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Oh Torch, you do know that we live in post-emo society where there are no emotions other than angst, regret and revenge.   Is this what you were after?

I'm a DC guy. All my favorite superhero stories are DC stories. All my favorite superhero characters are DC characters. Green Lantern failed miserably because it's a bad movie, not because it's a ligh

Listen, as far as corniness goes, if you can make Captain America work you can make anything work. There is no character more cornball than Captain America, and the Winter Soldier film is probably my,

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This movie is perfect for being muted and playing on a big flat screen during a party where there is loud music.

 

Iike I predicted, joyless. It can't even be considered "just for fun" because it takes itself so seriously it's like it doesn't want you to have fun.

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I don't blame them for going so dark, though. They tried the cute approach with Green Lantern and it failed miserably. They felt like the Snyder approach would work and it looks like it's not.

 

Truth be told, though, I just don't think there's much you can do with DC outside of Batman, no matter what approach you use. In comparison to Marvel their characters just suck.

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I don't blame them for going so dark, though. They tried the cute approach with Green Lantern and it failed miserably. They felt like the Snyder approach would work and it looks like it's not.

 

Truth be told, though, I just don't think there's much you can do with DC outside of Batman, no matter what approach you use. In comparison to Marvel their characters just suck.

I'm a DC guy. All my favorite superhero stories are DC stories. All my favorite superhero characters are DC characters. Green Lantern failed miserably because it's a bad movie, not because it's a lighter film. The story is idiotic, the special effects are terrible, and it isn't an especially inspired take. Whoever made it didn't care about it.

 

There are loads of great DC characters that would make for really great films. The problem is that DC has conditioned its newer fans to heavily favor Batman. Now everything has to be Batman, even Superman and Green Arrow. Marvel succeeds because they take their characters off the page and put them right on the screen -- no filter, no additives. They make their films fun, charming, accessible and most importantly -- true to what made them beloved in comics. That's what generates success.

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Yeah there's a pretty wide range of tonality between the hokey Green Lantern and the bleakest black darkness of BvS.

 

I will say, that despite not liking it, much like Man of Steel there were a few moments that were things I wanted to see since I was a kid. And a Ben Affleck Bat-film is something I want to see. The problem I think is Snyder's base core misunderstanding of the characters.

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It just all feels rushed, trying to have their Avengers too fast without the work. We should have had an Affleck solo Batman movie before this. Have him become harsher and harsher on criminals until essentially becoming a bad guy himself. Have the last scene be of a man reading the paper, can't see his identity, we slowly zoom in. The headline reads "The Batman Has Gone Too Far Again!". The man puts the paper down--it's Clark Kent!. He gets a look of determination on his face and takes off his glasses. The End. People would be dying to see Superman go after him in the next movie at that point.

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I don't think it's a matter of conditioning the audience to like Batman, I think the issue is that he's the only character who will appeal to non comic book fans.

 

If you think there's another character you could make a movie about that would work on a mass audience I'd love to hear it. And who you would cast.

 

And yeah, the whole thing feels rushed, but it's only because GL sucked and Superman Returns sucked. They're panicking because they don't know what to do, and from a business standpoint I get it.

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Yeah there's a pretty wide range of tonality between the hokey Green Lantern and the bleakest black darkness of BvS.

 

I will say, that despite not liking it, much like Man of Steel there were a few moments that were things I wanted to see since I was a kid. And a Ben Affleck Bat-film is something I want to see. The problem I think is Snyder's base core misunderstanding of the characters.

Totally agreed. Affleck and Jeremy Irons killed. I want to see a grown up who understands these characters make their Batman flick.

 

 

I don't think it's a matter of conditioning the audience to like Batman, I think the issue is that he's the only character who will appeal to non comic book fans.

 

...so how do you explain the runaway success of Marvel's characters in film? What makes DC's characters so fundamentally different?

 

 

If you think there's another character you could make a movie about that would work on a mass audience I'd love to hear it. And who you would cast.

 

I would love to see a Captain Marvel film where The Rock plays the Big Red Cheese as a highly immature ten year-old boy in the body of a god played for comedy and for coming-of-age drama (learning how to grow up and accept responsibility, etc). Unfortunately, I think we're gonna get a grimdark Shazam movie where he plays Black Adam.

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The problem is this, Marvel had a vision for something awesome. Have 4 individual movies and then bring them together for a huge movie. And they've gone even beyond that. It was so ambitious that I don't think people at DC or Warner or whatever could have even conceived of it.

 

Now DCs issue is that Marvel is so far along with this huge shared universe. Anything DC does would seem small in comparison, unless they also created their own huge shared universe. The problem with that though is that DC will just be seen as copying Marvel. So it's kind of a damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

Ofcourse alot of the problem would be alleviated if they simply made better movies.

