Jacen123 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Just to note, since ratings were brought up early on, here are the ratings for the season. The only real substantial dip for the season, ultimately, was the Memorial Day episode. Otherwise, it was at least comparable to last season's numbers, if not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I don't really agree that was the only dip. It was a season long dip from the premiere to episode 7, with a brief (albeit substantial) rebound at the end. Seeing it struggle to reach Season 4's numbers on an almost weekly basis isn't a good sign. My point has always been "comparable to last season's numbers if not better" is not what GoT has done in the past. Every season has significantly outpaced the last, until now. It will be interesting to see if those numbers represent a plateau or a high-water mark and a turning point once we get several episodes into Season 6. For now, the series trend line is still pointing up, which is a good sign (we're talking quality ratings now, not viewership). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Unrelated: Ramsay Bolton, the nicest guy in Westeros: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEQnwF4yoWI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen123 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Again, remember that HBO Now didn't exist until this season and these numbers don't take that service into account. Additionally, there is only so much of a market for a show like this, and it perhaps roughly reached that point last year. It is also useful regarding market saturation to compare the ratings to other shows aired at the same time. For this past week, for instance, the only shows that had more viewers on all of television were the NBA Finals and America's Got Talent, all of which should naturally have a broader appeal than Game of Thrones. It is unrealistic to expect the ratings to increase dramatically year after year through the entire run of the series. Besides comparing this to other shows airing at the same time, it is also useful to compare its series-long ratings to those of other shows. There is a reason that GoT's viewership pattern of increased viewership has been reported notably each year; it is not the norm, especially for heavily serialized shows. The closest comparable show I can think of is The Walking Dead. Here is a graph of its ratings, courtesy of Wikipedia: It, too, appears to have leveled off this season (which was also its 5th). Granted, its numbers are better than GoT's but AMC is also much more widely available than HBO. As such, based on taking simple ratios of people with access to AMC to its average viewership, both as reported on Wikipedia, the walking dead is watched by roughly 15% of people who have access to it. A similar look at GoT shows that roughly 22% of HBO subscribers watch it. Granted, this certainly a low level, and likely naive, analysis, but it is still going at a level past the most basic analysis of raw numbers and looking at them in a vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I guess I'm the only one who liked Dorne Doran is the one person sitting on a throne in recent memory that seems to actually deserve it, so I'm a fan of that (Tommen is nice but lacks the backbone to be king).Nah, I'm with you. I hope Tommen grows a backbone, as he seems to somehow have a good heart despite his parentage and environment. My only big Dorne issue was the Sandsnake fight, which was super awkward. It honestly had a classic Doctor Who vibe, and not in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Uncle Kevan seems as much the cold hard-ass as his brother so Tommen should be in good hands. (Should "hands" be capitalized?) Further evidence by not moving at all to help Circe despite her punishment coming directly from his son's confessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Tommen's going to die. It's in the prophecy. Apparently, everybody keeps stating that Jon Snow is definitely dead. Yes. But I'm not seeing where anybody is saying that he's not coming back. So if he died and Melissandre brings him back, they're not lying. Jon is dead. But is he coming back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Kit Harrington has said that he's not coming back, yeah. Pretty sure D/D have too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishdancer2 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Uncle Kevan seems as much the cold hard-ass as his brother so Tommen should be in good hands. (Should "hands" be capitalized?) Further evidence by not moving at all to help Circe despite her punishment coming directly from his son's confessions.I don't know. I agree he's a hardass, but in the Harrenhal war meetings with Tywin, he kind of seemed like an idiot. Every suggestion he had got shot down or outdone by Arya. He's definitely not as smart as his brother. I guess I'm the only one who liked Dorne Doran is the one person sitting on a throne in recent memory that seems to actually deserve it, so I'm a fan of that (Tommen is nice but lacks the backbone to be king).Nah, I'm with you. I hope Tommen grows a backbone, as he seems to somehow have a good heart despite his parentage and environment. My only big Dorne issue was the Sandsnake fight, which was super awkward. It honestly had a classic Doctor Who vibe, and not in a good way. Yeah, that fight was dreadful. The Sandsnakes are just irritating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Kevan is definitely less than Tywin, but most people are. He's a very capable leader, but he knew how much better Tywin was at literally everything so he had no problem stepping back. The show doesn't show it, but he was very effective as Hand/Regent (I forget which one he was) while Cersei was locked up.Kit Harrington has said that he's not coming back, yeah. Pretty sure D/D have too.He might not be coming back. For season 6, that is. Who knows about after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Regent... I think. Cause he had turned Hand down and was back at Casterly Rock. Hell I might be conflating show and book at this point. The Sand Snakes were just cringe-inducing all around. From the get go with Obara's awful monologue. To their awful plan to abduct Myrcella from... literally the most difficult place for them to abduct her. To Ellaria totally spitting on Oberyn's memory ("We do not hurt little girls in Dorne") to get revenge for Oberyn dying in a totally legal and 'self-inflicted' way. To totally forgetting the reason there is animosity between the Martells and Lannisters to begin with. To the worst line in the history of television ("bad *****"). To Ellaria killing Myrcella WHILE HER NEPHEW IS ON A BOAT WITH JAIME AND BRONN. I really ****ing hated Dorne, guys. Oh, one thing I did notice though was that Doran mentions to Ellaria that she is mother to "four nieces" who he loves very much. We've only met Tyene, Nymeria, and Obara so far (right?)