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Marvel's The Avengers


Wally Q
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This is a nitpick, and I'm hoping somebody can explain it, but after seeing the whole thing and looking back, was Loki's plan to get captured just to trigger Banner into becoming the Hulk and distract them from what Hawkeye and Selvig had to do? That seems like a really convoluted way to go about things.

I think it's along those lines. Maybe not so much distract as disrupt. He seems to get off having chaos around him. Especially all that going down within the heart of SHIELD. That plan would've worked completely had it not been for that pesky human element.

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Just got back from watching this, and I thought it was great. Hulk smashing Loki around was my favorite part. Couple of things though:

 

Did anyone else notice that when those alien soldiers were flying around New York City, sometimes it sounded like pod racers? I noticed ILM did some of the effects. I wonder if they reused those sounds.

 

Maybe because of that, I already had The Phantom Menace in my mind, and the end part reminded me of it as well. They blow up the control ship and all the alien soliders drop down to the ground. I was waiting for Jar Jar Binks to come out and say "They all broken...hooraaaaaaaaaay!!!!" :D

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This is now my favorite super-hero movie. So many damn good moments in this, I have trouble picking one. I'd probably put the Thor/Hulk fight up there, as I've been waiting forever to see a live-action big budget fight between these two.

And I geeked the *** out when

 

 

Thanos

 

 

turned and smiled. I've been avoiding spoilers, so I had no idea he would have an appearance in this.

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I don't want to be backed into the corner as a naysayer...

 

No harm, no foul, IMHO. You might appreciate this quote from the end of Roger Ebert's lukewarm review:

 

"Comic-Con nerds will have multiple orgasms," predicts critic David Edelstein in New York magazine, confirming something I had vaguely suspected about them. If he is correct, it's time for desperately needed movies to re-educate nerds in the joys of sex.

 

The old chestnut about it's-funny-'cause-nerds-are-sexless is ancient and tired, but you get the idea.

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That's horse crap. So the fanbase the movie was intended for is delighted, which means the movie did it's job, but that's still not good enough for Roger? Now he looks down what's left of his nose to judge us and demands we have better taste? **** him. That's not a critic's job, a critic's job is to convey how well a movie accomplished its goal of entertaining its intended demographic.

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That's horse crap. So the fanbase the movie was intended for is delighted, which means the movie did it's job, but that's still not good enough for Roger? Now he looks down what's left of his nose to judge us and demands we have better taste? **** him. That's not a critic's job, a critic's job is to convey how well a movie accomplished its goal of entertaining its intended demographic.

 

 

 

That's not a critic's job, a critic's job is to convey how well a movie accomplished its goal of entertaining its intended demographic.

 

What? Hit hit the brakes for a second. His job is not about how the so-called demographic was entertained alone, but about how HE percieves the film and how it may or may not appeal to many--not a few. Make no mistake, he knows for films like The Avengers, Paramount/Marvel was not just targeting teens and 20-something males, or Marvel comic book fans (the latter a minority among film audiences anyway). Studios want genre films to have major, across the board appeal. IOW, they want Nolan's Batman appeal, which reached far more than a certain age or source interest, hence the historic box-office returns. If Ebert has a defined job at all, it was that, because he knows a film of this kind has to please as many as possible. So, if Ebert believed The Avengers failed in that basic task, and in the end will only please the "Comic Con" types, then so be it, but he's not an ***hole because he's not selling the pleasure of a few as the pleasure of all.

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I disagree. I don't personally like romantic comedies, but if I'm a paid critic and I review them I have to review it for how well it services people who are fans of the genre. That's the critic's job, not to review the movie for mofos like me who aren't fans of the genre.

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I liked it too, but I'm not ready to contribute to the overhype machine too much.

 

It's an excellent ensemble movie as advertised, everybody gets in a cool hero moment and at least a few hilarious lines. The script itself is awesome. I've never been a big believer in the Wheadonverse, but I am now. I didn't care for how slowly everything seemed to move in the middle acts though, I was really ready to get off of that stupid helicarrier. But everything is forgiven once they finally land in New York.

 

What did work for me really well is how this didn't really feel like a movie at all. It really felt as if it were a comic book event like Civil War or Secret Invasion really happening on screen. The pace, smart-ass humor, action, and character moments really made it feel like this was the first "real" comic book movie I'd ever seen. It didn't even feel like it was an Avengers movie, it was if we get to spend two whole hours seeing the best of the Marvel universe and spending time with those characters.

