like Six said, it just kept escalating. I kept waiting for our requisite "big" character death, which I so often feel are incredibly forced and it never came. Oh and, MORGAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoLA Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I need to get a shirt made up stating "Rick was right!" Morgan...does that stick he's carrying have Bad Ass Mofo carved into it?! The way he owned those two at the start was hella cool.I liked how Michonne knocking out Rick was to protect him and not the townspeople. Woo Michonne!Props to Glen for sticking to the moral high ground and not killing Nicholas! For as much as I think he is more than justified for killing him at this point, I appreciated that he didn't.Abraham and Eugene making up! Awww, you guys.Sasha...Okay, you're getting weird now. Did those walkers look that comfortable?How is it Daryl and Aaron did not hear the walkers in the trailers before they opened one? Those things aren't sound proof!Carol continues to be stone cold this episode. Stone. Cold! I love how her character has changed over the course of this series.Gabriel...Oh, Gabriel you ridiculous douche muffin, why couldn't you just let that walker eat you? Thanks for leaving the gate open, by the way.Finally the townspeople are seeing Rick and co. point of view! It only took Deanna's son and husband deaths to get that across, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I may actually want to re-watch this episode to properly articulate thoughts on it. Quick hits:-MORGAN. I imagine Morgan as Denzel from The Book of Eli. He delivered on that end tonight!- I still dislike how characters are susceptible to lapses in judgment at times. Daryl and Aaron should have checked the trailers in some way to see if there were any more walkers about. Rick, I think, should have been yelling and screaming from the moment he saw the gate was open. The characters are written to thrive in a zombie apocalypse 90% of the time, but the other 10% they make silly decisions made to increase drama. The show is fairly organic, but the times it isn't still really stick out.- I love the way the town hall was handled with everyone speaking.- Gabriel sucks.- Nicholas still sucks, and he and Glenn kinda patching things up was silly (someone would have killed the other way before that happened) but whatever, not a big deal.- So, are the Wolves just the two guys? Surely not, right? Were those the same two guys that Morgan dispatched at the beginning of the episode?- I was worried we were heading towards a full overthrow of Alexandria or Rick getting exiled and the whole group leaving. There's still a lot of stories to tell regarding our group assimilating into "society" again - very happy we're still there. Like Six said, it just kept escalating. I kept waiting for our requisite "big" character death, which I so often feel are incredibly forced and it never came. Oh and, MORGAN.Morgan: about time. I do think his semi-pacifist stand will lead to conflict with the Governor 2.0 (you might know him as Rick Grimes) - especially if NuGovernor learns Morgan did not kill the wolves he encountered, only to have them reach the safe zone to...yeah. Sort of another situation similar to Carl's guilt over not killing the walker who killed Dale. Rick: still in the wrong. He only sees the walker world as functioning in one way--kill, kill, kill. The Governor, Terminus and Joe's group all shared that. It matters not the "why"--it is the so-called solution that links their behavior. I think Deanna's husband being sacrifieces was an incredibly cheap, all too convenient reason for Rick to finally get his wish to ape Shane by killing The Husband. Further, if it took TWO personal losses to change Deanna's mind, that makes the character seem like a dimwit at best. Father Gabriel: Unlike those who have a hard on for hating this character, the episode moved him to an emotional place so bleak (and seeing the same in Sasha) that he could finally try to shed the demons of his past. To sort of wrap up everything since the mid season finale, Maggie is not only able to help Gabriel, but restore her own faith. Glenn cannot be the only legacy of Hershel's beliefs on the show. Michonne: I wonder if her quick acceptance of being lied to will ever rear its head again. Rick sort of complimented her by saying he did not want her to talk him out of the gun / insurrection plot, so i guess that speaks to his level of er..respect for her as a friend. Daryl: For a guy who has seen his share of traps and cunning advesaries in the walker world, he was pretty stupid at the truck trap. Also, walkers have been proven to be very sensitive to noise, so why didn't walking, talking and ripping a licence plate from a truck stir the walkers enough for Daryl to know what was up? All too convenient stupidty at the expense of a well established character. Carol: So much growth, and no matter how dark she can be, it never goes to the brutal level of other survivors. Most of her actions are a response to no-win situations, instead of just using the state of the world to slip into easy, nihilistic behavior. After Jessie goes bye-bye (you know that's coming), Carol would be the choice to play surrogate mother, but if McBride's Talking Dead statment holds weight, Carol will not allow herself to get close to another child. Glenn: He's now a man of some faith, and cannot bring himself to kill for revenge, but Nicholas is a train wreck, with at least two people in the car he's set to hit. Not exactly in the way presented in the comic, but this will not end well no matter how the TV version spins this. Eugene & Abraham: Glad their spat is over. The actors work too well together as bookends of personality to keep that tension going. Overall, the season finale was interesting, but if i had one wish granted--actually two, it would be no more meanigless main character deaths (this season broke the record on that), and no more experienced character becoming morons just to toss them into drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoLA Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Further, if it took TWO personal losses to change Deanna's mind, that makes the character seem like a dimwit at best. Regarding this...I think there were two reasons for her immediate turn at the end of the episode. There were still a lot of questions regarding the circumstances in Aiden's death that she was still trying to work out. Like despite what Nicholas told her about Glenn's so-called distracting Aiden and actively trying to get him killed while escaping, yet they brought him back with them. And then there's her husband being murdered right in front of her by the town wifebeater at that moment! She was acting out of grief and rage right there. I wasn't surprised she told Rick to do it. I'm not touching the Rick comment even though I still don't see him in the same camp as Shane, Governor and Terminus peeps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Rick can still be wrong, but I don't see him as The Governor either-- mainly because he came to his senses about killing innocent people to make a point. His talks with Carl and Michonne swayed him. Plus now he'll have Morgan there as the guy who bookmarked him at the beginning. ( I would like to know when Morgan learned staff fu. Some time after being crazy I guess?) Rick isn't the Governor until he actually starts killing innocent people. That's the line he walks, he got close, but he didn't do it. Once he does that, the show islost-- but I don't think he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Can we talk about what a great line "I was thinking, 'how many of you do I have to kill to save your lives'" is? That was awesome. Summed up his (and theirs!) issues appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 You're also seeing a scale of morals here. Rick will kill people he thinks deserve it, or have compromised their authority. But Glen isn't willing to go that far. Carol is willing to go way dark. The scale is what makes it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Rick earned renegade points by executing Pete, doing it for the greater good. Glenn earned paragon points for letting that scumbag live, giving him a discount at shopkeepers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Can we talk about what a great line "I was thinking, 'how many of you do I have to kill to save your lives'" is? That was awesome. Summed up his (and theirs!) issues appropriately.Yes, his judge, jury and executioner rant. After Deanna's typically politician-like flip flop on her rules (ordering death), she's now provided Rick with an absolute sense of vindication (based more on his pursuit of ass than anything else). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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