... sets the scene for Sarella perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Regent... I think. Cause he had turned Hand down and was back at Casterly Rock. Hell I might be conflating show and book at this point.I don't remember his title, but he was in charge of lots of stuff and definitely effective. Varys assassinated Kevan essentially for not sucking, for undoing so many of Cersei's ****ups lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I was kind of bummed when Varys showed up in Meereen because that meant losing that Epilogue scene, at least temporarily. I did wonder if Littlefinger would take over that role though. I understand the limitations of the show, but I really wish we weren't losing the Aegon plotline. It looks like we're maybe probably getting Euron and Oldtown next season, but I imagine Aegon is gone for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen123 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I can't wait to see the guys at the Wall wearing this next season: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Regent... I think. Cause he had turned Hand down and was back at Casterly Rock. Hell I might be conflating show and book at this point.I don't remember his title, but he was in charge of lots of stuff and definitely effective. Varys assassinated Kevan essentially for not sucking, for undoing so many of Cersei's ****ups lol Does anybody here care about book spoilers? Show of hands? I haven't read the books but I never will so I have no objection if mofos wanna let lose book spoilers. That being the case, I was surprised to hear Varys would do something like that. I'm curous ... What IS his agenda? What does he actually want if he could wave a magic wand and make it happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Circe. Cersei. Dammit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Does anybody here care about book spoilers? Show of hands? I haven't read the books but I never will so I have no objection if mofos wanna let lose book spoilers. That being the case, I was surprised to hear Varys would do something like that. I'm curous ... What IS his agenda? What does he actually want if he could wave a magic wand and make it happen?Spoiler box it anyway, but the Wikia says Varys does this because of Kevan's effectiveness at running the kingdom rather than having discord run amuck and softening it up for Daenarys. And using a crossbow and Kevan's relation to Tyrion would implicate the dwarf in the assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 To the worst line in the history of television ("bad *****"). Fantastic rack though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishdancer2 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I care about book spoilers! The last time I opened one of those tags, I got spoiled on Jon dying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 That being the case, I was surprised to hear Varys would do something like that. I'm curous ... What IS his agenda? What does he actually want if he could wave a magic wand and make it happen? He wants to put Aegon Targaryen on the throne. And yeah I'll continue to put book spoilers in spoiler boxes, because book spoilers are show spoilers. Even if you consider the show caught up and surpassed the content actually in the books (debatable), there's still so much other extra information, clues, and foreshadowing that many future plot points (both potential and 'sure' things) are only privy to book readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Baratheon: The only living Baratheon, Tommen, isn't even a Baratheon. This family is essentially wiped from the earth.Gendry is still out there on a boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Fair enough about book spoilers. Why is it debatable if the book is caught up with the show? Does it depend on if certain things get discarded or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yeah, there's a whole plot regarding the Iron Islands that had appeared discarded (but based on some of the casting sheets for next season it could be picked up again). It at least seems like we'll see a composite character serving several of those roles. There's significantly more to Dorne (well, kind of. There might be. There should be). There's backstory that is important but hasn't popped up yet (I'm talking legit important things not the reason for the historical feud between the Boltons and the Manderlys, how the Targaryen's ended up in Westeros or ish like that). We've got somewhat of a leg up on the Oldtown plot - if wholesale changes aren't made and if Sam doesn't get diverted before then. A lot of (important) things are right where the books left them but there are a lot of accessory storylines that still have some course to run. Really, for me it comes down to the fact that ASOIAF fans are crazy. They've analyzed the books forward and backward and picked up on literally every possible clue and bit of foreshadowing. There are all sorts of theories, both "sure" things and "tinfoil." Think of all the "Is Snape good or bad?" "What are the horcruxes?" discussion with HP - only on steroids. There's also things that I feel like we can take a pretty good guess as to what certain characters storylines are going to be coming up (for me, Jaime and Davos are in this category). It's for those reason that I don't think the show has truly surpassed the usefullness of the books for people who read/watch both. I'm honestly not trying to lord it over anyone, that's just how I feel. Now, those feelings will substantially change if we don't get TWOW before S6 or if the show gets further off the rails - and it'll definitely happen by season 7 of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Wouldn't it be crazy to see scenes on the show before reading them in the next book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yeah that's going to really bother some people. I remain steadfast in my belief that Book 6 is going to come out before season 6 (and thus make this point moot for another year). And in order to harness the power of positive thinking, I'm going to continue operating under that assumption. On the off chance (lol) it doesn't, I won't be thrilled about it but I won't care enough to not watch. The real issue for me will come for season 7 which is supposed to be the final season. There's a 10000% chance the show has surpassed the books at that point. I really won't be happy about seeing it unfold on screen before the page. But, at this point Game of Thrones is pretty ubiquitous. Almost all my friends watch, and only a few of those are book readers so I can't avoid it. I check sites like io9 every day, articles posted to facebook come with spoilery headlines and pictures. It will literally be impossible to avoid. So it will come down to what sucks more? Having the book spoiled by the show, or having both spoiled by overhearing some conversation on the train or in the grocery line or whatever? That's why the more divergence there is between the two the happier I'll (ultimately) be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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