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Avengers 3/4(!)


125 replies to this topic

#76
Tex

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It’s funny to me because Marvel will be Marvel. Their formula is to raise the stakes to a cosmic degree and then start “killing” chacacters off. On one hand, I’m glad they can do it on such a big stage, but on another hand it reminds me why I quit comics 30 years ago.

The problem with comic book movies is that they have nowhere to go. The good guys don’t win. The bad guys don’t win. All you’re left with are the bells and whistles. Rinse, Wash. Repeat.

I hope it’s entertaining when I eventually see it on video, but damn I wish the whole thing would just go away.

#77
El Chalupacabra

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Tex, IMHO, if you liked Civil War, the GOTG 1 (I haven't seen 2 yet), and Avengers 1,  think most people are going to like Infinity War.  Definitely worth a watch at home, if not in the theater.  

 

As an aside, I LOVE Mantis!  Loved the line "We kick names, and take ass."  I couldn't stop laughing for like several minutes. 

 

Not really a complaint, but why did Black Widow have blonde hair?  Did someone decide people might confuse Black Widow with Scarlet Witch or something?



#78
Poe Dameron

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Not really a complaint, but why did Black Widow have blonde hair?  Did someone decide people might confuse Black Widow with Scarlet Witch or something?

 

I'll make it head canon that she and Steve Rogers changed their appearance so they wouldn't be quite so recognizable while on the run.

 

Work for you?


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#79
El Chalupacabra

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Not really a complaint, but why did Black Widow have blonde hair?  Did someone decide people might confuse Black Widow with Scarlet Witch or something?

 

I'll make it head canon that she Steve Rogers changed their appearance so they wouldn't be quite so recognizable while on the run.

 

Work for you?

 

Actually, it does!   Explains Cap's beard, as well. 



#80
Tank

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And Falcon's... sort of beard?

#81
Tex

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It’s probably just an excuse to sell new merchandise. Why would a kid want a new Black Widow or Cap action figure if they didn’t have a different look?

Or Tank, for that matter?

#82
El Chalupacabra

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And Falcon's... sort of beard?

 

 

Speaking of Falcon, one thing I kind of wish we saw was ....

 

Spoiler



#83
ShadowDog

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Not really a complaint, but why did Black Widow have blonde hair?  Did someone decide people might confuse Black Widow with Scarlet Witch or something?

 
I'll make it head canon that she and Steve Rogers changed their appearance so they wouldn't be quite so recognizable while on the run.
 
Work for you?

I don't think that's even Head Canon. It's more obvious than anything else.

#84
El Chalupacabra

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Not really a complaint, but why did Black Widow have blonde hair?  Did someone decide people might confuse Black Widow with Scarlet Witch or something?

 
I'll make it head canon that she and Steve Rogers changed their appearance so they wouldn't be quite so recognizable while on the run.
 
Work for you?

I don't think that's even Head Canon. It's more obvious than anything else.

 

Considering its been a while since I saw Civil War, and I am several MCU films behind, it isn't all that obvious to me, until Poe reminded me of the events of Civil War.

 

But I can see how it can be obvious to someone who is more up to speed on the MCU than I am.  



#85
Darth Wicket

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I liked the movie, but was wondering about...

 

Spoiler



#86
Darth Krawlie

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Apparently they purposely filmed some things to mislead fans. And trailers almost always have different takes/deleted scenes in them, as they're created long before the final cut.



#87
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I know sometimes there are things in a trailer that don't make the final cut (Thor and Thanos had a few lines that weren't in the movie but in the trailer), but that other one seemed to be a major plot point. I can't remember another instance where a trailer was made to intentionally mislead fans. Anyone?

 

I'm not outraged. :D Just curious.



#88
pavonis

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It wasn't just a different take or a deleted scene. It was made specifically for the marketing campaign. They're doing things like that on purpose now, to avoid spoilers by misleading everyone in the advertisements. At least this way people who are super sensitive to spoiler material can relax a bit. Even the advertising of the films are deliberately avoiding spoilers for them. 



