The Choc Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Overall I thought the finale was great and I thought the final 3 episodes of the season were as good as anything else on the show. Also I don't get SDs comment on Jon being liked so he was next up. Alot of unlikeable characters have died as well, Viserys was completely terrible, he died. Joffrey was awful, hes dead. Tywin was not exactly cuddly and well liked, he's gone. We saw the very unliked Meryn Trant die last night. The more I think about it the more I think one of the main, if the the main, theme of the whole series is powerful people being laid low. It doesn't matter if you are a good guy, a bad guy or somewhere in between, the powerful are being brought down here. If you look at the great houses of Westeros all have been hit fairly hard and some nearly obliterated: Starks: Fairly obvious.Arryns: John Arryn is dead, his wife is dead. Their son may not be long for the world.Tullys: Both Tully daughters are dead. They were on the losing side of the war. Not looking good.Baratheon: The only living Baratheon, Tommen, isn't even a Baratheon. This family is essentially wiped from the earth.Tyrell: Margaery and Loras both imprisonedLannister: Tywin dead, Joffrey dead, Myrcella dead. Tyrion is a fugitive. Jaime lost his hand. Cersei had to walk through the streets naked.Martells: Maybe in the best shape of all, but still not exactly in an unprecarious spot. Like I said, it doesn't matter if you are good or bad or in the middle. The powerful are being brought down. The Sparrow is the most obvious agent of this at this point. Something tells me the Maesters will be too as time goes on. But there are forces at work that are trying to end the milleniums long feudal power structure in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Good episode. knew the John thing was coming so no surprises there... though I'm of the belief (like you lot) that he wont stay dead for too long. But I was wondering, or hoping, that when he is resurrected will he be the same John or will he have seen some things and done some stuff? Will he come back with an angry vengeance and smack all the mutineers back in their place? Or will he skulk away with his tail between his legs, on the arm of Melisandre, with Ghost trailing behind? Or what... Funny how the show has got me rooting for Cersei now. I cant wait for her to unleash the newly ressurected Mountain on some zealots. Lets see some crushed sparrow skulls... Though I still wish Cersei a swift death.. that humiliation she didn't deserve. But if we know that woman... there's gonna be hell to pay now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 When Jon comes back he will be Azor AhaI reborn and he will have alot bigger fish to fry than some misguided members of the Night's Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Legend Killa Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Not convinced of stannis's death. At least not at the hands of brienne. Arya's attack was brutal, as was her punishment. I'm glad one of Sansa and theon grew some balls. Cersei's walk was done very well, made me feel sorry for her, until the mountain picks her up and walks her away. Jon - I don't think anybody really thinks he wi stay dead right? at least his consciousness won't. I'm hoping for s6 Anybody else get completely sold out by the flashback at the beginning. I got taken hook line and sinker. It did feel a bit.....annoying to be left on so many cliffhangers but I am glad they didn't go any further. We are nicely poised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I thought the use of Benjen was genius. And I don't know if it was intentional or not but the "Previously on..." segment leaked about 24 hours early so the hype train was going full speed. It wasn't until I started clock-watching that I figured the Benjen bit was a ruse in conjunction with "For the Watch." I thought that was nicely done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I just don't see the profit in the actor outright lying to the fans. Other shows play it coy because mystery sells and keeps people coming back. Lying turns off his rabid fans because they think he's gone forever and then they're mad again when they realize they were flat out lied to. Flat out lying to fans doesn't usually help a show or movie. Now bringing the character back as another actor is still on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 BTW I think the anger towards Olly is misdirected. Okay let's say Olly doesn't lure Jon out to the ambush or Jon sees through it ... his ass is still out! He's living with 20 some odd dudes who want him dead. He's got to sleep some time. That many people where he lives want him dead ... he's ****ing dead. The kid was incidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 He can't play coy because most people assume he will be back. So if he plays coy at all, everyone is just going to be like "oh see, he is coming back." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 That's it, I'm just going to root for Ramsay Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishdancer2 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 BTW I think the anger towards Olly is misdirected. Okay let's say Olly doesn't lure Jon out to the ambush or Jon sees through it ... his ass is still out! He's living with 20 some odd dudes who want him dead. He's got to sleep some time. That many people where he lives want him dead ... he's ****ing dead. The kid was incidental.Anybody else could have lured him to the ambush, or they could have killed him right there in his chambers. Olly would have been fine even if he hadn't taken part, but he made his choice and he's an ass for it (albeit a clearly conflicted one). BTW, in the books, doesn't it say that the brothers have tears running down their faces when they stab him? I didn't get a feeling of regret or turmoil from anyone but Olly. Regarding Sansa as "boring," I think people have far too many expectations of her. Many, if not most of GRRM's main characters are tragically flawed, and Sansa is no exception. At the start of this tale, Sansa wanted nothing more than to be a pampered little empty-headed royal babymaker. She