Marvel's The Avengers

[D-Ray Kenobi]

I'd venture a guess that the DC creative camp knows that there's a public perception problem with their characters, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this ballsy relaunch in the comics.

[danger]

didn't keaton kill people in batman? is that the only time batman killed?

[Obsidian]

I kinda agree about the DC characters. Individually, they're kinda seared into the American conscience as campy, but I see no reason that they wouldn't work as an ensemble. Their powers are no more "one trick pony" than any of the X-men's are. I think if a film writer came in who would really focus on "humanizing" the DC characters in a way that people don't expect, it would work brilliantly. But then of course, people would be mad that they're not getting the live action version of the campy, cartoons they've grown up with.

 

Which is part of my point from before. Marvel films are easier to do, and their characters translate to film better, because they aren't as established in the minds of people, in the way that DC ones are. DC heroes have been around for decades longer than 99% of Marvel's, and have many more stories with them, which makes it harder condense down into film form. They are also better known, and permiate the culture more. They have a certain image, which makes it harder for them to break out of that image when it comes time for a film than Marvel's, who have the advantage of being largely obscure, and therefor fewer preconceived image problems on the part of the audience (who outside of comics had heard of Iron Man before the movie? Almost no one.). Going in to a Marvel film, the audience is less likely to have a set idea in their heads about what they should expect than a DC one.

[danger]

She's gone beyond that.

she's gone nowhere.

 

 

Why, again? You didn't really explain anything.

do you really want long detailed explainations of why we don't don't like certain mediums of superheroes,

or can we just say we don't like them and leave it at that?

[Cerina]

To be fair, that show was cancelled before it began. Probably because it was doing everything you're complaining about.

 

Granted, I haven't ready a Wonder Woman comic in probably 5 years. But she was light years more interesting and complex than the bondage babe she started out as.

[Cerina]

To be fair, that show was cancelled before it began. Probably because it was doing everything you're complaining about.

 

Granted, I haven't ready a Wonder Woman comic in probably 5 years. But she was light years more interesting and complex than the bondage babe she started out as.

[danger]

To be fair, that show was cancelled before it began.

the pilot failed. that's not being cancelled before beginning.

 

Probably because it was doing everything you're complaining about.

who's side are you on?

[Cerina]

Your mom's!!

[danger]

double poster!

 

 

[Dom]

I admit I'm being too hard on JL for the sake of being a jaggoff. They are obvs very powerful and have carved out deeper back stories than the general public knows about. I just prefer the Avengers, and I'm trying to explain to you why on screen Justice League would appear goofier than the set of heroes chosen for Avengers. Hulk is big and stupid but he knows this, his job is to smash. He's also delightfully hard to control when he's doing it. Thor is a badass Norse God with heavy metal hair and one of the world's only famous hammers. Captain America can be ruthless when the person at the end of the barrel deserves it. Tony Stark, well, do I need to explain? It's a team with swagger. They are rockstars. The Justice League, Batman included, are sticks in the mud.

 

I'll put it like this - I'd rather party with the Avengers, and so would everyone else. That's why they get a movie and Justice League doesnt.

 

 

It's all in the writing. As we've seen in the past, if a Superman movie is done well, people will flock to it like the original Donner version. No one wants to see a Superman movie where he saves a plane and then doesn't do much of anything but mope around for the next hour.

 

 

Which is part of my point from before. Marvel films are easier to do, and their characters translate to film better, because they aren't as established in the minds of people, in the way that DC ones are. DC heroes have been around for decades longer than 99% of Marvel's, and have many more stories with them, which makes it harder condense down into film form. They are also better known, and permiate the culture more. They have a certain image, which makes it harder for them to break out of that image when it comes time for a film than Marvel's, who have the advantage of being largely obscure, and therefor fewer preconceived image problems on the part of the audience (who outside of comics had heard of Iron Man before the movie? Almost no one.). Going in to a Marvel film, the audience is less likely to have a set idea in their heads about what they should expect than a DC one.