#89
Tank

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Marvel does it all the time. So have all the recent SW films.

#90
Justus

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And Falcon's... sort of beard?

 

 

Speaking of Falcon, one thing I kind of wish we saw was ....

 

Spoiler

 

What? Why? Its not his fault Vision followed orders to fire on the Falcon, Sam was protecting himself, and if someone else was a casualty, blame the individuals giving and following orders.

 

The movie:

 

Eh. This was supposed to top off 10 years of Marvel movies with something big and "historic" but it was so much disjointed noise and telegraphing. Its nowhere near the best of the MCU, and while there's a second part to this story yet to be released, I doubt the Russos have wrapped this up in any satisfactory manner. At least there were a few Cap moments, but even the MCU's best character could not fix the many issues with this movie.



#91
Robin

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I watched it too. Yay!

Even though Thor 2 was so bleh, Lokis arc throughout the MCU and consequently Thors is nice.

The familial abuse arc with Thanos, Gamora and Nebula in particular continues to be one of the best examples of evil in the MCU. That is other than the obvious hey murdering is bad mmkay.

The Vision and Wanda arc (ignoring their comic history) felt a little tacked on in Civil War for me, but here it flowed.

Tony continues to be the MCUs Dr. McCoy from Star Trek. In that I mean each story gumbifies his character in order to move whatever plot they want forward. We need a guy to be anti-establishment... Tony. We need a guy to be the establishment... Tony. We need a fly by the seat of your pants tactician... Tony. We need someone to be a master strategist... Tony. We need a comedian... Tony. We need someone to be near suicidally depressed... Tony.

The film opens with a typical jobbing of the big guy to get a new villain over, which is fine however I feel that fight in particular lacked impact. It didnt seem to be happening. Of course, duh, it is CG but... regardless something about it was off for me. This problem continues for several of the fights with Thanoss goons. Sometimes those fights felt great, other times within them it didnt seem quite... I dunno... done maybe. The Earthbound survivors grouping was atrocious in its needs more time to cook quality, more rendering passes whatever.

Who survived and who doesnt had little impact for me, beyond the arc examples above. Overall it felt like they threw darts at photos on the wall to decide who went and who stayed, this coupled with obvious time shenanigans to come left much of those moments as unsubstantial as the dust they turned into.

In Short:

The film has great one liners and a handful of poignant moments, with fantastic set pieces and dazzling action. I dont think I need to adjust the ranking of my top five MCU films however.

#92
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I think you're dead wrong about them throwing darts to decide who does and doesn't die from THE SNAP. I think it was very calculated. Consider:

Most of those who survived are long time MCU vets with wrapped up character arcs and actors who have expiring contracts.

Most of those who died are relatively new characters with either announced sequels or expected sequels coming soon.

What this tells me is that bringing everybody back is going to be a one way trip. Most, if not all, of the survivors are going to have to sacrifice themselves to bring everybody else back. So I think the selection of who was sorted into which group was very calculated indeed.
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#93
pavonis

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It was definitely calculated. But why assume anyone will return? They're all replaceable!

#94
Poe Dameron

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I think you're dead wrong about them throwing darts to decide who does and doesn't die from THE SNAP.

 

Agreed, but that was my problem with it.  They chose the characters who we knew were going to come back to die.  Literally everyone with a confirmed sequel outside of Rocket was dusted.  I just have a big problem with knowing that the emotional climax rendered all the dead people safe and the living people in peril.

 

It's just so backwards.



#95
pavonis

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They made the film before Black Panther was released. They didn't know it would be as big as it was. Besides why kill the characters everyone expected to die?

#96
Poe Dameron

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They made the film before Black Panther was released. They didn't know it would be as big as it was.

That's one character.  And they certainly wanted to make a sequel for even if it wasn't a slam dunk during production.

