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Going To Therapy Next Week: (Or, how D-Ray and his wife almost offed themselves.)


D-Ray Kenobi
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So this is tough and a little embarrassing to write out, but I've known many of you guys for around fifteen years now so I think I should spill a little.

I mentioned this briefly elsewhere on here a few weeks ago, but my wife and I are going to couples therapy this coming Monday. Not the marriage counseling type, we're totally cool together and couldn't be happier in our marriage. It's that the two of us are going through a lot of crap individually that just happens to be the same. Not anything too out of the ordinary, but I think both of us recently hit a huge wall of "what the heck are we doing with our lives" after we turned 30.

We're not exactly the sorts that are satisfied or fulfilled by a 40 hour a week suburban life, but being stuck in that rut for a long time now has finally taken it's toll. That combined with tons of stress and moronity from all aspects of life just kind of hit a head lately. Feeling like we're doing the same thing day in, day out, just to be running in place is a sucky feeling. We recently realized it was time to get professional help after the two of us had a fairly serious conversation about a suicide pact a few weeks ago. I won't get into the scary nitty gritty, but we've hit a few extremely low points where we came extremely dangerously close.

I've kind of "come out" to friends about it recently, and I came up with a few metaphors to kind of explain how it feels.

We've been married eight years, have owned a house and have held down full time jobs for seven. After going through college and doing everything we were supposed to do, life is now kind of like the end of a video game. You've completed all the quests, gotten all of the achievements, now you're just kind of wandering around Skyrim with nothing left to do.

The other is that we're both kind of starving for life and nothing satisfies us. We've been blessed and lucky enough to travel the world, have amazing friends, not have to worry about finances, but now nothing is good enough. It's like you're starving, and the only thing available to you is a few grains of rice. Sure, people tell you that you can come up with ways to cope with your situation, but lying to yourself and telling you that a few grains of rice are good enough isn't going to keep you from starving to death. The both of us currently working two soul-sucking jobs that suck 50+ hours a week from us and leave us virtually no time or energy for anything else kind of keeps us starving too.

I once had an amazing job as a top official at a university where I was doing awesome things and making a huge difference for people daily, but because of political issues that were just causing me more stress than was necessary, I had to walk away from it for health reasons. I've held down a few more quieter jobs since then, but I'm just bored to tears with them because nothing else compares. The same goes for my wife. She had a few good years at her job where she was going all across North America as an ambassador and representative of NASA. But workplace politics killed that for her too. Now she's trying hard and struggling to start her own business and get out of a glorified Space Camp call center.

I realize that perhaps being sick and tired and borderline suicidal because of a run of the mill middle-class life is perhaps the pinnacle of a First World Problem, which is why I've felt embarrassed and ashamed to come out to people about it. But the truth is that my wife and I have run out of ways to cope with it. We tried running off to Europe for a few weeks, went a little wilder than we should have at music festivals like Bonnaroo, started a business, spent the summer with the most amazing friends we could ask for, all the stuff that should fill us full of life and happiness. It does for a temporary time, but like the quote from Blade Runner, all that stuff becomes lost like tears in the rain as soon as it's over. As soon as it's back to our boring and soulless middle class existence, we're immediately back at rock bottom. I worry too that we're becoming somewhat self-destructive, as we've been killing the booze way more than we have at any other point, amongst other self-implosional vices.

Anyways, there's two reasons for all of this. Part of my therapy homework is to both confide in friends and not be so closed about my situation, so I'm hoping to kill two birds with sharing this with you all. I'm healthily skeptical as to whether or not our weekly therapy appointments will do us any good, but I'm at a loss for other options.

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I think you two are making the right decision. Not to take away from what you're going through, but sort of sounds like a really bad quarter-life crisis that hit a little late. Mine culminated in me picking up and moving across the country. Fortunately, it worked out, although it was the scariest chance I'd ever taken at the time. I hope you can find happiness again.

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I wish I had something positive to tell you about how existence is intrinsically meaningful, but I don't. I suppose as an existentialist would say, you have to create your own meaning. And it seems like you are having trouble doing that of late. I can certainly relate, and I have been on-and-off suicidal since I was 8 years old. My own problems boil down to what I refer to as the existential dilemma, and some of your angst sounds similar to mine.