 

 

DC characters can be easy, too, as long as they just stick to the core concept. There really isn't that much to condense in that regard. Their problem seems to be getting some of the crappier writers out there to write the screenplays.

 

 

she's gone nowhere.

 

Yes, let's base that on a single pilot of a show that was never made. I'm talking about the comics, she's changed quite a bit, most noticeabley during the eighties.

 

 

do you really want long detailed explainations of why we don't don't like certain mediums of superheroes,

or can we just say we don't like them and leave it at that?

 

It would help, as you haven't said much other than "they're boring" and your knowledge of them is apparently limited. Your whole experience with them seems to come from movies, old cartoons, secondhand information and a smattering of random comics.

[danger]

you asked for it...

[Guest bodega]

ah sheet

[danger]

STUPIDMAN

 

-too many powers/indestructible. How does he ever have an interesting conflict? He's super everything. He can even make the world reverse rotation and turn back time if he does make a mistake. Give him a foe he can't beat, and all he has to do is try harder. BORING

 

-kryptonite. The only time he is ever in danger. WE know a hero probably won't die, but the hero doesn't usually know that. Since superman is indestructible, he acts with no restraint or forethought and just flies fists first into any conflict. BORING.

 

-incorruptible. anyone who breaks the law is bad. SIMPLISTIC

 

-the only unique thing about superman is what BILL said in Kill Bill vol. 2.

 

 

 

WONDER WOMAN

 

-just a female superman with a douche for a boyfriend.

 

-indestructible golden lasso of truth. Top five dumbest weapons ever.

 

-invisible plane. It can fly itself! Okay, I also don't like how batman's car can drive itself either, or do I like how ANY superhero has access to aircraft. But wonder woman's flying plane breaks all law of aerodynamics. Also every origin of the invisible plane is stupid.

 

-sans invisible plane…now she can fly.

 

-unmemorable enemies. Most of them don't have superpowers.

 

-unmemorable stories. I really can't think of ANY.

 

-lousy comic: lettering, story, artwork. Golden, silver, & modern age.

 

 

 

THE FLASH

 

-uninteresting powers: really fast (talking, thinking, moving)-really boring. can go through walls—I guess that's good for sneaking around, but why does he need to sneak around other than to rescue someone? Time travel, well just go catch the bad guys while they're taking a ****, why don't you?

 

-bad father-let his kid die of pneumonia

 

 

 

GREEN LANTERN

 

-anybody can be one with a magic ring.

 

-what's the mission? Team Lantern Universal Police?

 

-magic ring-no limit. BORING. It's like crouching and mashing the kick button.

 

-random laws. BS from the blue yodas.

 

-random guardians like mutants in X3.

 

-John Stewart-indecisive and weak willed.

 

-I'm not even mentioning the movie.

 

-PRO: I don't HATE green lantern, I like anything in space, so I dislike green lantern the least? I just don't see him ever needing someone like batman to help.

[danger]

just because you like something, doesn't mean i have to. and my reason doesn't have to be a thesis.

the same as just because i don't like something, doesn't mean you can't like it.

 

and some of the cartoons are friggin' awesome.

now leave me alone, and let's get back to the avengers.

[Dom]

STUPIDMAN

 

-too many powers/indestructible. How does he ever have an interesting conflict? He's super everything. He can even make the world reverse rotation and turn back time if he does make a mistake. Give him a foe he can't beat, and all he has to do is try harder. BORING

 

Easy. He fights villains on his level. Darskseid, Doomsday, Bizarro, Parasite, Zod, Kryptonite Man, Metallo, Mister Mxyzptlk, Brainiac, etc. All of them can do physical harm to him and only two from that list use Kryptonite. Luthor can match him because formerly, he was a super-genius who would come up with ways of killing Superman and later he was a corporate scientist who did the same but hid behind the law so no one could legally touch him.

 

-kryptonite. The only time he is ever in danger. WE know a hero probably won't die, but the hero doesn't usually know that. Since superman is indestructible, he acts with no restraint or forethought and just flies fists first into any conflict. BORING.