got a taste of what she wanted and has been choking on it ever since. Contrast that with Arya, who rejected her role, and wanted to live a life of an adventurer -- she's experienced it and has had her share of foul tastes as well, though we give her more leeway because she has more strength (at least outwardly), and better fits our expectations of an anti-hero than her sister. Both are examples of characters that reinforce the idea of "be careful what you wish for..." though, and at this point, I don't need them to succeed or fail to be satisfied. I don't deny that Sansa is commendable for surviving thus far, and I find the "be careful what you wish for" aspect of her story interesting, but she's boring because she doesn't actually do anything. She just gets shipped from place to place getting beaten up by different people. I don't need her to succeed or fail to be satisfied, but I need her to do something. Last night might have been a step in the right direction. It's difficult to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 It mentions Bowen Marsh crying, I can't remember if the other Brothers are mentioned to be crying or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 He can't play coy because most people assume he will be back. So if he plays coy at all, everyone is just going to be like "oh see, he is coming back."The point is whether Jon is coming back or not its better for the show runners if fans assume he is coming back. Either way, that's better for business. A good parallel is Shaw from last season's Person of Interest. The show runners didn't lie and say she was totally dead and never coming back. They played it coy. Most shows do. Of course GoT isn't most shows. They blaze their own trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishdancer2 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Eh, I don't think it matters at this point. If people have stuck with the show through all the character deaths thus far, they're not going to jump ship just because they think there's no chance of Jon's return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 All of my complaints for this season begin and end in Dorne. What a complete waste of airtime and Bronn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Maybe that stuff will pay off next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 All of my complaints for this season begin and end in Dorne. What a complete waste of airtime and Bronn. he wants the bad pussy so worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue 3 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Ha ha! That was a great scene!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I thought the Dorne payoff was great. The scene with Jaime and Myrcella was heartbreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 40 seconds of dialogue can't undo an entire season's worth of wasted airtime. The Sand Snakes were beyond terrible, the fight coordination was the worst in series history. Doran was just... there. Ellaria's plans make little to no sense. The Dorne plot amounted to "shit we don't have much for Jaime to do this season but we need him out of King's Landing." Coming into this season Dorne had maybe the highest potential of any of the plotlines and it fell flat at virtually every point but it's final one. When you really dig into the book-Dorne plot and it's (potential) end-game purposes, this year's arc becomes even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I said all along that converting Books 4 and 5 into television would be a daunting task. Books 1-3 were easy to do, but this was always going to be very difficult. Making it into 2 seasons wouldn't have really worked because of how the Books are divided up. To make it into one season they had to take a scalpel to some storylines and a cleaver to others and completely write others out. Overall I think they did a good job on converting the books into television this season. We know that the Iron Men were completely written out of this season but seem to be in the next season. Don't completely judge any Dorne storylines until we see how it plays out going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'm aware of potential future uses of Dorne (and I expect them to pop up early and often in season 6), but you can't write something that makes sense (read: doesn't seem like a waste of time through an entire season) only in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 It wasn't a waste of time though. I'm not saying it was the strong point of the season. I'm not saying it wasn't the weakest part of the season even. But to call it a waste of time just is wrong. I don't really get what you are saying there about writing stuff that only makes sense in hindsight. That's a fairly normal thing where you read something and don't understand where it's going or what it means and then later on you think "oh now I see." Not that I think that's whats happened here. The storyline wasn't great but it did take us to a point where it would see that war between Dorne and the Lannisters is near unavoidable. The storyline is kinda given from Ellaria's standpoint. It starts with her wanting a war with the Lannisters and Doran not agreeing. She seemingly figures out a way to make it happen. I'll say they probably should have done more with Doran though. Either by giving at least a hint that he had some sort of long game plan for revenge or at least letting him espouse on why he doesn't want war. Ya know the basic "I've seen the horrors of war stuff." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishdancer2 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I guess I'm the only one who liked Dorne Doran is the one person sitting on a throne in recent memory that seems to actually deserve it, so I'm a fan of that (Tommen is nice but lacks the backbone to be king). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 To be fair he's a fetus. Maybe he'll be more forceful as he grows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen123 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Edit: See next post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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