 

Having walked in these shoes for many a years, I can give a little well-meaning advice. For one, therapy can be beneficial. But you need a good therapist. I don't think any therapist is bad by intent, but some of their methods just may not prove appropriate for what you need. Some may want to talk about the past and your feelings, etc. That might prove very helpful. Or not. Personally, I think there is a lot of merit to cognitive behavioral therapy, as it sort of cuts through the shit and looks at cognitive distortions. A good therapist should help you do this. Not knowing what you want out of the deal, there may be financial benefit to going to "couples counseling" such that you aren't paying two different counselors to tackle one problem. However, there is also benefit to your wife and you having separate therapists. There might be underlying issues that you are afraid to bring up with your wife present (or vice versa). Also you get the benefit of two perspectives-- maybe your therapist tells you something really helpful that you can share with your wife this week, and maybe your wife does the same for you next week.

 

Also consider the possibility of depression. I'm not a doctor and won't belabor you with a bunch of symptoms-- you can google them. But suicidal thoughts are a very good indicator of possible depression. Therapy and meds are said to be the best treatment, when used in concert together. And you don't have to stay on meds the rest of your life. They might help give you a pick me up in perspective that you're not so apathetic and can begin to enjoy things in life again. I personally struggle a great deal with apathy and anehdonia.

 

Alternative stuff-- exercise is said to be very good. Personally I am very lazy and don't bother, but studies indicate that regular exercise can be as good as an anti-depressant. Regular sleep and good diet. Etc. You get the drift.

 

Good luck and hopefully things turn up sooner than later for you.

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What Destiny said. It seems like you're trying to mix things up with going on vacation and starting a business. Hopefully you can focus on stuff outside of work, or just reevaluate what you want to do in life? I'm still trying to sell a book, it's going to take a long time (if ever), I have to finish the damn thing before I can even try to pitch it, but just having that goal is good for me. And it never ends, because once you sell one then you have to sell another. The point is that setting goals or just having things to look forward to always helps me when I'm feeling overrun with ennui. Maybe the same will work for you guys?

 

I hope therapy does help for you and your wife. Good on you two for going.

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I wish I had something positive to tell you about how existence is intrinsically meaningful, but I don't. I suppose as an existentialist would say, you have to create your own meaning.

 

Also consider the possibility of depression. I'm not a doctor and won't belabor you with a bunch of symptoms-- you can google them. But suicidal thoughts are a very good indicator of possible depression. Therapy and meds are said to be the best treatment, when used in concert together. And you don't have to stay on meds the rest of your life. They might help give you a pick me up in perspective that you're not so apathetic and can begin to enjoy things in life again. I personally struggle a great deal with apathy and anehdonia.

Funny that you mention that, I've been struggling with the concept of singular existence in comparison to the scope of everything. I feel like anything and everything is absurdly pointless, given that we're nothing but insignificant specks in the universe. That, and I feel like nothing I say, do, accomplish, none of it matters. In just a few decades everything I know, everyone I know, everything I did, all of it will have been forgotten and will mean nothing. So there seems logically be little point in any mundane day to day thing at all.

 

And I certainly know that it's some type of depression. I don't necessarily struggle with anxiety or assuming the worst, but instead struggle with self-worth and apathy. I've tried so many things, writing books, shooting a short film, starting a business, managing a band, so many things. But nothing has really worked and taken off, and in correlation with my struggles with the point of a singular existence, everything just feels so pointless and mundane.

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What Destiny said. It seems like you're trying to mix things up with going on vacation and starting a business. Hopefully you can focus on stuff outside of work, or just reevaluate what you want to do in life?

I think I've been putting this off forever by continually trying those new things. We've done exotic vacations, started businesses, wrote books, managed a band, started a local publication, you name it, I've probably done it. And it's not that I'm all over the place and not focusing on any one thing, I'm trying one after another. Any given one of these things would be something I'd love to set a goal of in life, but you kind of start losing the will to try anything when all of your attempts in the past ended in failure. Whether it be something personal or professional.

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This is intense! I feel bad now for telling you that it was really hard to break into my field... I mean, I didn't want to lie, but I hope I wasn't dream-crushing!