 

Incorrect. Superman can be harmed by beings who match him in strength. Also, any character who uses magic can hurt him, as he has no defense against it.

 

-incorruptible. anyone who breaks the law is bad. SIMPLISTIC

 

If you're robbing a bank/killing someone/causing mass destruction, yeah, he'll take them down. That describes pretty much every super-hero out there, however. He will look the other way for those who operate by other methods, like Batman.

 

-the only unique thing about superman is what BILL said in Kill Bill vol. 2.

 

Bill didn't even know what the hell he was talking about. He acts that way to throw people off. No one's going to expect the office goofball to be someone like Superman. Besides, Bill's speech would be more fitting a character like Thor. Sure, he had a human identity, but that wasn't who he was. He was born Thor, he's always Thor.

 

 

 

WONDER WOMAN

 

-just a female superman with a douche for a boyfriend.

 

What boyfriend? The last time she was paired with Steve Trevor was twenty-five years ago. She's briefly dated a couple other guys since then, but no one regular.

 

-indestructible golden lasso of truth. Top five dumbest weapons ever.

 

Tell that to Indiana Jones. You're also forgetting her bracelets, tiara, and various swords and shields she's used.

 

-invisible plane. It can fly itself! Okay, I also don't like how batman's car can drive itself either, or do I like how ANY superhero has access to aircraft. But wonder woman's flying plane breaks all law of aerodynamics. Also every origin of the invisible plane is stupid.

 

What's wrong with a plane that can fly itself? Marvel has a character that can fly by throwing his hammer really fast.

 

-sans invisible plane…now she can fly.

 

Yup.

 

-unmemorable enemies. Most of them don't have superpowers.

 

Actually, most of them do. But no, they're not that memorable.

 

-unmemorable stories. I really can't think of ANY.

 

You'd probably have to read some first. I've found a lot of the early stuff to be memorable, but for different reasons. The Perez run was pretty good, as were the Jimenez, Rucka and Simone runs.

 

-lousy comic: lettering, story, artwork. Golden, silver, & modern age.

 

George Perez, Adam Hughes, John Byrne, Gail Simone, Gene Colan, Greg Rucka, Phil Jimenez, Terry Dodson, J. Michael Straczynski..Damn, yeah, not a single decent writer or artist in there.

 

 

 

THE FLASH

 

-uninteresting powers: really fast (talking, thinking, moving)-really boring. can go through walls—I guess that's good for sneaking around, but why does he need to sneak around other than to rescue someone? Time travel, well just go catch the bad guys while they're taking a ****, why don't you?

 

So first he's a one-trick pony, now he has multiple abilities he uses. Which is it? And why exactly are they lame? You may as well say Wolverine is boring because all he does is heal fast or Hulk is because he's just really strong.

 

-bad father-let his kid die of pneumonia

 

Wally's kids are both alive. Barry's (if they still exist) are in the future.

 

 

 

GREEN LANTERN

 

-anybody can be one with a magic ring.

 

No, they can't. Only those with a strong enough will can use it, although originally anyone could. Just having one didn't mean you could use it well, either. That's why they were chosen.

 

-what's the mission? Team Lantern Universal Police?

 

Whatever needs doing. They're basically cops on a galactic scale.

 

-magic ring-no limit. BORING. It's like crouching and mashing the kick button.

 

It's limited by the imagination and will of the user. It also runs out of power eventually, either by excessive use or after about a day unless they recharge it.

 

-random laws. BS from the blue yodas.

 

What's random about their laws?

 

-random guardians like mutants in X3.

 

They're not mutants and I don't know why one would categorize them as "random".

 

-John Stewart-indecisive and weak willed.

 

He just killed Mogo, the planet sized Lantern that provides the rings, because it was giving out rings randomly to beings who were all mind controlled and killing anyone in their path. No one else was willing to do this. Doesn't sound weak or indecisive to me.

 

-PRO: I don't HATE green lantern, I like anything in space, so I dislike green lantern the least? I just don't see him ever needing someone like batman to help.

