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Is the truth out there?  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Does alien life exist?

    • yes
      13
    • no
      3
  2. 2. If you said yes, do you think said aliens are secretly visiting Earth

    • I said I didn't believe
      1
    • yes
      2
    • no
      13
  3. 3. If yes again, do you think they are abducting humans and cows for experimentation?

    • dude, there's no aliens
      1
    • yes
      3
    • no
      12
  4. 4. Yes again, does the government know about it?

    • WTF I SAID NO ALIENS
      2
    • Yes, and they have no power
      2
    • yes, and they are complicit with it
      0
    • no
      12
  5. 5. crazy lights in the sky

    • seen them, with holding judgment on what it was
      2
    • seen them, totally aliens
      0
    • seen them, it's the government
      2
    • never seen them
      12
  6. 6. If aliens are real, what do you think the end game is?

    • Eventually, it will be public knowledge, and they'll be friendly
      8
    • Eventually, it will be public knowledge, and we're screwed
      3
    • They just need help with our genes to rebuild their population
      0
    • God = aliens, we're an ant farm
      5
  7. 7. If aliens are not real, how do you explain lights in the sky?

    • IT'S THE GOVERNMENT
      4
    • natural phenomena that we simply don't understand yet
      11
    • magical faeries, not aliens
      1
  8. 8. If aliens are not real, how do you abductee evidence?

    • sleep paralysis fueled by a cultural knowing of what an alien abduction entails
      9
    • THE GOIVERNMENT
      0
    • some sort of existential/transcendent experience that human science cannot yet define
      7
  9. 9. Fire In The Sky

    • scariest movie ever
      4
    • I can't watch it it gives me nightmares
      0
    • LALALLALALALLA THERE'S NO SUCH MOVIE
      12


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Guest El Chalupacabra

aliens don't exist until proven they do as far as im concerned. that said, in a universe as vast as ours is, it is possible there is et life out there somewhere. whether it is sentient, is another matter. and whether its been to earth yet another. it matters not until proven though.

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I just wanna know what aliens find so interesting about our buttholes.

dear g_d im sorry but i just dnt wanna live in a world where krawlie cant sleep rape or aids ppl

Aliens have actually been following this thread. Based on what they've seen, they've decided NOT to have further contact with us.

I think it's less a question of whether or not extra terrestrial life exists than it is a question of how it would get here. The nearest stars still would take years to reach at the speed of light, so we'd have to presuppose not just alien life, but life with the civilization and technology to actually produce a craft able to make an interstellar voyage. I don't think this is out of the question, but pretty damned unlikely in a radius around our solar system wherein such a voyage at the speed of light would be feasible.

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Some people think that because of this aliens would have to be from somewhere in the solar system or underground... or even interdimensional OMG!

 

But yeah, the two most damning things working against the existence of aliens is the fact we all have cameras, and physics.

Edited by Driver
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I don't think it's damning that in our frame of science it would be not only improbable to get from system to system but also totally inefficient.

 

Saying this is a strike against a possible space faring alien culture is like someone from the past saying flight is impossible or even "recent past" saying landing on the moon is impossible.

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I can't answer the poll since I'm not sure of the answer to the first question and I don't really understand the fifth question. The poll won't let me just partially answer it. I get an error message. GOIVERNMENT!!!

 

Does alien life exist? Okay, two things. One, I'd need a really good working definition of the term "life" to answer this question. Two, the universe is a really big place that's been around for a long time and will be around for an even longer time most likely and therefore it can be kind of tough to say with definitive certainty what is and isn't existing in it.

 

The last time this topic came up at the Lyceum I'm pretty sure I mentioned the weird bright blue light in the sky I saw in the Catskills Mountains. I do not think it was an alien flying a spaceship but considering the fact that this happened on Passover there's every reason to believe it may have been the Prophet Elijah returning to the heavens on his spectral chariot after consuming the wine left out for him at our seder.

