ShadowDog Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 They have 2 rings. Feel sorry did Bills fans. The Giants and Eli are okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Don't worry, once they lose to Green Bay this weekend, Cowboy fans will milk the Detroit win as if they won 37 straight Super Bowls anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Before both of his Super Bowl wins, Coughlin was on the hot seat (at least in the media). I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls out another win before he's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Next year would be the mythical 4th year so its time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Only where constantly means making the postseason 6 times and missing it 6 times under Coughlin. You're right about the run being over though.Well he's only been coach 11 years, so something is off. Hes made it 5 times 05, 06, 07, 08, 11 and missed it 6 times 04, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14. Here is how I look at it. The Giants built a very successful team with Coughlin as coach and Accorsi and Reese as GM (Accorsi retired following 06). The team had a core that first and foremost included Eli Manning. But then also a couple linemen like Diehl, Snee, McKenzie. The backs Bradshaw and Jacobs. On defense you had Tuck and Osi, Corey Webster. Then you had Strahan in 07, kinda replaced by JPP in 11. You had a trio of WRs go from Plax, Toomer and Smith to Nicks, Cruz and Manningham. It was a very successful team. From 05-11 they made the playoffs 5 times, won the division 3 times and won 2 Super Bowls. Can't ask for more. Thing is that nearly all those guys are gone, other than Eli. The offensive line has 5 new players from the Super Bowl 46 team. You are right, that team or era or whatever you wanna call it, is over. And the Giants haven't been shy about it. They allowed Tuck and Osi to leave,, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Nicks and Manningham to leave. It's not like they are trying to hold on to past glories by keeping players around too long. So now they need to rebuild the team. Who should I trust to rebuild it? a co-ordinator and assistant GM with no experience doing it? Or a GM and coach who have done it together, twice? I'll go with the guys who have done it. Now does that mean they will succeed? Ofcourse not, there are no guarantees. But its not like some new guys are guaranteed to fix it either. What HC candidate out there now has half the resume of Coughlin? What GM has half the resume of Reese? Teams are too quick to get rid of coaches, a man can either coach or he can't. Look at when the Jags got rid of Tom. He had tremendous success early on in Jax. Then he hit a lul, so they got rid of him. They then went to Del Rio who actually wasnt that bad. Had a 12-4 year, an 11-5 year. Then had a bad year and a half so they get rid of him. Did Couglin forget how to coach? Did Del Rio? Ofcourse not, they shouldn't have fired either. Now they are in the worst stretch in their history, because they fired coaches too soon.Rather than say "hey, we know we have a good coach, just had a couple bad years as an organization." Same thing with the Bucs, they fired Gruden off back to back 9-7 years. Hows that worked? Same thing with Lovie Smith and the Bears, other than his first year he never won fewer than 7, he took them to a SB. They got rid of him off of 10-6 for crying out loud. Hows that worked? The next guy can't coach. When you have a good coach, you keep him. You don't get rid of him because "it's time to move on" or "that era is over". Thats a good way to have press conferences every few Januarys introducing your exciting new coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 You make some good points. I love continuity in coaching. I love that the Steelers have only had three coaches in my entire life. That's ****ing awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yeah, I mean it's kinda crazy. They've been very good at choosing their coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Great points about coaches getting fired too soon. When good coaches have bad years, it seems to be the product of bad personnel decisions and injuries. Also, sometimes the ball just doesn't bounce your way in one, two, three games and you have some unexpected losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Sometimes coaches can't coach and you need to pull the plug. The Bears were right to get rid of Trestman. But if you have one who can coach, getting rid of him for changes sake is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Spam Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Great points about coaches getting fired too soon. When good coaches have bad years, it seems to be the product of bad personnel decisions and injuries. Also, sometimes the ball just doesn't bounce your way in one, two, three games and you have some unexpected losses.or Jerry Jones. I argue that stupid owners can wreak holy havok on a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Darth Hunter Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Dan Snyder anyone? To piggyback on The Choc's points about coaches: "The head coach purge happens annually though it's obvious that coaching turmoil detracts from long-term success. In the past decade, the Raiders have offloaded six head coaches--which has only made their decade-long tailspin worse. Since 1978 the Browns, Colts and Raiders have combined for 33 instances of head-coach turnover, and also mainly struggled in that period. The team with the least coaching turnover since 1978 is the Steelers, two new head coaches. And hey, look, three Super Bowl rings during the period. But though it is known that sideline turmoil does not build winners, season-ticket marketing happens mainly during the winter. Firing the head coach as winter begins gives customers a reason to believe the next season won't be as bad..." You can read the whole article here. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/TMQWeekSeventeen141230/nfl-season-ends-coaching-purge-always-tuesday-morning-quarterback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Torch Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The only reason Coughlin has a job and Eli isn't regarded more like Archie is because the Patriots ****ing choked twice. Those rings, especially over a Boston team, are that important to the equation. Anyone that argues otherwise is either dishonest or a true blue fan of the Giants. The first win was an upset for the ages to cheer, the second win was against a team living off reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Yeah, I mean 2 men who accomplish the actual and final goal of every football team player and coach and who accomplish it twice. That's a pretty good reason. I mean seriously what would be a better reason? I think winning Super Bowls is probably the very best reason there is considering its the object of the sport. And yeah the 11 Pats were living off rep, I mean they were advance straight to the Super Bowl based on their reputation, right? They didn't win the AFC or anything, did they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Does that mean the Rams choked during the Pats first SB win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Torch Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You pick books out by their covers don't you, Choc? ;-) The Rams played against a game management O and against a D that was able to hit them in all the places they didn't want to be hit. It is a dynamic similar to the Pats/Giants of SB42. And yes when a team that should win is upset it can be and is fair to say they choked. BTW, the 2011 Patriots were an overachieving squad that by years end were walking dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I just want this weekend of football to be over. I'm going to have to stay off of twitter until like next Wednesday. People have turned the crazy up to 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashmere Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I am already in fantasy withdrawal. I just want this weekend of football to last longer so I can have more football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Just have your team win and you will have more football. Please. For all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You pick books out by their covers don't you, Choc? ;-) The Rams played against a game management O and against a D that was able to hit them in all the places they didn't want to be hit. It is a dynamic similar to the Pats/Giants of SB42. And yes when a team that should win is upset it can be and is fair to say they choked. BTW, the 2011 Patriots were an overachieving squad that by years end were walking dead.I don't get the first comment. You seem to be discounting Super Bowl Championships, which is the most important thing. You can couch it all you want about how the Pats "choked" the first time and were no good the 2nd time. Whatever makes ya sleep at night. The Giants won those games, thats what matters. They completed their objective twice. Would it be better to be the Bengals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Your point seems to be if they hadn't won 2 Super Bowls they wouldn't have jobs? I guess thats it? So basically if they were less successful they wouldn't have jobs? To some degree thats the case with every single coach and player in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Torch Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I did exactly the opposite of discount the importance of championships. I also sleep just fine and don't need to console myself over sports losses. My point was I thought obvious, without the rings the seasonal performaces would have otherwise gotten Coughlin booted and Eli shunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yeah, I mean obviously. Basically you are saying "if they weren't so successful they wouldn't have been so successful" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Torch Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 No. If Belichick and Brady had no rings, losing in the SB in each appearance, but otherwise the careers are the same... their seasonal performance would not justify losing their jobs. However it would be possible they'd be hot seated and even likelier that Belichick would have been replaced. Eli and Coughlin's seasonal performances, on whole, warrant changes to those positions. However their two rings shelter them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I almost came at this point earlier when Choc asked "Would it be better to be the Bengals?" Of course not, but would it be better to be the Colts (2011 didn't happen!) or Patriots? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I almost came at this point earlier when Choc asked "Would it be better to be the Bengals?" Of course not, but would it be better to be the Colts (2011 didn't happen!) or Patriots? I think so.Well, I mean if you aren't the #1 most successful franchise in the league you should jettison your coach? And one of the main reasons you'd want to be the Colts is precisely that 2011 did happen and you have Andrew Luck. As for Torch, the 2 rings don't shelter them. Thats silly. The two rings show they are capable of winning rings and that's why they are staying. Not out of some loyalty to those earlier Championships, but out of the belief that they can do it again. They could be wrong, like I said in an earlier post, there are no guarantees. But I'd rather go with Tom than hire some co-ordinator with no experience. Most new coaching hires don't work out at all. Also, you are way off. Eli would certainly keep his job, look around the NFL at some of the QB situations. Eli threw for 4,400 yards, 30 TD and 14 picks. I don't think anyone would get rid of a QB who played like that. You'd be insane not to. Back to Lucas, its hard to gauge which one you'd rather have. If you go back to 2001 then the Patriots have been to 5 Super Bowls. But if you go from say when Eli came into his own in 2005, the Giants are one of two teams with 2 titles. That means alot. Obviously in a perfect world you'd rather have Championships plus the consistency of being good every single season. But to go to a different sport, I saw the Knicks be a very good, contending team every year pretty much from say 92-99. I'd rather they won once and fell off quickly to be honest. Plus I think alot of this has to do with Coughlin's age. I mean the Steelers missed the playoffs with back to back 8-8 seasons prior to this year. No one wanted Tomlin gone. And yes I know that the Steelers in those years were better than the Giants these past 2, but if the Steelers had been 7-9 those years no one would have called for Tomlin's head, cause we know he is a good coach. Just like we know Tom is a good coach. My basic point is this, the Giants issues have been lack of talent at certain spots. Mainly the offensive line and this is due to poor drafts in 2011 and 2012. Their past 2 drafts have very good early returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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