 

I'm glad you guys are getting help.

 

Oddly, from the outside, you guys always seem to be having fun and doing new things-- I took this to be a lifestyle, not a fight against depression. I think that even if it doesn't feel like it, doing the things you guys do has been the right thing. Just because they haven't led to something else doesn't mean they won't.

 

I hope the therapy is less about accepting your lives may not be what you want them to be, and more about recognizing the somewhat indomitable spirit you seem to have (on social media anyway :) ). Besides, my therapist always said fake it till you make it-- so I think you guys should keep exploring life, you're good at it.

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Funny that you mention that, I've been struggling with the concept of singular existence in comparison to the scope of everything. I feel like anything and everything is absurdly pointless, given that we're nothing but insignificant specks in the universe. That, and I feel like nothing I say, do, accomplish, none of it matters. In just a few decades everything I know, everyone I know, everything I did, all of it will have been forgotten and will mean nothing. So there seems logically be little point in any mundane day to day thing at all.

 

And I certainly know that it's some type of depression. I don't necessarily struggle with anxiety or assuming the worst, but instead struggle with self-worth and apathy. I've tried so many things, writing books, shooting a short film, starting a business, managing a band, so many things. But nothing has really worked and taken off, and in correlation with my struggles with the point of a singular existence, everything just feels so pointless and mundane.

Sounds like you're trying too hard to live too large too soon -- to think big, act big, work big, be big, change the world, win all the things, whatever, and to do it all now now now now now. If life in the fast lane at an early age (compared to ours, anyway) wasn't enough to satisfy you, then I can see how shifting gears downward to merge into the 9-to-5 rat race has been thoroughly suffocating.

 

I'm a little saddened that you seem to reject the mundane as a losing proposition by definition. Today's trivia: that's everyday existence for over half the planet. But life offers infinite ranks to achieve between Hero of the Galaxy and Dregs from the Gutter.

 

Little guys like me may not mean everything, but that doesn't mean we're meaningless.

 

I don't really have a full essay in my head to go with this, but offhand I'd say y'all could use some extended time-off from planning Next Big Things. Maybe downsize your expectations of Life on Earth from macro to micro. Challenge yourselves to find joy in the quotidian. Look more closely around you for humbler opportunities to do something for others, even if it's only a handful of shoddy-looking neighbors instead of a teeming crowd of ticket holders.

 

No, it's not easy. It takes a lot of thinking and rethinking. Therapy's not a bad start.

 

But parts of what you wrote remind me uncomfortably of the guys from Sterling Pryce Draper Cooper. You're too smart and too young to be following that dead-end path.

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This is intense! I feel bad now for telling you that it was really hard to break into my field... I mean, I didn't want to lie, but I hope I wasn't dream-crushing!

 

I'm glad you guys are getting help.

 

Oddly, from the outside, you guys always seem to be having fun and doing new things-- I took this to be a lifestyle, not a fight against depression. I think that even if it doesn't feel like it, doing the things you guys do has been the right thing. Just because they haven't led to something else doesn't mean they won't.

 

I hope the therapy is less about accepting your lives may not be what you want them to be, and more about recognizing the somewhat indomitable spirit you seem to have (on social media anyway :) ). Besides, my therapist always said fake it till you make it-- so I think you guys should keep exploring life, you're good at it.

Oh no, seriously, don't worry about that. I know from experience to not jump into things I'm not ready for, or for things that have a hill too steep for me to climb. I'd much rather know before then, so that was a big help. I'm not going to lie, I still am in love with the idea of being a staff writer on a show like Mad Men or Breaking Bad, but I'm also in love with the idea of writing a popular iPhone app, writing a best-selling book, or managing a successful band. Doesn't really mean any of them are going to happen though.

 

Yeah, you're right that we do try hard with that sort of thing. I don't think I'm purposefully or necessarily trying to keep up the appearance of keeping it together with that sort of thing, it's just the stuff that me and my wife continually do just to keep what pieces of sanity we have left. My wife kind of has to keep up appearances a bit because her image is a big part of her business, but she's a bit introverted and wouldn't likely be like that otherwise.

 

Seriously though, thanks, this is some of the most assuring stuff I've read or heard while reaching out and doing some reading up on all this.