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Saying this is a strike against a possible space faring alien culture is like someone from the past saying flight is impossible or even "recent past" saying landing on the moon is impossible.

I wonder if there any people out there who believe we faked the moon landings AND that aliens have visited earth.

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I do think that many "UFO sightings" are government top-secret projects. That said, my mom's dad was a deputy sheriff who had to investigate some cattle mutilations back in the 60s. Messed up stuff. The whole family also all vividly remembers being chased by a UFO and trying to outrun it in the car. My uncle thinks they were kidnapped and subjected to alien experiments. He's also smoked a lot of pot and done just about every drug out there.

 

I think that there is definitely the "possibility" of other life out there. It is, after all, a big universe. However, I don't think it's in the solar system, and I have no idea how sentient it is. Plants and microbes are technically life. I do think that there's the possibility that life could have developed far differently than our own. I don't think that carbon-based, water and light-dependency is a necessity for life. It just is on this planet. There's so much we don't know about our own solar system.

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Supplemental:

 

Why could life exist elsewhere? Because it exists here.

That has got to be some of the worst logic I've ever heard.

 

So because something happens once, it has to happen twice?

 

How do you know that the probability of life emerging is not so infinitesimally small, so as to be almost 0, so it only happens once? How do you know?

 

Oh but wait, you have the answers- like some others who think life is "likely" in the universe, you have calculated the probability! Well, I'm glad we have a resident Einstein among us at Nightly. Please, do share how you calculated this. I would be fascinated to see your research.

 

Your own agenda is shading the answers of, well, at least me.

 

I never once said alien life does exist. Never once said I know anything about alien life.

 

Quite expressively the opposite in fact.

 

I did readily say I agree with the possibility of it existing. And yes because something does exist here that does mean there is a possibility it exists elsewhere. There is no fault in that logic. If you feel so positive that there is a fault in that logic [then you should] hold up a mirror because you are the resident Einstein of Nightly that you so despise.

 

My "agenda?"

 

THT, I don't have an agenda. I said at the beginning of this thread, I have no idea if aliens exist or not, if they are likely or not. What agenda do you think I'm pursuing?

 

I am, however, curious as to why you think the possibility of it exists. This is not good logic, THT. Did you actually consider what I was writing and why you made a logical fallacy? The existence of one thing happening does not automatically suggest it will happen a second time unless you have some scientific reason why the probability of it happening again is greater than 1. There are instances of things being entirely unique, or nearly so, in the universe. One example on our very own planet are snowflakes. Another is the number pi, which never settles into a recurring pattern, but continues in a new unique sequence for each number, even though we've calculated it out to 10 trillion digits. Even with life on our own planet, even identical twins have differences, though they may be minute.

 

So, once again, why do you think it's possible for life to exist elsewhere? What if the probability of life emerging on any given system is 1 / 3x10^23, or less than 1, and we just happen to be that lucky 1? Sure, it's a bit of a somber thought, but it's the only logical one until we make a new scientific discovery.

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I'm of the mindset that yeah they probably do exist somewhere, given the scale of the universe. I don't think we've had any contact with them.

Intelligent life or just life at all (i.e. microbes, etc.)?

 

If intelligent life, how do you know that? The universe is estimated to contain around 3×10^23 stars. What if the probability of advanced life emerging in any given star is less than 1 / 3x10^23?

 

Do you know what the probability is of life existing on any given star? Apparently you do, since in your words, aliens "probably" exist, which means you think the probability is greater than 50%. I'm curious how you established that- actually, why don't you just forward your study to SETI.. they're gonna be thrilled.

 

 

Is it fun picking nits like that? Or is it just force of habit at this point?

 

It's not really nit-picking, Lucas. You used the word "probably," Lucas. Unless you didn't mean to use that word, that word has a definition, typically that an occurrence is a "strong possibility," which most people take to mean 'more likely than not,' or greater than 51% or whatever. You're in law school, right? Probably is really another way of saying the preponderance of the evidence.

