ShadowDog Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The point is just more build up for whatever Theon and Sansa end up doing when they've finally had enough. Martin and the showrunners are big on lots of build up. This isn't a new thing that just happened this season.I see your point. And that being the case some of that prior buildup was wasteful those times to. Its just this time its wasteful AND offensive. Don't get me wrong. I'm not upset, I just understand the POV of those who are bothered. To dimiss this as idiots or whatever is simplistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Yeah, I wouldn't call them idiots either. I think they're being overly sensitive and in at least some cases misdirecting their frustration, but not idiots. People can react to things however they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 America man. The land of the free. Champions of freedom of speech and the bill of rights. Except on nightly where you can be abused and ridiculed for having an opinion. Hypocritical much??I.... I don't think that's what happened at all. I don't think Shadowdog was addressing you at all, rather the general situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Yeah. I literally wasn't wasn't paying attention to who I was answering. It was just a jumping off point to rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 If you don't know someone's personal journey and what's happened to them ... and you don't ... you shouldn't be so quick to judge their reaction. Their point is: what did we learn in that scene? We already knew Ramsey was an irredeemable douche. We already knew Reek was broken. We already knew Sansa was a survivor who can overcome trauma. So what was the point? Rape as entertainment? I see their point. I'm not boycotting the show but as a writer I get what they're saying. Where I think they go to far is calling for others to boycott the show. You don't wanna watch it anymore? Cool. You shouldn't be criticized for that (though people have). You're trying to talk others into not watching it? That's when you start looking like an attention hound.The point is that Sansa has never had something that horrible happen to HER. She's had awful things happen to those she loves, but not her. Also it's one thing to show Ramsey doing awful things to characters we don't really know or like, but another for him to do it to Sansa. It ups his awfulness level. Lastly Theon is eventually going to turn on Ramsey I'd think. Watching that scene I almost thought he was going to do it right then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Sansa was beaten in public in front of the whole court. Is that rape? No. But its pretty horrible. Did we really need to see more, worse, happen to this character? We already know she can rise above trauma because she did it last time. Look, I get it. GRR Martin honks are never gonna understand this but the rest of us don't want to see the bad guys always win and the good guys always lose. We got real life for that. Go into work today and see douchebags get away with it. Entertainment is supposed to be escapism. The bad guy gets what's coming to him and it doesn't take 3 seasons to happen. GRR Martin honks love the much slower pace of this series and that's great. I actually get the appeal if it. But I prefer a lighter touch. If 10 lashes of the whip get the point across, do you really need 50 lashes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevil Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It is Shock TV there's no denying that. But the TV show actually softens the blows of the shocks. Sansa is much younger and was stripped naked and beaten at court;and Danaerys was 12 on her wedding night with Kal Drogo. I'm not in any way trying to diminish what was shown or lessen the impact but it could have been a different show entirely. Reading what someone wrote about poor Jeyne Poole made me sick!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Now this season is gettin' good! There's characters I'm glad are dead and deserved it, but, for example, Joffrey's death where the death is terrible and tragic. But Ramsey. I wish he had Beric Dondarrion's power, so he could be killed again and again in every imaginative and brutalizing way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevil Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 He's like a grown up Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I really don't get the outrage. Who didn't know this would happen the moment we found out Sansa had to marry Ramsey? And I still don't think Jamie raped Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue 3 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 But Ramsey. I wish he had Beric Dondarrion's power, so he could be killed again and again in every imaginative and brutalizing way.Ha ha! I like your style! He is utter scum and has been since he first appeared. He needs to die in a real nasty way!I'm still only nearing the end of the 3rd book, so lots more on his storyline to go, but certainly sounds even worse that what we have seen on the show. Enjoyed Tyrion talking his way out of losing his favourite toy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Yeah Dorne has utterly blown so far this season which has been the biggest disappointment. The Sand Snakes have seen absolutely zero development. Ellaria is continuing Oberyn's crusade for justice by acting.... exactly the opposite of how Oberyn wanted to act. They aren't using Jaime's travels to turn him against Cersei. The sand snakes suck. That fight scene was the single worst one we've seen in Game of Thrones so far. Have I mentioned how much the sand snakes suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Legend Killa Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I didn't enjoy the whole end scene but it (or something similar) did have to happen at some point. We all know that Ramsey is a dick but Sansa doesn't. They juxtaposed how Tyrion treated her after getting married with how Ramsey treated her. I liked the attention Arya and Tyrion got in this episode, Cersei and Margaery less so. Cersei needs to get some comeuppance and fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 A good friend told me he "is done" with GoT TV version after the last episode."It's a good story, I just don't want to see it anymore. Frank Herbert didn't need to murder and rape everybody to be epic." He's been on the way out since the Red Wedding, so it's not a huge surprise. While people like me love the books and TV series, his reaction makes me wonder how many other casual fans there are out there who are on the verge of leaving -- and who will leave next time a major character suffers something awful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Wouldn't surprise me if it kept happening, really. We're past the point in the books where people started to complain, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 This continues to speak for itself Will be interesting to see if it takes yet another dip after this "unforgivable" episode. