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Looking Back: Harry Potter


ShadowDog
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But this is kinda what I mean-- we all love and hate all sorts of things and we have discussions as such on these boards, but say you don't like Harry Potter and people just lose their shit.

 

Look-- I said my stance was kind of snobby, I know it and I admit it. Just like I have when we talk about the Star Wars EU, my taste in books is very narrow and different from my taste in movies.

 

Oh, and...

I heard they were both influenced by T.H. White books

EDIT: The big clincher that makes everyone lose their **** is that Book of Magic also contains an adopted orphan boy, who learns of his higher calling, and it contained magic.

But the fact is that Gaiman and Rowling were inspired by The Sword in the Stone. It was about Arthur (The Wart) a boy who was an orphan and adopted and was made to feel inferior to his adopted brother meeting a wizard and learning about his higher calling and magic and yadayadayada...

People go especially crazy when they mention "Harry Potter ripped the owl idea from Book of Magic!' when the fact is that both owls were ripped from Archimedes the owl in The Sword in the Stone.

Harry went to wizarding school. Rowling went completely in her own direction with the mythology.

I see no less a parallel with Star Wars. A New Hope was basically an EXACT RIP of the Japanese story The Hidden Fortress masked in Flash Gordon. George admitted he hastily used the plot of The Hidden Fortress to turn his Star Wars idea into a script.

And Flash Gordon...A young blonde dude who, accompanied by his wise older friend, travelled to another planet and defeated an evil tyrant, Ming, who had a serious Asian vibe going on. Do we forget Darth Vader's design is a rip of a Samurai?

I think you were heavily biased here comparing Harry Potter and Star Wars. Tarantino films are a whole different story. What frustrates me is yes his films are unique but in a way really not. Like Woody Allen films and Simpsons and Family Guy many shots and soundtrack music we've come to love from him are direct rips from other films. Is that bad? No. But I cringe when people say they didn't rip.

Thanks for presenting the most drive-thru versions of what inspired Star Wars that can be gleaned from pretty much anywhere on the internet. As usual, your surface level observations that you think are deep thoughts do nothing but tell us obvious shit things we already know.

 

Everyone and their dog likes to say Star Wars is a blatant rip off of Hidden Fortress since the moment Lucas admitted it was an inspiration. Have you seen Hidden Fortress? I have, repeatedly-- the lines of inspiration are there, but it's hardly a direct rip off. If you want to see what went into Star Wars, try this site out instead of a google search: http://www.moongadget.com/origins/index.html

 

That's the most comprehensive study of Lucas' inspirations I've ever seen.

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yeah the snobbery is the only part that bothers me. I legitimately don't care if people hate something I like. it just doesn't bother me.

 

and the only reason the snobbery bothers me is I don't understand it. usually even if I disagree with someone I still at least get where they are coming from. but in this case ... I just cant get my mind there. in this case I just don't understand why this would bother somebody.

 

the other thing is I've read what actually YA fiction (The Maze Runner, Monument, etc) and there is a big difference between that stuff and Harry Potter. those books have little subtlety and no complexity. Painting Harry Potter with that same brush is just flat out wrong. they can all be intended for the same audience but there is a clear and visible difference in quality. Believe me don't believe me I don't give a s***. I'm just telling you what's real. it's like saying Breaking Bad and Revolution have the same quality because they both have the Gus actor in them

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Yeah, I still think the whole thing is a bunch of lame rip-offs of about a million things that came before it, and I still am annoyed by the fact that grown adults exploded the NYT best seller list, threatened to ban people from message boards over spoilers and several other instances of idiocy over books MEANT FOR CHILDREN.

I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT, TOO, IF IT WASN'T FOR THOSE MEDDLING KIDS!

 

My feelings about snobbery and reading are pretty well-known. Just give me a fun book with spaceships, and I'm happy. (I'm currently reading an ARC of a middle grade SF series that's pretty awesome and I think everyone should read it. And I've been told I should write middle grade SF. We'll see.) I also have no problem reading smut or fanfiction or whatever. Reading is FUNdamental!

 

 

But getting back to Harry Potter - I haven't read the books since Deathly Hallows Part 1 came out and I'd be really interested in going back and seeing how my opinions have changed since then. I remember DH being my favorite book, followed by OotP. Fred and George are still my favorites. I think I'd appreciate Hermione much more now than I did before.