 

Batman's utilized by the league for his knowledge more than anything else. Time and again, he's shown to be a lot smarter than most of the team.

 

just because you like something, doesn't mean i have to. and my reason doesn't have to be a thesis.

the same as just because i don't like something, doesn't mean you can't like it.

 

I never said anything about you liking it. The discussion was why you find them dull and apparently it's because you don't really know much at all about them.

[Darth Krawlie]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/000/346/969638-cool_story__bro_super.jpg?1244744838

 

Anyway, like I said in the Captain America thread, we didn't get the Avengers teaser at the press screening I was at tonight, even though the studio reps hinted we would. I'm sure it'll be online at some point over the weekend, assuming I don't see it aired at Comic Con somewhere.

[danger]

[Tank]

Wow... Dom is doing a full on George Lucas prequel apologist thing here... Why dont you jerks talk about the avengers

[Jason Solo]

End of story from a DC fanboy: WB can't make movies worth a **** outside of Batman anymore, so I hope JLA never gets made because of its 99.9% suckage likelihood.

 

With that out the way, as I've said before as down as I've been on the Avengers idea in the past, they've done a good job crafting the lone movies in its self-contained universe in a way that makes the idea of seeing it all come together kinda appealing, despite me just not being that into the characters. The wild-card is Whedon though. I'm a fan, but at the same time, the guy's not exactly known as sure thing box office gold or longer-than-half-a-season tv shows.

[danger]

this is all jason's fault.

[Guest bodega]

STUPIDMAN

 

-too many powers/indestructible. How does he ever have an interesting conflict? He's super everything. He can even make the world reverse rotation and turn back time if he does make a mistake. Give him a foe he can't beat, and all he has to do is try harder. BORING

 

Easy. He fights villains on his level. Darskseid, Doomsday, Bizarro, Parasite, Zod, Kryptonite Man, Metallo, Mister Mxyzptlk, Brainiac, etc. All of them can do physical harm to him and only two from that list use Kryptonite. Luthor can match him because formerly, he was a super-genius who would come up with ways of killing Superman and later he was a corporate scientist who did the same but hid behind the law so no one could legally touch him.

 

-kryptonite. The only time he is ever in danger. WE know a hero probably won't die, but the hero doesn't usually know that. Since superman is indestructible, he acts with no restraint or forethought and just flies fists first into any conflict. BORING.

 

Incorrect. Superman can be harmed by beings who match him in strength. Also, any character who uses magic can hurt him, as he has no defense against it.

 

-incorruptible. anyone who breaks the law is bad. SIMPLISTIC

 

If you're robbing a bank/killing someone/causing mass destruction, yeah, he'll take them down. That describes pretty much every super-hero out there, however. He will look the other way for those who operate by other methods, like Batman.

 

-the only unique thing about superman is what BILL said in Kill Bill vol. 2.

 

Bill didn't even know what the hell he was talking about. He acts that way to throw people off. No one's going to expect the office goofball to be someone like Superman. Besides, Bill's speech would be more fitting a character like Thor. Sure, he had a human identity, but that wasn't who he was. He was born Thor, he's always Thor.

 

 

 

WONDER WOMAN

 

-just a female superman with a douche for a boyfriend.

 

What boyfriend? The last time she was paired with Steve Trevor was twenty-five years ago. She's briefly dated a couple other guys since then, but no one regular.

 

-indestructible golden lasso of truth. Top five dumbest weapons ever.

 

Tell that to Indiana Jones. You're also forgetting her bracelets, tiara, and various swords and shields she's used.

 

-invisible plane. It can fly itself! Okay, I also don't like how batman's car can drive itself either, or do I like how ANY superhero has access to aircraft. But wonder woman's flying plane breaks all law of aerodynamics. Also every origin of the invisible plane is stupid.

 

What's wrong with a plane that can fly itself? Marvel has a character that can fly by throwing his hammer really fast.

 

-sans invisible plane…now she can fly.

 

Yup.

