Mom in jail for helping daughter have an abortion

[Pong Messiah]

Ugh. Try to help your daughter do the only rational, moral thing and get sent to the slammer. How disgusting.

[Copper]

I started reading the story, and then I just had to stop. I was already getting too angry.

[Guest]

Given the prevalence of fake pills on the Internet, the woman is guilty of being recklessly stupid. Which is fine if it's for yourself, but reckless stupidity while caring for a minor is something completely different.

[Evolence]

If she had her daughter sign an informed consent form, I fail to see the issue.

[Pong Messiah]

Yeah, fake pills or not, you gotta get the baby out before it hatches, before two lives are ruined.

[RelentlessMalice]

Yawn. If you dont want a kid then use protection/birth control or do not have freaking sex. How hard is that to do?

 

I think its pretty scary for a mother to buy pills like that on the internet. Talk about possibly harming your own kid. There are so many bogus stuff out there.

 

Anyway poor judgement all around, starting with daughter, then mom and then law enforcement.

[RelentlessMalice]

Then again as I tell my students. "You cannot plea ignorance in a court of law that you didnt know something was illegal,because obeying the law is a citizens duty."

[monkeygirl]

If you dont want a kid then use protection/birth control or do not have freaking sex. How hard is that to do?

*sigh*

 

Where do I begin?

[Evolence]

Trust me RM, I've bought a LOT sketchier things than supposed pills over the internet-- often from Asia.

[Guest]

Working in a pharmacy, I experienced the joy of letting people know that the things they "found" weren't what they wanted. Normally it was relatively safe, but not in every case.

 

One can make an argument in favor of getting rid of the whole prescription process (although I think it's a flawed argument - we're already over prescribed as a nation, allowing antibiotics to be over the counter would increase the problem), but the fact is that the reason for her arrest and punishment have nothing to do with the abortion and everything to do with purchasing and dispensing medication illegally. And even a person who is even marginally in the medical field should know better.

[Tex]

Anybody that orders drugs over the Internet is ****ing stupid.

[Pong Messiah]

Even if the arrest wasn't for the abortion, I have no doubt it was pursued by some creepy zealot using the law as a means to an end to punish this woman who just wanted to do the right thing for her daughter. Of this, I have no doubt.

 

I mean, if they'll put Al Capone away for taxes, you know the Bible Brigade (who are all abusing prescription medication, btw) has no problem punishing this nice lady by any means necessary. It's about revenge for allowing the daughter the right to control her own body, pure and simple.

[Evolence]

Pong, I didn't read your exact article, but I read one on this very topic. In what I read, it wasn't clear what the woman was being arrested for. Was it:

 

1. Dispensing prescription drugs without a license? I can kind of see logic here, but the drugs were not a controlled substance.

2. Dispensing drugs to a minor?

3. Ordering drugs from outside the US? A stupid law that only exists to protect Big Pharma's profit margins.

4. Some combination of the above?

 

I am with you Pong. There might be a slight bit of legitimacy to the state's case, but it all really boils down punishing a mother who sought controversial medical care for her daughter. People need to wake up and realize that the law is NOT about protecting people. Laws are about one thing: Control.

[RelentlessMalice]

Trust me RM, I've bought a LOT sketchier things than supposed pills over the internet-- often from Asia.

So that explains what happened to you? Just kidding. Too much crazy shit out there.

 

Oh and monkeygirl sigh all you want but believe it or not that is an actual option in the playbook for people. It just requires some patience,control,and a few dollars. If you dont have those few things you shouldnt be having sex to begin with.

[Guest El Chalupacabra]

What I wanna know is why didn't the mom just have her daughter just mega-dose on some vitamin c and cinnamon, and take an extended dip into a hot tub. It's like nature's coat hanger.

[Ms. Spam]

In some religions birth control is forbidden! FORBIDDEN. I don't want to live in that world. So I can totally see people buying things on the internet. It is a giant store of if I buy this pill it will fix EVERYTHING. I have some sort of point in this but it's late and I don't care. Suffice it to say, dumbasses that open up for seed easily will be looking for the same easy answer later for weed killer.

[monkeygirl]

Anybody that orders drugs over the Internet is ****ing stupid.

My insurance company won't pay for any drugs that I DON'T order over the internet. I have little choice-I can't afford the non-health plan costs of my meds.

 

 

 

Oh and monkeygirl sigh all you want but believe it or not that is an actual option in the playbook for people. It just requires some patience,control,and a few dollars. If you dont have those few things you shouldnt be having sex to begin with.

You say: How hard is that to do? Well-in 2013, about 3.3 million pregnancies in the USA alone were unwanted. So clearly, it's pretty difficult for at least half the couples in this country. Let's add that no method of birth control in which two persons actually have the sex is 100% effective-not even doubling or tripling methods is, so what you're expecting is that everyone who does not wish to reproduce right now, not have intercourse at all. How realistic is that? Let's not forget that not everyone lives our First World lifestyle. Many the world over don't even have access to birth control. Again-this might be something that's simple and easy for you-but not everyone is in your situation.

 

You seem to have the same view of this that Paratech did-that all unplanned pregnancies occur among consenting adults who just casually decide to **** without birth control because they just can't help their horny selves and those people are so lacking in moral character that they deserve to be saddled with an unwanted child because of their frivolous choices. I truly don't mean this to be sarcastic, but it does 'read" that way, but- It's really nice that your life has never been touched by unwanted pregnancies, but please don't make the mistake of sticking your head in the sand because you can't see beyond your own nose.