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Sounds like you're trying too hard to live too large too soon -- to think big, act big, work big, be big, change the world, win all the things, whatever, and to do it all now now now now now. If life in the fast lane at an early age (compared to ours, anyway) wasn't enough to satisfy you, then I can see how shifting gears downward to merge into the 9-to-5 rat race has been thoroughly suffocating.

 

I'm a little saddened that you seem to reject the mundane as a losing proposition by definition. Today's trivia: that's everyday existence for over half the planet. But life offers infinite ranks to achieve between Hero of the Galaxy and Dregs from the Gutter.

 

Little guys like me may not mean everything, but that doesn't mean we're meaningless.

 

I don't really have a full essay in my head to go with this, but offhand I'd say y'all could use some extended time-off from planning Next Big Things. Maybe downsize your expectations of Life on Earth from macro to micro. Challenge yourselves to find joy in the quotidian. Look more closely around you for humbler opportunities to do something for others, even if it's only a handful of shoddy-looking neighbors instead of a teeming crowd of ticket holders.

 

No, it's not easy. It takes a lot of thinking and rethinking. Therapy's not a bad start.

 

But parts of what you wrote remind me uncomfortably of the guys from Sterling Pryce Draper Cooper. You're too smart and too young to be following that dead-end path.

 

I totally see what you're getting at, but for better or worse, I've always been like that. I can't stand not over-achieving or being successful at whatever I set my mind to. It's not for appearances sake or some sort of ego thing in the context of how I'm seen, I've just always had high expectations of myself. If I'm not hitting my own expectations, I can't stop from telling myself that I'm not good enough, that I'm a failure. It's a blessing and a curse at the same time because I'm always striving for more, but at the same time it keeps me putting myself down because I haven't gotten to that point yet.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say that the mundane is "losing," it's just personally not a proposition that I'm not immediately interested in. I know plenty of loyal, big hearted people who are okay with the mundane who are awesome and are content, but that's just not me. If I really did have to life a cookie-cutter and societally scripted life, I really would kill myself (figuratively). Even if I'm not actively working or progressing on that Next Big Thing, I still have to have it on the horizon, if only to have something to look forward to and work towards. I know expectations and contentness varies for everyone, and that's great. But I personally can't let myself sit still.

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I get it. Trust me, I do. I was/ am in therapy because of this. The idea of a quiet life makes me want to put a bullet through my brain.

 

I finish one masters--hey, get another. Okay, I finished that--I guess I better get my doctorate (I am in the U of Co library now working on the beginnings of my dissertation as I type this). I am the same way at work. I am always looking and preparing for my next promotion. I work stupid hours to get ahead. I have big aspirations and high expectations for myself.

 

For years, I tried to be someone I wasn't...even someone I WANTED to be because I didn't like who I was. This cost me in many ways and I have many regrets. However, I have learned that in therapy that who I am okay. It is who I am. I am working on not changing who I am, but accepting who I am and not pretending to be someone I am not.

 

Beyond the accept who you are and blah blah blah advice, I would say (based on the info you provided) your goals do not have any external accountability and are fairly loosey-goosey in structure and nature. Pick a goal (for example, getting a doctorate) in which you have several levels of both internal and external accountability. Although this does not stop you from seeking out "what's next", they put your drive to good use by benefiting society which makes you feel good. In other words, accept who you are and look at this not as a problem, but rather as a solution. A solution for what...only you can figure that out. Oh, and enjoy the ride.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey Anne, thanks so much.

Yeah, my main concern honestly for the past seven or eight years has been helping college students and others of that age out in the beginnings of their career. If I had it to do over again, I'd have made it my career from the beginning. But certain things that I both enjoyed and became good at morphed into that. I deeply regret having to leave that position two years ago. It's on my mind a bit now because I was going through old emails just a bit ago and got a reminder of how I didn't really have a choice though, the situation that I had to walk way from at the time was just downright nasty and unhealthy. I have stayed involved in the meantime though, I'm on the Board of Directors for the Alumni Association and have continued to volunteer for the university fairly often.