 

So, my question, is what evidence do you have? I mean, you didn't just say "possible," but "probably," which means you claim to have an idea of the probability of life existing somewhere. Now, to my knowledge, no scientist in the world has calculated that, so I'm wondering if you actually have a scientific reason for believing this or if your claim is just rooted in a whimsical fantasy. It's a fair question.

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What if the probability of life emerging on any given system is 1 / 3x10^23, or less than 1, and we just happen to be that lucky 1? Sure, it's a bit of a somber thought, but it's the only logical one until we make a new scientific discovery.

If we're the only ones here, then we have the Universe to ourselves, and we can do what anyone who has the house to themselves does!

 

Aliens - wish the poll had options for "no idea". The Drake equation is simply a tool to lay out what factors might play into the development of intelligent/civilized/technological life. We're only now getting any idea about the types and distribution of extrasolar planets out there. It's a rough start. Certainly there's no data to place other numbers into the equation. Do we even have all the parameters? Who knows?

 

As usual, I should point out if there were even just one other technological civilization in the Universe, the odds are not good that it would overlap with us in both time and space. It could be a billion lightyears away right now (too far to ever communicate with, much less visit), died out a billion years ago, or not to arise for a billion years yet - or all of those. Pick any random point in Earth's existence, and the odds are you'll pick one where the only living things were bacteria and algae. Not much to talk about with a bacterium, though there's no chance they'll ream your asshole or mutilate your cows.

 

There are definitely other planets out there - close to 1000 detected, several thousand more candidates to confirm yet, but if any of them are hospitable to any kind of life, it's most likely unicellular.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

I'll be honest because I am such a fan of Star Wars and Star Trek that I hoped there was alien life out there, waiting to visit. But now, not so much. Who knows, maybe there are closer to the center of the galaxy, hundreds of planets that have space faring, intelligent life. If that is the case, though, that means:

 

1. We are a back water planet to them, and we are pretty much animals to them

2. They are far more advanced than us, if they can get here

3. Who is to say they are friendly and and benign? They could just as easily be lizard people who want to eat us, or see us as a plague to be wiped out or conquered.

4. Or finally, let's say they are friendly, but the moment they visit they inadvertently bring some space plague and kill us all.

 

If that is all true, then why the hell are we so eager to meet them if there are aliens, anyway?

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I'm of the mindset that yeah they probably do exist somewhere, given the scale of the universe. I don't think we've had any contact with them.

Intelligent life or just life at all (i.e. microbes, etc.)?

 

If intelligent life, how do you know that? The universe is estimated to contain around 3×10^23 stars. What if the probability of advanced life emerging in any given star is less than 1 / 3x10^23?

 

Do you know what the probability is of life existing on any given star? Apparently you do, since in your words, aliens "probably" exist, which means you think the probability is greater than 50%. I'm curious how you established that- actually, why don't you just forward your study to SETI.. they're gonna be thrilled.

 

 

Is it fun picking nits like that? Or is it just force of habit at this point?

It's not really nit-picking, Lucas. You used the word "probably," Lucas. Unless you didn't mean to use that word, that word has a definition, typically that an occurrence is a "strong possibility," which most people take to mean 'more likely than not,' or greater than 51% or whatever. You're in law school, right? Probably is really another way of saying the preponderance of the evidence.

 

So, my question, is what evidence do you have? I mean, you didn't just say "possible," but "probably," which means you claim to have an idea of the probability of life existing somewhere. Now, to my knowledge, no scientist in the world has calculated that, so I'm wondering if you actually have a scientific reason for believing this or if your claim is just rooted in a whimsical fantasy. It's a fair question.

No, it's not a fair question. You're being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic. You knew exactly what I meant, I'm not going to engage you further with regards to that.

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Don't have time to read everyone's shit right now, will do later today.

 

I didn't do the poll because I had to answer all questions and my answers don't exist there.

