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Avengers 2


334 replies to this topic

#276
The Human Torch

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Fun. I haven't seen A2 yet, but so far I would say;

1. Captain America 2
2. Guardians of the Galaxy
3. Daredevil (Netflix)
4. Iron Man 1
5. Avengers 1
6. Captain America 1
7. Thor 1
8. Iron Man 3
9. Thor 2
10. Agents of Shield

After #6 I go from I LIKE THIS MOAR PLS to Meh Next.

#277
The Human Torch

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Much later afterthought: I almost feel it is unreal we can rank a Top Ten for the Marvel Filmverse. We are now the majority market. Gotta savor that.

#278
Stevil

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Always with the lists...


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#279
Justus

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Fun. I haven't seen A2 yet, but so far I would say;

1. Captain America 2
2. Guardians of the Galaxy
3. Daredevil (Netflix)
4. Iron Man 1
5. Avengers 1
6. Captain America 1
7. Thor 1
8. Iron Man 3
9. Thor 2
10. Agents of Shield

After #6 I go from I LIKE THIS MOAR PLS to Meh Next.

Short list:

 

1. Cap 2

2. Cap 1

3. Avengers

4. Avengers 2

5. IM 1



#280
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It felt too much like the first one to me. They just replaced monsters with robots.

This was one problem I had. It was kind of too quippy all around as well. Not a bad thing on the first viewing, but it was almost too lighthearted. I feel like a lot of lines will induce a :rolleyes: upon re-watch.

 

Visually and from a strictly entertainment perspective, I loved it. Super neat movie. But the story/villain didn't really work as well for me as some of the others. IM1, Avengers 1, Captain America 2 (and maybe 1), and Guardians I probably thought were "better." That doesn't turn me off to MCU in any way shape or form, that's just what I thought about it.

 

I will say I'm glad Hawkeye didn't die. I thought they were helplessly telegraphing that from the get-go. I was convinced he was going to lift Thor's hammer and he was going to bite it while making some heroic sacrifice by like 20 minutes into the movie.



#281
Justus

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If there's a problem with A2, it is that the movie was clearly a "bridge" story. Marvel is so intent on creating the film version of a company-wide maxi-series, that by design, one of the stories will end up not being as effective and/or important as the others. Being a mere "bridge" film just to get to Cap 3 (the character seemingly at the center or having direct connections to most of the biggest antagonists) meant A2 was not going to be the all-important tale. Several interesting elements in the film enough to be one of my favorite MCU movies, but not a home-run, either.


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#282
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I really enjoyed this one. Like...a lot. Not as much as Guardians, but still a lot. 

 

Spoiler



#283
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That was the worst movie I ever saw! Terrible acting, terrible writing, horrible plot. I can't believe they spent so much on that turd.

 

Spoiler



#284
Driver

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I didn't overly love it, but it wasn't bad. But I did realize something I may be burnt out on spectacle. I waited my whole life for the FX to catch up with movies like this so they could be fully realized-- but I started to feel a major Prequel trilogy level of nothing is real. It's the uncanny valley, every fx shot is so perfectly realized and digitally assisted camera moves so constant that the direction and construction overwhelm everything else. And when the story is okay (but not amazing) and the characters likeable, (but not lovable) it becomes to self aware of what it is. 

 

This is something about the new Star Wars movie I'm looking forward to is that the spectacle is maybe dialed back a notch to give us something that doesn't get in the way of the story.

 

Or maybe I'm full of it-- maybe Star Wars was like that to adults when it came out and I excused it cause I was a kid. It's not like STar Wars and James Bond didn't establish squeezing a story between massive fx set pieces 30 years ago.

 

Or maybe I'm just tired of every superhero movie thinking it has to have massive amounts of destructo porn.

 

It's just-- when you start destroying cities you completely lose the scale of things. Look at the city to live in. I'm about 15 minutes from downtown LA. I can see the buildings in the distance from my hood. It's hard to scale the thought of 3-4 people covering that entire area if it was full of killer robots.

 

But don't get me wrong, it was certainly fun and what it advertised to be-- and I enjoyed it. I loved Vision saving Wanda, giving them that tiny moment. Not too worried about the core team quitting or being scattered-- they all went their separate ways at the end of the last movie too. We know they're just a phone call (or rainbow bridge) away.


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#285
The Human Torch

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I think ID4 brought about the modern age of destruction pron. I know how old that is, and I know it was just the modern War of the Worlds. However ID4 feels like the template for most superhero films now. It's almost like to get the Suits to get the super suits the movies were pitched as ID4 with Capes.

Same old same old...