I realized when I was struggling with all of this that I needed to get back to that as my full time job to be truly happy, so I had an interview this past Thursday as the Development Coordinator for Science and Liberal Arts for the university that I used to attend and work at. The political situation has drastically changed since I left, so I'm ready to be back. Fingers crossed, I should be back within a month or so if I get the gig. Without getting too spiritual, I'm certain that doing this job or another similar enough to it is where I am meant to be, so I will just keep knocking on that door until it opens for me at the right time.

As a general update on my wife and myself, we've had a few therapy sessions in the past few weeks. My wife has been prescribed two different medications and seems to be on the upswing. I'm a bit skeptical of medication for this type of thing in general, but it seems to be doing well so far, I just am trying to keep track of anything truly out of the ordinary. I've had a few breakdowns / panic attacks in the past week, but I know it's only pertaining to the uncertainty of getting this university job. I feel a bit clearer now, mainly due to the support of some awesome friends. Things are looking up for the time being.

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I got nothing. I'm proud of you for talking about it and for being smart enough to go to therapy, but this is pretty removed from my stuggles-mostly.

 

Part of my anxiety issues is similar to what you describe, though; the "well, NOW what?" thing and it's the biggest reason I'm glad I'm not independently wealthy. I NEED meaningful work to structure my days.

 

It sounds cliche, but have you tried devoting time to charity? Sometimes, directly helping others one-on-one can have a profound impact on a person's outlook. There are 2 people in my life who have traded corporate ladder jobs for working with the indigent. They're each so busy they can't see straight, balanced and extremely happy now. The best part is you can try this out with no long-term commitments or major life changes.

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medication certainly won't fix the problem, but it will keep you level enough to go about fixing it yourself. I think as long as you see it as an enabler in that sort of way, and don't rely on it, then it can work wonders in this situation.

 

I basically thought what JC said as I was reading everything. Helping others should hopefully get a bit more meaning into your everyday. You guys have had a very good experience of life up until this point. Maybe by bringing these sort of experiences to others you might get an insight into what these experiences truly do mean when see through another persons eyes? Especially one who hasn't been able to do that kind of thing before.

 

Charity work is good for the soul, or so they say. Even if you do it for a slightly selfish kind of reason, what you are giving back far outweighs that.

 

I hope you get that job back, but remember before that job you had no idea how good you would feel doing it. I don't think that kind of thing happens in just one job, there will be plenty of others out there to make you feel like you're where you should be. You just have to be lucky enough to find them!

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You're not suicidal or depressed Ray, you're just sad. You bet on the wrong pony and here you are. My guess is that you're still young enough to change things. Lotta folks on NN are sad sacks who are already fucked for life.

 

If you really think this girl is for you then keep her. But think long and hard about it. My suspicion Is that you both enable and encourage each other's misery and consequently should at least consider the possibility of parting ways.

 

Don't worry about other people judging you. Also, and this is VERY important, don't chase a pipe dream. You will not write a screenplay that will change the world and make you famousrichfullfiled. Make the most of your practical skills.

 

Life is worth living, my friend. I know it's hard to find your way through the shit of life but if you take a hard look at yourself and make the right decisions I think you can vastly improve your current situation.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

D-Ray, I know you have strong opinions and beliefs about certain issues. Have you considered investing time in a charity or social issue that you feel passionate about? Sometimes, when we help others, our own level of contentment is affected.

I second this.

 

Also, D-Ray, seriously, life is just beginning at 30. Don't worry about what others think (or what you think they think), and don't shackle yourself with what you are "supposed" to do. It sounds to me like you and your wife are simply trying to find something to be passionate about. I don't know your day to day life, but I think when couples find a hobby or activity they can both be passionate about, and do not just together, but with a group of friends, it gives them something to look forward to. This is why I like JC's idea, because you can do some good for others, and may do you some good, too. Also, maybe doing some sort of activity (I don't know, learn to play a musical instrument together, mountain biking, astronomy, just as a few ideas), where you and your wife can do it together along with a group of people will help.

 

I think therapy definitely is a step in the right direction, but I also would like to say that you may have to see multiple ones, because sometimes, indeed I would say most times, you don't get one that is the right fit for you, right off the bat. So if the first one doesn't work out, don't drop therapy, just go onto another therapist.

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