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Witch King VS Gandalf The White
Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:31 AM
Posted 04 March 2006 - 07:05 PM
1. Wizarding School????????? Holy Smokes, Indy! I just about choked on my Corn Flakes when I saw that gem. I don't know what else to say. I'm speechless.
2. For the best explanation you will ever need for the Istari and their cloaked power, refer to JRR Tolkien's own Letter #156 (To Robert Murray, S.J. on 11-04-54). What better source than the author himself, eh?
3. Gandalf was every bit the match of the Witch King - and then some. As you will see in the letter, one major point of Gandalf's presence at Minas Tirith was to "forbid the entrance of the Lord of the Nazgul to Minas Tirith" when human resistance had failed. Otherwise, his entire mission in Middle Earth was to rally and inspire *others* to stick up for themselves. One of the most beautiful aspects of the book is that Gandalf *doesn't* engage in single combat with the Witch King. He doesn't need to. His efforts brought Theoden and the Rohirrim to the Pelennor Fields in such a way that (his) divine interference would prove unnecessary.
In this respect, Peter Jackson got it half right. The scene was only good in the sense that (just as in the book) the Rohirrim's arrival required the Witch King to tend to other matters. The book also makes it clear that Gandalf himself withdrew only reluctantly, and only because Pippin had so desperately urged him to save Faramir from cremation. It is true that Gandalf - as an incarnate being - was capable of destruction by another. But one gets *no* sense from the book that the Witch King would have left him quivering on the ground like a pathetic worm.
In that sense, Peter Jackson completely blew it. The movie gained nothing from postponing the encounter until after the walls had been breached (I think it's rather nice that, in the book, the armies of Mordor never do quite manage to enter the city), and it lost quite a bit by matching Shadowfax against a flying beast. The scene in the book was mesmerizing: white wizard on white horse against black sorcerer on black horse. Anyone with money to bet would place it on Gandalf, but at least the book leaves it your imagination. That movie scene really, *really* sucked. And the exploding staff nonsense was an unmitigated disaster. Please ...
Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:15 AM
As for as putting up a fight, im completely with you on that one. Even after his staff was splintered to bits he kind of sat there just looking up like he was all afraid. its like dude you still have a sword, you should be the last one to be scared. weak effort by pete on that scene.
I've commented on this scene before, but I agree it was very disappointing.
First, Gandalf should have put up a fight! I totally understand that they can't have him win this battle, but he should have done something. It's ridiculous that he just sits there and gets smacked around like a chump. If Eowyn and Merry can stand up to him, then certainly Gandalf could hold his ground for a bit.
Second, there was no need to break Gandalf's staff. It makes no sense and is completely unnecessary. The breaking of the staff is symbolic of a loss of station and authority. This has even been shown to us earlier with Saruman. How could the Witch-King have that power? And why would the filmmakers want him to? Very strange choice.
Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:44 AM
Hmmmm. ok, deep breath. Gandalf is immortal isn't he? Similar to the elves, i thought he could not die of old age. Therefore he is not a human man (forgive me if i'm wrong), but something more than that, sent with great power and wisdom to middle earth by the Valar.And what was wizard school (i dont recall it being in the silmarillion) and where is it mentioned in any texts? Just wondering, i'd love to read it.
Witch-King of Angmar:
The Witch King is MORE powerful then gandalf. Even if gandalf is a Maia he is still a human man. As the book states Sauron put a spell on the Witch King that states NO MAN CAN KILL HIM now on the part that gandalf could have killed him with a spell is untrue becuase the Witch King was given a wizard teaching by sauron when he became a nazgul not only that but he practiced the wizard magic for more then 18,000 years and gandalf was born for more then 8000 years. And gandalf only had more then 7000 but less then 8000 to practice wizardry along with saruman who had MORE years of practice then that of gandalf. Now comes the Maia thing. Gandalf was a Maia but was still sent to complete his task from the gods and was given the grace of the spirits. Never in the book or movies or even GAMES does it state gandalf was given the strength boost of the maia's so what gandalf gained was support from the gods and a little stronger gandalf known as Gandalf the white. The god's relized that what they did to Sauron was a big mistake as saroun reached the powers of the gods as his army grew stronger. But how did he get to a level hire then what he was? When he forged the ring that while on his finger he was as powerful as the gods and nothing could hurt him or help him. The hand of the rings was cut and he lost it, BUT he became a spirit who lived in the spirit world this you know but while the ring was forgotten he grew with his army this you shoutl also know as saruon was once the most powerful wizard of them all given strength, wisdom, power (wizard) and craftsmenship of knowing how to create goddish ring was the big mistake that the gods made. Ultimatly providing Saruon the resourced needed to make the one ring. He betraded middle earth and created his own army capable of killing all of middle earth and then the story of how they fought in mount doom and isildur came to place. What saruon did not send out at that time was the 9 nazguls? Why? The nazguls where still training wizards but one in particular became the nazgul king who had much more years to practise magic. He was sent out to battle but before he could make it on time he saw that saruon was defeated knowing this the witch king went to wait for the spirit of sauron to once again come out he knew this and when sauron did pop out he cursed the witch king so he could not be killed by man and could not be killed by regular arms for his late attendence when they battled. Knowing this the nazgul went to practise more and more knowing this. My question is how could gandalf the white possibly kill the witch king the book states that the nazgul (witch king) was going to be killed by gandalf but the problem is anyways it would have not worked as only sauron could (not knowing that women could kill him)kill or free him of his spell as he created the nazgul and taught him. Easily gandalf would have been destroyed by him in a magic fight. Though Eowyn would have also if merry had not found the nazguls witch blade (dagger) that had saruons poisen mix in there. The witch king was stabbed and was hurt for moments and was stabbed by Eowyn. It's stated that though the witch king was killed in the regular form he was sent to saruon immendiatly as a spirit and then saruon gave him another chance. The witch king was sent to minas morgul where he was remade but not in enough time to fully recreate him Saruon died by the ring being poured into Mt.Doom. But though if he did have enough time he would have been sent even more powerful and would have not only killed Eowyn and merry but would have killed all of the good heros with his magic. BTW the ghoust could not even kill him. NO MAN CAN KILL HIM. Even though gandalf was a Maia he was still man. He was raised in gondor as so was Saruman as they joined the wizard school became wizards and later on the 2 Greatest wizards next to the witch king and the most powerful wizard ever to be made Sauron.
Posted 06 June 2006 - 06:52 AM
Posted 06 June 2006 - 07:50 AM
And you got pwned cos they essentially rubbished all your claims on how powerful the Witch King of Angmar was, and also pointed out how lame the thread was. So i'll post another owned pic, just to ram it home
And i think this pic highlights the posters feelings on this thread.....