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Yes, this Orton/Triple H/Shield vs. Daniel Bryan thing is working very well for me.

I've always hated chick wrestling, even if the wrestlers were talented. I think it's because it's harder for me to suspend disbelief. Part of what makes wrestling work for me is when thou have inter

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Pretty good Raw this week. Really like pairing Perfect Jr with Heyman, and I appreciate the Fritz Von Erich angle with HHH.

 

Not a big fan of the Shield, but giving them some gold helps the angle.

 

The Ryback thing continues to fall short, but I think it's moving forward.

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Pretty good Raw this week. Really like pairing Perfect Jr with Heyman, and I appreciate the Fritz Von Erich angle with HHH.

 

Not a big fan of the Shield, but giving them some gold helps the angle.

 

The Ryback thing continues to fall short, but I think it's moving forward.

 

I actually think the Shield is like the only thing they've actually done well over the past 6 months with any consistency. Until ofcourse their winnig streak was ended on free tv by an injured Cena via DQ. They even made the right move by having Ambrose be the one who goes singles, cause that guy has potential to be main event.

 

The Ryback thing has been done so poorly. Ryback was one of the few faces who was over, turning him bad should have been huge. Should have been like "holy crap", he detroys everyone even more than he did as a face and he wins the title and holds it for a time. Now though, his feel turn was only so that Cena would have someone to fued with during the spring. What a waste.

 

Plus, and this is a pet peeve of mine all the time, how did Ryback even become #1 contender. He lost at WrestleMania to Mark Henry in a low midcard match. So ofcourse off that loss he is #1 contender. Thats logical.

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I'm of the opinion that the finish we got @ 'Mania was not intended, and that Henry accidentally fell awkwardly on Ryback's head. He actually looked a bit dazed ala Lesnar after his botched Shooting Star Press in Indiana vs Kurt Angle, and I felt the post-match Shell Shock on Henry kind of reinforced the idea. I mean why be able to hit it post-match after losing the match via being unable to execute it? Didn't make sense to me. I still feel that maybe Ryback was supposed to win and that the spot went wrong.

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I think Ryback's loss at WM was totally planned. The intent was to show that he could lose to anybody, that he's NOT Goldberg. They want to see if he can get over as a heel. It's good booking. Frankly it's all they can do with him at this point.

 

 

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I think Ryback's loss at WM was totally planned. The intent was to show that he could lose to anybody, that he's NOT Goldberg. They want to see if he can get over as a heel. It's good booking. Frankly it's all they can do with him at this point.

 

I don't have a problem with him losing. I don't even really like Ryback. It just makes no sense for him to lose a match at the biggest show of the year and then be named #1 contender. How does that work?

 

The issue I have with Rybacks heal turn is that it doesn't seem like its "hey we can turn Ryback heel and do something great with him". It seems like "we need someone for Cena to beat for the next 2 or 3 months, lets turn Ryback heel".

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I think the logic is to turn him heel and hope he gets some traction. If he does then he can turn face and become the guy they want him to be. It's what they did to the Rock. The hope is that he can do something as a heel to get people interested, but frankly I think modern fans are prejudiced against roidy muscle dudes.

 

He's got his work cut out for him. He needs to cut a memorable promo or something, because the Goldberg chants just aren't stopping.

 

On a side note, Goldberg's gotta be loving it because a few years ago HHH said that WWE fans had forgotten him. Oops.

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I'm guessing you mean Rocks initial heel turn when he joined the Nation, rather than his 2nd one where he joined the Corporation? I think there are alot of differences though. First and foremost is that the Rock didn't immediately get a title shot upon joining the Nation.

 

I just don't like the way they;ve done this, I have no problem with him becoming a bad guy. Just the way they;ve done it. I don't like the going back and showing the reasons, its just bad storytelling. Good storytelling is to as it happens show him slowly getting fed up with Cena and then finally having enough and turning. Then instead of immediately throwing him into a title feud upon his turn, have him go and destroy some mid level faces for 3 months before "earning" a title shot with Cena.

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Going back and showing the reasons for his turn was horrible horrible horrible, and the overall execution was botched, but I think it was the right move for his character.

 

And yeah, I'm referring to Rocks first heel turn. It was so good that they bumped him up to the leader of the NOD, and my guess is that they hope the same formula will work with Ryberg.