 

Besides why kill the characters everyone expected to die?

 

Because they might stay dead and there's some actual resonance to it.  I'm not against a shocking death or two.  I didn't expect Gamora or Vision to be on the chopping block, but, as two of the four characters that might really be dead, it wouldn't be a detraction.  Though I kinda expect both to be resurrected as well.

 

Of course it doesn't help that both Gamora and The Vision had very similar scenes where they ask their loved on to kill them to stop Thanos from getting a stone, they hesitate, finally do it, and Thanos just turns around and deletes it.  I mean, that was lazy right?  I don't think there was any connection between the two.

 

In other news, someone decided to help us find out if we're dust or not:

 

http://www.didthanoskill.me/

 

I have been slain for the good of the universe.


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#97
pavonis

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Lazy, or rhyming? Thanos got two of the stones by threatening to kill someone. The writers could've done it differently, but they didn't so it's thematic not lazy. Anyway it's only half way through the story, even if they claim its self-contained.

Thanos got me too. Oh well. The suspense would've killed me anyway.
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#98
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Dex, I am in total agreement that the survivors will make sacrfices to bring back other heroes. It is telegraphed in Cap reminding everyone that they do not trade lives for lives. Of course he is talking about a philosophy for how to manage a battlefield but it seems very likely that will spin out to a sequel in regards to saving those already lost.

The throwing darts feeling I had was born from how poorly, as I said earlier how atrociously, the Earthbound Survivors grouping was on camera. That scene at the end where our survivors are essentially posing for a group shot is just so horribly constructed and realized that it led me to believe there was a lot of indecision about just who was going to be in that scene. It doesnt match the quality of the rest of the film.

As for the self contained aspect, just looking at the Thanos arc it was resolved essentially Fromm beginning to end in this film. So I can totally get the creatives harping on this film being self contained, even if it is a bit of a cheaty way to look at it.

That said, I do agree that the methods used by Thanos were lazy or repetitive. Both in story and from a creative stand point. His torture method reminded me a lot of Nolans Batman just yelling at everyone to tell him where to look for a bomb. Its like, dude, you are suppose to be super intelligent... dazzle me with some Sherlock Holmes deduction.

Edit: Its my Margarita night, so this post has taken so much effort to be legible. LOL If it is only so in my own minds eye that is why.

#99
Poe Dameron

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Lazy, or rhyming? Thanos got two of the stones by threatening to kill someone. The writers could've done it differently, but they didn't so it's thematic not lazy.

Strange handing over the stone so Tony could be the big damn hero in the next film was sufficiently different that I didn't particularly mind or even notice (largely because I was distracted by how obvious they were being with the set-up).  It's not like Thanos was expecting it in that case.  He wasn't threatening to kill Stark, he was just gonna straight-up do it when the offer was made and Thanos was like, "Really?  Yeah, cool."

 

I have a hard time just giving a pass on doing something twice labeling it thematic just because.  Writers do get lazy sometimes and I'm really not sure what the point was in doing the whole "kill me before he gets the stone" thing twice in very similar circumstances.  It doesn't feel thematic, and I'm don't see the connection.  Heck, in both cases, the person who was supposed to be doing the mercy kill were themselves dusted and will presumably have limited screen time in the next movie, so I rather think that it's not even going to be addressed beyond what we have.



#100
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Ya'lls over-thinking it.

The actual deaths will stick, save for Gamora. The dust- deaths will be reversed simply because it's going to be the goal of the heroes to do so.

Anyone who has had their first movie only come out is most definitely safe. Strange, Black Panther, Spider-Man, and the Guardians especially. T'challa especially. It doesn't matter which was filmed first they've had long term plans for him for ages, even before his movie was a hit.

You can't kill half the universe and let it stand, obviously it will be undone... and when you have the soul and time stones on top of that? Anyone could get a pass.

Sacrifices will have to come, sure, but look to who has filled out their contracts-- Cap, Thor, Iron Man.
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