 

I believe in alien life on other planets but can't even describe it-hence the ALIEN part. I don't think it's anything even remotely like anything we recognize. I don't think it has an agenda, I don't think it cares about our cows or anuses. I don't think they make crop circles and don't think alien life has anything to do with the lights in the sky that have been seen.

 

I think the abduction scenarios are something in our collective conscience-something akin to the sleep disorder symptom know as "Old Hag" syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

 

I think the lights are some sort of science phenomena that nobody's figured out yet.

 

I think our federal government is too big and inept to be at the center of anything like this. I've been to the DMV.

 

That said, the scariest dream I've ever had was about aliens. I was living in a 3rd floor walk-up studio and had an incredibly realistic dream that aliens moved into the unit across from mine. There were some minor differences-a vent in my front door-the doors of the units aligned rather than staggered. But when I woke, I woke very quickly and was in the EXACT same position as I was a millisecond before in the dream-lending to the creepy-realistic feel. The only differences-in the dream it was dark and loud. IRL, it was sunny and quiet.

I was creeped out for DAYS.

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I bet there are and they are probably great at parties.

You know who else is fun at parties I bet?

 

You used the word "probably," Lucas. Unless you didn't mean to use that word, that word has a definition, typically that an occurrence is a "strong possibility," which most people take to mean 'more likely than not,' or greater than 51% or whatever. You're in law school, right? Probably is really another way of saying the preponderance of the evidence.

 

So, my question, is what evidence do you have? I mean, you didn't just say "possible," but "probably," which means you claim to have an idea of the probability of life existing somewhere. Now, to my knowledge, no scientist in the world has calculated that, so I'm wondering if you actually have a scientific reason for believing this or if your claim is just rooted in a whimsical fantasy. It's a fair question.

 

Oh and...

 

I didn't do the poll because I had to answer all questions and my answers don't exist there.

Cause half the things you just said are in the poll. SHEESH.

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I'm of the mindset that yeah they probably do exist somewhere, given the scale of the universe. I don't think we've had any contact with them.

Intelligent life or just life at all (i.e. microbes, etc.)?

 

If intelligent life, how do you know that? The universe is estimated to contain around 3×10^23 stars. What if the probability of advanced life emerging in any given star is less than 1 / 3x10^23?

 

Do you know what the probability is of life existing on any given star? Apparently you do, since in your words, aliens "probably" exist, which means you think the probability is greater than 50%. I'm curious how you established that- actually, why don't you just forward your study to SETI.. they're gonna be thrilled.

 

 

Is it fun picking nits like that? Or is it just force of habit at this point?

It's not really nit-picking, Lucas. You used the word "probably," Lucas. Unless you didn't mean to use that word, that word has a definition, typically that an occurrence is a "strong possibility," which most people take to mean 'more likely than not,' or greater than 51% or whatever. You're in law school, right? Probably is really another way of saying the preponderance of the evidence.

 

So, my question, is what evidence do you have? I mean, you didn't just say "possible," but "probably," which means you claim to have an idea of the probability of life existing somewhere. Now, to my knowledge, no scientist in the world has calculated that, so I'm wondering if you actually have a scientific reason for believing this or if your claim is just rooted in a whimsical fantasy. It's a fair question.

No, it's not a fair question. You're being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic. You knew exactly what I meant, I'm not going to engage you further with regards to that.

 

I'm not being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic. I questioned you, because you made a claim about the probability of alien life, in fact, you said it with some confidence; and I suspected that you didn't have any scientific basis or good argument for your claim, so I challenged it.

 

I was gonna say that I was right, but now you're saying that "I knew exactly what you meant?" Um.. no, I don't. Are you saying this whole time you didn't mean what you wrote? I'm confused Lucas. I don't know what you mean. Was I supposed to deduce some hidden meaning? You said alien life "probably" existed, in fact, you said it twice. So I asked how you determined that. Am I to understand by "probably," you actually meant "improbably?" It's not my fault for assuming you write the words you intend to use. Now if all you want is a do-over here, ok fine. Request granted. So what did you actually mean to say?