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I just don't think they have a long term vision for Rybacks heel turn, its just "Cena needs an opponent". You are right though that turning a guy heel and then back face is a smart way to create a star. It's far easier to get the crowd to hate you than to love you, so you make a guy heel, get everyone to hate them then you can turn that hate emotion into love if you do it correctly.

 

This is another example of why they need stables. The Rock went into a heel stable and immediately had the heat of Farooq and the Nation. He didn't have to do anything himself to get that heat, just being associated with the Nation made him hated. Now the Rock was so talented he probably would have become a huge star even if not in the Nation, but being in the Nation made it easier and have him a nice platform to start on.

 

Same thing would work with Ryback, wouldn't it be great if you had a stable of Paul Heyman guys? I mean you have Punk as the leader, Curtis Axel as the young guy and then also give him a tag team. Then have Ryback join as the #2 guy/enforcer. He'd get all the heat thats already on Heyman and Punk. Plus he has time to develop an actual heel persona. The first few months of being a heel he can leech off of Punk/Heyman and develop his own heel traits.

 

Stables make it so easy to book, you can take your 4 or 5 of your biggest stars (not every guy fits into a stable, Austin never did. I'd say Cena wouldn't either) and then put them all as leaders of stables. So you have say 4 big stars leading stables, put 4 or 5 other guys in each of those stables. Thats 16-25 guys who basically can leech off of the stable leaders heat. Plus it makes matches easy to book. You have the leader of one stable fight the 2nd guy in another, the 2 tag teams fight, etc. You can get months of fresh matches off of one feud between stables. Plus it has built in storylines, new guys join the stable, guys get thrown out of stables, guys turn on their stable, the stable turns on the leader. Just gives you so many easy storylines that write themselves.

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I don't they had a long term plan for Rock, either. They turned him heel simply because he wasn't getting over as a face.

 

I also love the idea of a Heyman stable, but it's probably gonna take a hit when Punk returns, as I think he'll turn face again.

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I don't they had a long term plan for Rock, either. They turned him heel simply because he wasn't getting over as a face.

 

I also love the idea of a Heyman stable, but it's probably gonna take a hit when Punk returns, as I think he'll turn face again.

 

Oh I agree, they couldn't have forseen him becoming so popular. But I think just putting him in the nation was a plan in and of itself. He could be the young braggart who always like kinda pissed Farooq off.

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I don't think that was planned, either. Rock was just a background guy until he finally got to speak, and when he did he shocked everyone with his awesomeness. If I remember correctly Rock had to lobby hard with creative to get that first promo.

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I think it was almost like "you fans think the Rock is annoying and shoved down your throat and not deserving of the push he got, well thats how we will make his character." Thats what he was in the Nation, a guy who hadn't paid dues, didn't respect Farooq and was kinda oblivious to the fact that everyone hated him. I can't remember the exact amount of time that passed between his joining the Nation and when he started talking, but I don't think it was that long.

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Totally agree, but I don't think they were expecting much from him when they put him in the NOD. Roddy Piper once said that 75% of getting over is mic skills, and that pretty much summed the Rock up. Great worker, great look, but none of that would've mattered if his interviews weren't so crazy awesome.

 

I read somewhere that HHH wants to get away from scripted interviews, and I hope that actually happens. Rock got himself over writing his own stuff, much like the old guys did, and I'd really like to see the young guys get the same opportunity. Sink or swim.

 

Speaking of solid interviews, did you see the Bray Wyatt promo? Good stuff.

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Totally agree, but I don't think they were expecting much from him when they put him in the NOD. Roddy Piper once said that 75% of getting over is mic skills, and that pretty much summed the Rock up. Great worker, great look, but none of that would've mattered if his interviews weren't so crazy awesome.

 

I read somewhere that HHH wants to get away from scripted interviews, and I hope that actually happens. Rock got himself over writing his own stuff, much like the old guys did, and I'd really like to see the young guys get the same opportunity. Sink or swim.

 

Speaking of solid interviews, did you see the Bray Wyatt promo? Good stuff.

 

Scripted interviews have killed the business, guys should be given bullet points or "the gist" of what to say, but thats it. You can tell when a guy is trying to recite a script and it never works.

 

As for Rock, I still think they had really high hopes for him long term. I think they put him in the Nation to put him squarely in the mid card where he could learn how to be a pro wrestler and slowly gain fans respect. Ofcourse they had no idea that he would ever do what he did and become the mega star he did or that he'd do it so quickly. But I do think long term they still saw him as a possible main event type.

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