 

-unmemorable enemies. Most of them don't have superpowers.

 

Actually, most of them do. But no, they're not that memorable.

 

-unmemorable stories. I really can't think of ANY.

 

You'd probably have to read some first. I've found a lot of the early stuff to be memorable, but for different reasons. The Perez run was pretty good, as were the Jimenez, Rucka and Simone runs.

 

-lousy comic: lettering, story, artwork. Golden, silver, & modern age.

 

George Perez, Adam Hughes, John Byrne, Gail Simone, Gene Colan, Greg Rucka, Phil Jimenez, Terry Dodson, J. Michael Straczynski..Damn, yeah, not a single decent writer or artist in there.

 

 

 

THE FLASH

 

-uninteresting powers: really fast (talking, thinking, moving)-really boring. can go through walls—I guess that's good for sneaking around, but why does he need to sneak around other than to rescue someone? Time travel, well just go catch the bad guys while they're taking a ****, why don't you?

 

So first he's a one-trick pony, now he has multiple abilities he uses. Which is it? And why exactly are they lame? You may as well say Wolverine is boring because all he does is heal fast or Hulk is because he's just really strong.

 

-bad father-let his kid die of pneumonia

 

Wally's kids are both alive. Barry's (if they still exist) are in the future.

 

 

 

GREEN LANTERN

 

-anybody can be one with a magic ring.

 

No, they can't. Only those with a strong enough will can use it, although originally anyone could. Just having one didn't mean you could use it well, either. That's why they were chosen.

 

-what's the mission? Team Lantern Universal Police?

 

Whatever needs doing. They're basically cops on a galactic scale.

 

-magic ring-no limit. BORING. It's like crouching and mashing the kick button.

 

It's limited by the imagination and will of the user. It also runs out of power eventually, either by excessive use or after about a day unless they recharge it.

 

-random laws. BS from the blue yodas.

 

What's random about their laws?

 

-random guardians like mutants in X3.

 

They're not mutants and I don't know why one would categorize them as "random".

 

-John Stewart-indecisive and weak willed.

 

He just killed Mogo, the planet sized Lantern that provides the rings, because it was giving out rings randomly to beings who were all mind controlled and killing anyone in their path. No one else was willing to do this. Doesn't sound weak or indecisive to me.

 

-PRO: I don't HATE green lantern, I like anything in space, so I dislike green lantern the least? I just don't see him ever needing someone like batman to help.

 

Batman's utilized by the league for his knowledge more than anything else. Time and again, he's shown to be a lot smarter than most of the team.

 

just because you like something, doesn't mean i have to. and my reason doesn't have to be a thesis.

the same as just because i don't like something, doesn't mean you can't like it.

 

I never said anything about you liking it. The discussion was why you find them dull and apparently it's because you don't really know much at all about them.

 

+ ****in' 1 for you Dom

[Dom]

Wow... Dom is doing a full on George Lucas prequel apologist thing here... Why dont you jerks talk about the avengers

 

 

I like educating the ignorant.

[Copper]

you guys are all retarded.

 

 

but I'm mega looking forward to this movie and I want a goddamn trailer already WHEDON.

[Cerina]

End of story from a DC fanboy: WB can't make movies worth a **** outside of Batman anymore, so I hope JLA never gets made because of its 99.9% suckage likelihood.

 

With that out the way, as I've said before as down as I've been on the Avengers idea in the past, they've done a good job crafting the lone movies in its self-contained universe in a way that makes the idea of seeing it all come together kinda appealing, despite me just not being that into the characters. The wild-card is Whedon though. I'm a fan, but at the same time, the guy's not exactly known as sure thing box office gold or longer-than-half-a-season tv shows.

 

I'd go see this movie for his Astonishing run alone...but I think his skills as a director have yet to be really tested. Then again...how can this movie be bad??

 

you guys are all retarded.

 

 

but I'm mega looking forward to this movie and I want a goddamn trailer already WHEDON.

 

Doesn't open for another 9 months, patience.

[Guest bodega]

I like educating the ignorant.