I want to see;

Se7en Angry Matt Murdocks
Romancing the Stone of Kryptonite
Fantastic Four Thousand Leagues Beneath the Sea
Flash to the Future
Medicine Hulk
The Black Widow Who Loved Me
Thor and the Last Crusade

#286
Driver

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Yes-- exactly. I feel like Daredevil, the second Wolverine movie, Days of Future Past and Winter Soldier each had potential to go that bold new direction-- movies of whatever genre that just happened to have superheroes int hem. Though in the third act, they all get scared of what they're doing and turn into a superhero set piece.

 

What would be awesome is if they did it early-- Like Empire Strikes Back. Put the big fancy battle up front-- then make the final climax a personal battle.


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#287
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I didn't overly love it, but it wasn't bad. But I did realize something I may be burnt out on spectacle. I waited my whole life for the FX to catch up with movies like this so they could be fully realized-- but I started to feel a major Prequel trilogy level of nothing is real. It's the uncanny valley, every fx shot is so perfectly realized and digitally assisted camera moves so constant that the direction and construction overwhelm everything else. And when the story is okay (but not amazing) and the characters likeable, (but not lovable) it becomes to self aware of what it is. 

 

This is something about the new Star Wars movie I'm looking forward to is that the spectacle is maybe dialed back a notch to give us something that doesn't get in the way of the story.

 

Or maybe I'm full of it-- maybe Star Wars was like that to adults when it came out and I excused it cause I was a kid. It's not like STar Wars and James Bond didn't establish squeezing a story between massive fx set pieces 30 years ago.

 

Or maybe I'm just tired of every superhero movie thinking it has to have massive amounts of destructo porn.

 

It's just-- when you start destroying cities you completely lose the scale of things. Look at the city to live in. I'm about 15 minutes from downtown LA. I can see the buildings in the distance from my hood. It's hard to scale the thought of 3-4 people covering that entire area if it was full of killer robots.

 

But don't get me wrong, it was certainly fun and what it advertised to be-- and I enjoyed it. I loved Vision saving Wanda, giving them that tiny moment. Not too worried about the core team quitting or being scattered-- they all went their separate ways at the end of the last movie too. We know they're just a phone call (or rainbow bridge) away.

You touch on very important points; i've said similar about films overdoing the "wow" / spectacle factor, but not having much heart and story. One walks away from many of that type of film with nothing emotionally lasting. One of the reasons I really like the Cap films is that his conflicts--even if tied to larger events to come--are not the obligatory "bigger than big" noisy battles that poisoned too many fantasy films for decades--now overboard in the CG era of the 2000s. The fall of the SHIELD ship actually took a correct backseat to Cap trying to reach Bucky.

 

That's rare in this nearly 30+ year era of the explosive fantasy movie. If anyone remembers one of the TV spots for Aliens, and the way big fantasy is presented today, its hard to think anything has changed, other than the basic subject:

 

 

 

"Aliens is the wild roller-coaster ride moviegoers have been waiting for all summer!

 

The best action film of the year!

 

Unbelievably exciting!

 

Sheer exhilaration!

 

Fasten your seat belts for the ultimate summer action film!

 

Aliens will blow you to the back wall of the theatre!"

 

Sounds familiar, even after the passing of nearly thirty years.

 

 

At least Cap2 did not have to knock "you to the back wall of the theatre" to be a successful, big fantasy movie.

 

A2 is not the worst of the offenders, and certain parts were really entertaining, but in the end, after city-busting Parallax in Green Lantern, the city-busting Chitauri in Avengers, and now Ultron's army, superhero films need to take another direction. Hell, over 50 years of Marvel did not always have to publish "bigger than big" battles (well, at least not until the 90s....) to capture the attention of audiences.

 

Yes, film is a different language than print, but if Marvel is more than just a profit machine, and actually desires repeat business online / physical media now and in the future, they need to avoid overdosing on the doing things just because it can be done approach.



#288
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I just rewatched Aliens and the thing that was most effective about it was the intimacy and claustrophobia of it. I can only dread Neil Blomkamp giving us Aliens exploding out of skyscrapers instead of people.


Edited by Driver, 03 May 2015 - 08:10 PM.


#289
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I took issue with the whole lift the town in to the sky thing. It seemed unnecessary. Like they needed to somehow validate the threat of Ultron. Although I think they missed a trick. Ultron was built up to be this great autonomous AI. He could use the internet to disappear. He was a great consciousness. Yet, he needed to buy weapons from a dodgy arms dealer. He needed the flimsy alliance with the twins. And he chose to destroy the earth by force. None of that was necessary. He could have targeted infrastructure, governments, sattelite networks, power grids and become a much larger threat. Effectively wiping out humanity by cutting them off from vital supplies.