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I'll even agree with him that the first couple/few are close to, if not in line with, typical young adult fiction. But I think you're dealing with very different books by the end of the series, both tonaly and in quality.

I DID appreciate this about Harry Potter actually-- that the age level of the book went along with Harry getting older.

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I'll even agree with him that the first couple/few are close to, if not in line with, typical young adult fiction. But I think you're dealing with very different books by the end of the series, both tonaly and in quality.

Which makes sense. Her intended audience of children had obviously grown to include every other person on the planet. Not to mention that the audience had literally grown up alongside the characters. Personally, I was 18 (an adult only in the strictest legal sense, trust me) the first time I read a Potter book but 25 by the time the last one came out.

 

Btw, Fred & George are still my faves as well!! And I do believe my appreciation for Hermione has grown exponentially in the past year or two alone.

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New question. In JK's original draft of Chamber of Secrets, Dumbledore explained to Harry that Riddle's diary was a Horcrux and what those were and how they related to Voldy. She ultimately decided it was too early to reveal that and did another draft removing all that stuff.

 

How do you feel about that? Like it the way it turned out or do you think she should have left it as is?

 

Likewise, Arthur Weasely was supposed to die from the snake bite in Order and JK's original draft had it that way. She changed her mind and delayed the publication an entire year so she could rewrite the book so he survived.

 

How do you feel about that redraft? Imagine Ron and the rest of family being grief stricken. The fight with Ron in book 7 makes more sense if he's still mourning his father on top of everything else.

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1) I think the search for Horcruxes would have gotten very tiresome if it had to take place over 5 books rather than 2. But I can't remember Dumbledore's motivation for keeping that secret... had he not confirmed it yet?

 

2) I would've been fine with that. I wasn't particularly attached to Arthur. Ron quasi-blaming Harry for his father's death would have been an interesting dynamic. I'd basically make any trade to keep Sirius around. Gone but not forgotten.

 

To the YA/evolution of the books point above: I was in 3rd grade when I read Sorcerer's Stone and getting ready to start my senior year when Deathly Hallows came out. I think that's about as on the nose as you can get for "growing up" with the books/characters.

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As an author, I understand the importance of killing your darlings. But I am so glad Arthur didn't die. I think it would have been too heavy for that part of the book. It needed a dark, tense moment that put the threat right out in the open, but not with death as the result.

 

Introducing the horcuxes earlier on is interesting to think about, but in the end I don't think it would've worked. One of the things I like most about the series it that it gets way more complicated as time goes on, and that really only works if the horcruxes aren't discovered until later on.

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1) I think the search for Horcruxes would have gotten very tiresome if it had to take place over 5 books rather than 2. But I can't remember Dumbledore's motivation for keeping that secret... had he not confirmed it yet?

Dumbledore didn't figure out it was a horcrux until later on. I'm pretty sure he explains it to Harry at some point during HBP.

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1) I think the search for Horcruxes would have gotten very tiresome if it had to take place over 5 books rather than 2. But I can't remember Dumbledore's motivation for keeping that secret... had he not confirmed it yet?

Dumbledore didn't figure out it was a horcrux until later on. I'm pretty sure he explains it to Harry at some point during HBP.

 

Exactly. As ShadowDog mentioned, Dumbledore mentioning the Horcrux was only a draft of CoS then she changed it.

 

ShadowDog: How do I feel about that? Contrary to most people here. That's why I was lost on 6 & 7. For me, the series just popped up with important magic that was too important to not be mentioned earlier.

 

(Ex: Apparition wasn't mentioned until Book 3. Then to explain why it wasn't introduced earlier: Well, you need a license for it!)

 

I wasn't that upset but then Horcuxes pushed me over the edge. For me, Book 6 was just too late for me to be saying 'Oh, we're on Horcuxes now?'

 

But I totally get why you guys love that progression. No need to explain. It just wasn't for Ramon Atila.

 

I was in 3rd grade when I read Sorcerer's Stone and getting ready to start my senior year when Deathly Hallows came out. I think that's about as on the nose as you can get for "growing up" with the books/characters.

Me too. What a feeling, huh? Don't forget WE were 9 year old also when South Park came out and Anakin's age when TPM came out.

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