 

Finally, I'm not sure why you're snapping at me and being elusive. I didn't call you names, I didn't say you were retarded, I didn't curse at you, none of that. I made an honest challenge, sure, but that's because this is a politics message board, I mean, if you just want a place where people post pictures of food and their cats, there are places for that.

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I believe in alien life on other planets but can't even describe it-hence the ALIEN part.

Hmm... well that's funny, MG, it seems just the other day when we were talking about religion, you said:

 

I don't just believe random ideas without a shred of proof! You're making my argument for me! Hell, the only reason I believe in electricity is because most times, when I turn a switch on, a light appears. It may not be definitive proof, but it's SOMETHING. I don't understand believing in something with zero evidence. I don't mean to be insulting, but what kind of idiot believes something with zero proof? Do you see what I mean?

 

Well, it seems to me that you got 3 choices here:

 

a) Give us the proof that aliens exist, because well, in your own words you don't believe ideas without a shred of proof, in fact, in your own words, "what kind of IDIOT" believes something without proof?

 

b) Admit that you are, in fact, by your own standards, an idiot.

 

c) Don't respond, run and hide, and hope I forget about this.

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I made an honest challenge, sure, but that's because this is a politics message board, I mean, if you just want a place where people post pictures of food and their cats, there are places for that.

 

Right. It's a message board. We're chatting. My response wasn't an article in a science journal, or even a comment below a journal article online. I didn't get on CNN and say "Alien life probably exists!" My comment was the equivalent of "Hell, the universe is a gigantic place, I think at some place and at some time in the history of the universe, there is or has probably been alien life somewhere. It certainly wouldn't surprise me. It's as likely as it isn't." So on and so forth.

 

You are the only person I know that would insist on parsing my initial comment any further than taking exactly what it said at first blush, and I deal with lawyers, law professors, and law students who just love to make themselves feel smarter than everyone else all day long.

 

 

I'm not being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic. I questioned you, because you made a claim about the probability of alien life, in fact, you said it with some confidence; and I suspected that you didn't have any scientific basis or good argument for your claim, so I challenged it.

You're a smart person, this is well known, so I refuse to believe you actually read my comment as an assertion or that it was something I said "with confidence."

 

But if you'd like to continue to be pedantic, and make no mistake that is what you are doing, and parse my use of the word "probably" in an off-hand comment it took me 30 seconds to think and type, then by all means feel free to continue to do so.

 

As a compromise, I'll start submitting my responses for peer review before posting them in the Lyceum so as to avoid future similar discussions.

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I believe in alien life on other planets but can't even describe it-hence the ALIEN part.

Hmm... well that's funny, MG, it seems just the other day when we were talking about religion, you said:

 

I don't just believe random ideas without a shred of proof! You're making my argument for me! Hell, the only reason I believe in electricity is because most times, when I turn a switch on, a light appears. It may not be definitive proof, but it's SOMETHING. I don't understand believing in something with zero evidence. I don't mean to be insulting, but what kind of idiot believes something with zero proof? Do you see what I mean?

 

Well, it seems to me that you got 3 choices here:

 

a) Give us the proof that aliens exist, because well, in your own words you don't believe ideas without a shred of proof, in fact, in your own words, "what kind of IDIOT" believes something without proof?

 

b) Admit that you are, in fact, by your own standards, an idiot.

 

c) Don't respond, run and hide, and hope I forget about this.

 

 

whatever. YOU choose one of the above. I have some stuff to voice. Get back to me when the 8 ball's gone.

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If there really is a reason aliens won't talk to us, it's probably because our most elaborate conspiracy theories surrounding their visitations involve helping ancient civilizations build pyramids, or leave strange designs in farmer's fields, or anonymously abduct and perform surgeries on people. If they have the technology to schlep across the cosmos to do any of these things, why not openly invade and extract our resources? At least make it worth their while somehow. If their goal is merely observation, surely so advanced a civilization could spy on us from a similar distance without the risk of detection.

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