Instead we have the magic maguffin staff wielding, robot making, rock-thrower antagonist. I mean, why did he have to physically travel anywhere?? He was more powerful than he knew almost.

The finale put me in mind of Magneto's ridiculous stadium moving ability from X-Men: Days of Future Past. A side issue. But if he was really that powerful he could wipe out humanity single handedly as well.
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#290
Stevil

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I really enjoyed this one. Like...a lot. Not as much as Guardians, but still a lot. 

 

Spoiler

Both women are only succesful because of Thor and Iron Man respectively. They're both brilliant women. But take away Stark and Thor and you don't have much left.



#291
Mara Jade Skywalker

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Wow. 



#292
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Lmao

#293
Good God a Bear

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Stevil did a better job of making someone's head explode.


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#294
Lucas1138

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Anyway, steering the conversation back away from blatant misogyny for a moment...

 

Avengers: AoU, and this feels absurd to say given the actual dollars involved, kind of disappointed at the domestic box office this weekend with only $187M. Even many conservative projections had it looking at a $210M opening.

 

If it follows the same track as Avengers 1 did, where the opening weekend represented 33% of it's total gross that would put AoU at $561M. More likely, is that it ends up somewhere between 38% and 43% of the gross; so a range of $492 to $435M. I think that would definitely be considered underperforming.

 

Even if it ends up having tremendous staying power (always possible) and it ends up with only 28-35% ($534M to $667M range) of the gross coming from the opening weekend (Avengers 33%, Dark Knight 30%, Dark Knight Rises 35%, PotC: Dead Man's Chest 32%, Toy Story 3 27%, Transformers 2 27%), it would need to hit 30% for it to match Avengers 1. That would be a herculean effort.

 

I was similarly disappointed, content wise, with Iron Man 3 and it's opening weekend ended up with 42% of it's gross. That puts AoU at $445. Still huge obviously, but way short of where I think most had it pegged. Because I have faith in the MCU machine, I'd feel comfortable bumping that down to right around 38% and calling it $500M. I said before that this movie could kinda stink and still make $500M, I suppose I'll stick to that.



#295
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Misogeny??

Honest to god you twist people's words in to **** Lucas. I don't hate women. I disagreed with a statement that Cerina said. It happened to involve women. And yes I am a man. But that doesn't mean I hate women.

I notice you weren't able to provide any facts to contradict my statement either.

I swear that if you implied that to my face in real life I'd smack you so hard in the mouth. You cheeky bastard.

#296
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Physical threats are a ban-able offense. You should calm down.

#297
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Do you just get a slap on the wrist for character assassination? What about slander?



#298
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Nightly is wonderful.


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#299
Cerina

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I really enjoyed this one. Like...a lot. Not as much as Guardians, but still a lot. 

 

Spoiler

Both women are only succesful because of Thor and Iron Man respectively. They're both brilliant women. But take away Stark and Thor and you don't have much left.

 

Are you serious? Being brilliant in itself isn't enough for a woman to be? I'll grant you that through circumstance they both got a boost from the guys, but without being brilliant, those little boosts would mean nothing. Pepper was running Stark Industries long before Tony signed it over to her, and she was doing so because he could not do it. He's brilliant, but without his family's money and Pepper, Tony wouldn't be much. Jane was already a scientist doing ground-breaking research before Thor every showed up. And since then, apparently she's just been killing it. I'm sure he shows up now and again to sex her up, but frankly, Thor doesn't have the brilliance required to advance her research. It's not like he's doing anything but existing. 

 

But actually, what I liked most about it was that both of these women are still out there doing their own thing. Their lives obviously don't revolve around these men. They took what little advantage they were given, and totally ran with it. Their subsequent success is all theirs. And had they never met Tony or Thor, they likely would have been successful nonetheless because of their brilliance and tenacity. 

 

And yeah, stop threatening people. That wasn't character assassination or slander. Perhaps you should look up both of those terms. 



#300
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I said they're both brilliant. But in the movies they got their leg up from the guys. I think it's a shame personally. Because otherwise they are either damsels in distress or eye candy. There's nothing left on screen to show they're brilliant.

The facts are that Pepper went from PA/Aide/Secretary for Tony Stark to CEO of Stark Enterprises when she hooked up with him. I concede that she was running things when stark was a mess. But I still think she was in a fortunate position and not self-made.

Jane was hanging round with a student, a bum and a failed professor before she met Thor and her well formulated theories proved to be right. However. She didn't invent trans-dimensional travel. It was always there. Now she tours universities giving lectures on it.

BTW I didn't threaten anyone. I said what I would do if someone inferred that about me in real life. I was actually implying that the said gentleman was hiding behind his keyboard and wouldn't be so brave face to face.



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