 

They are trying to make The Empire Strikes Back, without making Star Wars before it. The first Super Man movie needs to be FUN. It needs Clark to be like "holy crap, I can fly and do all this crap. This is AWESOME". And go around saving the day without a care in the world. The 2nd or third movie could deal with him having the weight of the world on his shoulders and all that. But you need that first act. You need that fun movie.

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Marvel kick started their whole franchise with an unknown character (in the mainstream) with Iron Man. If DC/Warner really committed, got the right cast and production behind it, they could too. Maybe suicide squad will do it, but I doubt it. Batman everywhere.

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I like your Captain Marvel idea, actually.

 

Generally, though, I think the DC characters are too godlike and corny, and that combined stigma will make them a hard sell.

 

Not that Thor isn't godlike and corny, of course, but he's the exception in Marvel. In DC, those characters seem to be the norm.

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Marvel kick started their whole franchise with an unknown character (in the mainstream) with Iron Man. If DC/Warner really committed, got the right cast and production behind it, they could too. Maybe suicide squad will do it, but I doubt it. Batman everywhere.

Well that's what GL was supposed to be for DC, a wise cracking 3rd rate character who set the stage for the rest. When that failed they had no choice but to speed things up.

 

And go back to Batman.

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I loved BvS. Expectations are a funny thing. Based on all the negative buzz surrounding this film coupled with the bad trailer and the fact that Man of Steel was underwhelming, I thought BvS would be "ok" at best. So I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

If you thought it would be okay at best why go see it opening weekend at theater prices?

 

Not being snarky, I'm honestly curious. If I think a movie is gonna be okay at best I catch it on Netflix at some later point. Or 2nd or 3rd week in the theater at afternoon prices if the word of mouth is really good.

 

Opening weekend is a strong move for a mediocre movie.

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I like your Captain Marvel idea, actually.

 

Generally, though, I think the DC characters are too godlike and corny, and that combined stigma will make them a hard sell.

Listen, as far as corniness goes, if you can make Captain America work you can make anything work. There is no character more cornball than Captain America, and the Winter Soldier film is probably my, and a lot of peoples' favorite Marvel flick.

 

DC has a bunch of godlike characters, yes, but they've also got tons of great street level characters. I would love to see a Blue Beetle/Booster Gold buddy comedy. I would love to see a surrealistic Doom Patrol horror movie. It would be great if they could just make Green Lantern a straight up beat cop/detective story that takes place in space instead of a big, dumb space opera where they need to save the universe from Parallax or the Red Lanterns....or whatever Geof Johns bull****.

 

This is the big problem with superhero films and I think once studios breach it we'll start getting better films. They need to stop making these movies that resolve in a big dumb CGI fight. They need to stop making movies where Batman has to SAVE THE CITY, or the Doom Patrol has to SAVE THE WORLD! These movies need to become smaller and more personal. The stakes need to be scaled down. I would so much rather see a Batman movie that takes place in one night, where Batman has to solve a single mystery than another Batman movie where the whole city as at stake. It would be great to see a Doom Patrol movie where they have to...say rescue The Chief from some sentient pocket dimension. This is why Deadpool was so great. It was a character study. Not some big dumb save the world action movie. This is how you make one of these "corny godlike" characters work as a film. You humanize them. Make them feel scaled down. That's why they work in comics -- when they do work.

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I loved BvS. Expectations are a funny thing. Based on all the negative buzz surrounding this film coupled with the bad trailer and the fact that Man of Steel was underwhelming, I thought BvS would be "ok" at best. So I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

If you thought it would be okay at best why go see it opening weekend at theater prices?

Not being snarky, I'm honestly curious. If I think a movie is gonna be okay at best I catch it on Netflix at some later point. Or 2nd or 3rd week in the theater at afternoon prices if the word of mouth is really good.

Opening weekend is a strong move for a mediocre movie.

To mirror your sentiment, I don't mean to sound snarky about this, but if I'm going to wait to catch it on Netflix I might as well not watch it at all. It would be like saying I don't think the Superbowl between the Broncos and Panthers is going to be a good game, I'll just wait to watch the replay on the NFL Network next month. At that point, you lose the chance to be in the moment with the game so why even bother?
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So you watch movies to have a shared experience with the masses? Personally I watch them to spend a couple hours out of my head being entertained. I can be just as entertained by a indie movie only 14 people have ever seen as by Star Wars most people have seen.

 

Moving that logic forward, kids born today should never watch Casablanca, Citizen Kane, or A New Hope because most people have already seen it?

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So you watch movies to have a shared experience with the masses? Personally I watch them to spend a couple hours out of my head being entertained. I can be just as entertained by a indie movie only 14 people have ever seen as by Star Wars most people have seen.

 

Moving that logic forward, kids born today should never watch Casablanca, Citizen Kane, or A New Hope because most people have already seen it?

But they don't have choice do they?

 

He did say in the moment. While you could watch the movie on "Netflix" months from now and love it, the feeling would probably be less intense and most likely spoiled. Sorta like watching a football game months after it was played.

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