[monkeygirl]

 

 

Even if the arrest wasn't for the abortion, I have no doubt it was pursued by some creepy zealot using the law as a means to an end to punish this woman who just wanted to do the right thing for her daughter. Of this, I have no doubt.

 

Really? I'm assuming it was the hospital. Don't they have a legal obligation to report things like this?

[monkeygirl]

 

 

In what I read, it wasn't clear what the woman was being arrested for.

 

In December 2013, the Montour County district attorney, Rebecca Warren, charged Whalen with a felony for offering medical consultation about abortion without a medical license and with three misdemeanors: for endangering the welfare of a child, dispensing drugs without being a pharmacist and assault.

[Evolence]

This is what is so laughable about assault charges. To me, there should be some sort of malicious intent needed to even THINK of charging someone with that. This lady's actions may technically meet the legalese definition of assault (to cause bodily harm to another), but it is outrageous to think that this lady had an ounce of ill intent in her actions. fuck the state.

[Destiny Skywalker]

 

You seem to have the same view of this that Paratech did-that all unplanned pregnancies occur among consenting adults who just casually decide to **** without birth control because they just can't help their horny selves and those people are so lacking in moral character that they deserve to be saddled with an unwanted child because of their frivolous choices. I truly don't mean this to be sarcastic, but it does 'read" that way, but- It's really nice that your life has never been touched by unwanted pregnancies, but please don't make the mistake of sticking your head in the sand because you can't see beyond your own nose.

 

My experience is that most of the young adults/teens that are reckless about sex are just lazy, cheap, or "don't like how it feels". Condoms are fairly easy to obtain, affordable, and are probably the best option because it protects from STDs and generally has a low failure rate. When I was a young adult/late teen, many of my friends were just too cheap or lazy to pick up condoms. Fortunately, when we got to college, the student health center had them for free so at least the cheap excuse went away. When I went for my annual exam, they always gave me a paper lunch bag full of them along with the birth control pills I came for. I think a year's supply was $5? It was through the county health department, and it was a great program, even if the nurses were burnt-out, unpleasant a-holes.

 

I definitely understand that supposedly more convenient options like the pill are not always affordable (hopefully that's being fixed with recent healh care reforms). But really, for teens and most women (who don't take pills properly), condorms are a much better form of birth control than pills, and are cheaper. IUDs are a better option than pills, but they do a pretty good job of scaring women off with all the side effects.

 

Side note, I've been on some form of the pill since I was 19, for other reasons. But even once I became sexually active, I never had a single oops because I take my pills properly. And I am a fertile myrtle who gets pregnant if my husband so much as smiles at me when I'm off the pill. Right now I'm on a super anal retentive form that you have to take every 22-26 hours or you become fertile.

[Guest]

 

Anybody that orders drugs over the Internet is ****ing stupid.

My insurance company won't pay for any drugs that I DON'T order over the internet. I have little choice-I can't afford the non-health plan costs of my meds.

 

I think that Tex is referring to those who are ordering from a source that isn't reputable. Mail-order pharmacies have existed for quite a while, and there's a major difference between that and buying something off the street. You wouldn't believe the number of people who are taking allergy pills or blood thinners thinking they're taking Oxycontin or Viagra because they bought them illegally.

[monkeygirl]

 

 

Anybody that orders drugs over the Internet is ****ing stupid.

My insurance company won't pay for any drugs that I DON'T order over the internet. I have little choice-I can't afford the non-health plan costs of my meds.

 

I think that Tex is referring to those who are ordering from a source that isn't reputable. Mail-order pharmacies have existed for quite a while, and there's a major difference between that and buying something off the street. You wouldn't believe the number of people who are taking allergy pills or blood thinners thinking they're taking Oxycontin or Viagra because they bought them illegally.

 

I don't have a mail-order pharmacy-my pharmacy only exists online. the drugs come from the manufacturers. Are you saying something you buy off the street is safer than buying from a mail order pharmacy or an online pharmacy like mine?

 

The woman in this story thought she was buying legally. Did anyone else read the article Pong linked us to? I'm now even more confused.

[Guest]

I don't have a mail-order pharmacy-my pharmacy only exists online. the drugs come from the manufacturers. Are you saying something you buy off the street is safer than buying from a mail order pharmacy or an online pharmacy like mine?

 

The woman in this story thought she was buying legally. Did anyone else read the article Pong linked us to? I'm now even more confused.

 

It's effectively the same thing, as far as the pharmacy world is considered. The terminology is typically retail/hospital/mail order.

 

I did read the article, the woman stated she didn't know it was illegal, which is different from saying "I thought I was ordering from a pharmacy." And that actually makes it WORSE, in my opinion. She decided to buy something off the internet and give it to a minor when she had no clue what she was doing. She didn't know about the drug, didn't know if it was an over-the-counter medication or prescription and yet she GAVE IT TO A MINOR.

 

And, no, I'm saying that something that comes from a pharmacy is safer. Stuff you buy off the street or from some dude on the Internet is NOT safe.

[Cerina]

This is true. If she tried to order something like painkillers or antibiotics from some random site on the internet to give to her kid, would we be having this same conversation?