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/328dd04deec99ff36ebda764bd632ff5.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 r u being sarcastic lucas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen123 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 One thing that should probably be kept in mind about those ratings is that I don't think they take HBO Now into consideration since it appears to be only based on live and same day DVR viewing (based on the source on wikipedia). I have no idea what the subscription numbers look like for that, but I have to imagine that it accounts for at least part of the dip in the ratings. Throw in the fact that the first 4 episodes got leaked early and that could account for some more of the drop, too. That says nothing of the usual piracy of the show, either. I also wouldn't read too much into next week's numbers, either due to scheduling. Over the past two years, HBO hasn't aired a new episode over Memorial Day weekend, but I see that they are this year. If the ratings either jump up or down for this episode, this should be taken into some consideration, too, as many people may have viewing habits change as a result of the holiday weekend (I likely won't be watching it that night, or perhaps for a few days even, since I'll have company). Also, since this is such a heavily serialized show, we are also now at the point where it may be extremely difficult to bring in so many new viewers since they now would have 4 seasons to catch up on prior to season 5. That is a not inconsiderable feat, so it doesn't necessarily surprise me that ratings for this season are hovering right around where they were last year. Plus, the show also had its big boom in ratings following season 3 and the heavily buzzed Red Wedding. We had nothing anywhere near that last year, so an increase between seasons similar to the previous one was unlikely. This isn't to say that there aren't signs of legitimately declining viewership, but context for ratings (or any other type of data) should also be taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Ratings are pretty crap anyways right... I mean they only count the numbers that watch through legitimate legal channels and there is no way to measure enjoyment either. So... It's just bean counting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest El Chalupacabra Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 A good friend told me he "is done" with GoT TV version after the last episode. "It's a good story, I just don't want to see it anymore. Frank Herbert didn't need to murder and rape everybody to be epic." He's been on the way out since the Red Wedding, so it's not a huge surprise. While people like me love the books and TV series, his reaction makes me wonder how many other casual fans there are out there who are on the verge of leaving -- and who will leave next time a major character suffers something awful?Your friend probably feels the same about GOT as I do about Walking Dead, and frankly, how I am also starting to feel about GOT. Believe it or not, some people like to see stories where there are good guys and bad guys. Stories with purpose, beyond torture porn. When good guys constantly get their ass handed to them week after week, and the bad guys continually win and do what they want without consequence, it becomes weary, wretched, and melancholic. In short, some people watch shows like GOT, Walking Dead, etc, to escape the real world, but when you are 5+ seasons into a show where either good characters are killed off (the next in a more torturous way than the last), or you see villains getting away with murder, etc, or you see heroes literally becoming no different than villains, then it reminds us escapists of the real world a little too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I can't imagine demanding that sort of idealism from my entertainment. I watch GoT because it keeps me on my toes, precisely because I don't know what's going to happen. The possibility of someone I'm invested in (good or bad) getting brutally murdered is what keeps me coming back. The numbers in the ratings aren't important. It's the trend line. As I addressed earlier, it appears we've hit the high water mark (and it didn't last very long). Hitting a high water mark is significant. When ratings have been constantly rising for 4 years and then they peak and start declining, that's something to worry about. Ratings drive money. Money drives quality. The leaked episodes excuse doesn't hold water because we've seen two straight declines in viewership after the leaked episodes finished out. I'll give you Memorial Day though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 There are plenty, in fact the majority, of stories out there where the good guys are good guys and the bad guys are bad guys and the good guys win. I'm a huge fan of the MCU and it's partially because of that. I get that this is frustrating. But that's what makes it worth it. This isn't, hasn't ever been, never will be, and never pretended to be a good guys beat the bad guys type of story. If that doesn't work for you that's totally fine, but to get upset about 5 years in is kinda strange to me. I'm like Lucas--I like it because I can't predict what's going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 At least you get where people are coming from. Its the GOT honks who pretend we're speaking French that annoy me. Its just a matter of personal taste. Its not that complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevil Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Cast members are hinting episode 10 is going to break the internet. I'm a no spoiler kind of guy so I'm quite intrigued as to what is in store for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I also like the fact that there are no good guys in the show. As Jacob said it makes the show very unpredictable, which is something most shows can't say well into the fifth season. As for all of the rape backlash, this show has always been violent. One episode a guy gets castrated, and the next episode a girl gets eaten alive by wolves. I understand that people are sensitive to anything involving rape, but considering all the violent stuff we've seen so far I find it a bit weird to complain about it. It's GOT. Shit happens to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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