 

Here's two problems that brings about though: First, his was such a good Marvel movie featuring their whole character stable, I now have no interest whatsoever in standalone character movies. Second, those stupid rights deals that Marvel made that sold Spider-man to Sony and the X-Men to Fox are really going to hold this back now. Sure, they can make it bigger by bringing in a bigger bad like Thanos, but what I really want to see is Spider-man in the Avengers like he should be. It's just always going to feel handcuffed without him.

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It's funny to me that as recently as the 90s no one even knew who the Avengers were. Plus, the fact some of us want Spider-man and Wolverine on the team and that is a pretty recent thing. The Avengers have been around since the 60s but it wasn't until brain Michael Bendis looked at the Justice League and said -- hey, the JL is made up of DCs a-listers, why don't we do the same? It was 2004s New Avengers that added apidey and Wolverine to the team.

 

DC and WB should be kicking themselves. They've had name brand recognition with their heroes since the 30s and Marvel got by on Hulk and Spider-Man for eons. Now DC/WB can't get a decent movie out for anyone other than Batman and Marvel's team of b-listers are set to be one of the highest grossing films ever.

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Well there's also the fact that (check out this can of worms I'm opening) that Marvel's characters are far more human and relatable to the average audience because their weaknesses are based on character flaws, not glowing rocks from space.

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Well there's also the fact that (check out this can of worms I'm opening) that Marvel's characters are far more human and relatable to the average audience because their weaknesses are based on character flaws, not glowing rocks from space.

Except for Batman, which is why I'm guessing his character does so commercially well.

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I disagree. I don't personally like romantic comedies, but if I'm a paid critic and I review them I have to review it for how well it services people who are fans of the genre. That's the critic's job, not to review the movie for mofos like me who aren't fans of the genre.

 

Superhero films are not romatic comedies--which are produced to cater to a fairly isolated fanbase. Since widespread studio push to produce big ticket superhero films in the last decade, this genre has become the new mainstream--much like the 70s/80s films of Lucas and Spielberg made science-fiction and fantasy the then-mainstream, which means the target audience is the average person--not the sub-culture, or niche. The success of Raimi's Spider-Man (ex.$821,708,551 for the 1st film--and that's a full decade ago) and Nolan's Batman (ex.$1,001,921,825 for the sequel) to name just two in this genre, happened due to that greater appeal. Critics understand this (well, the bright members of that bunch), so if Ebert believed Avengers is--at best--a geek wank-off-a-thon, read between the lines and he's saying the content has not successfully communicated to the mainstream audience in terms of potential. Even with the money earned this weekend, the film could--arguably--earn more by reaching all of those untapped average people that the biggest superhero films managed to do .

 

Average people talked about the Nolan Bat-films--people with no background in superhero comics, no geek background, no cons, none of it--just regular people. That is the hallmark of the new mainstream.

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Well there's also the fact that (check out this can of worms I'm opening) that Marvel's characters are far more human and relatable to the average audience because their weaknesses are based on character flaws, not glowing rocks from space.

 

Not a can of worms. This is just a fact. Always has been. That's why Smallville was doing so well for so long. They humanized the character in a way that's never been done before.

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Other stray observations I wanted to point out. There are some observational spoilers involved, but I don't think there's anyone who hasn't seen the movie at this point anyways.

 

-I love how this version of Tony Stark is able to be expanded this time around. He still follows the same character arc from going to self obsessed douchebag to humanized hero, but his relationships with the rest of the team round him out far more than the two Iron Man movies did. Him geeking out with Banner in the lab was an awesome dynamic that makes total sense. (Plus, the little moment where he hacks into the loudspeakers to play ACDC was so badass.)

 

-Black Widow and Agent Coulson were effectively retconned here, which fixed a lot of the problems that Iron Man 2 introduced to the franchise. Both of them became actual characters instead of vehicles for exposition.

 

-Wheadon is I think the only person who could have done a good job at humanizing each of the team in some way and using their flaws and shortcomings to the advantage of the movie. For example, Captain America doesn't have superpowers or insane technology, so he's somewhat disadvantaged from the rest of the group. There's even a short bit of dialogue where he admits that he's tired and hurting. Instead, he uses his military background to be able to direct the rest of the team logistically.

 

-The news clips getting reactions from everyone in New York was so awesome, I would have loved to seen more of that. I liked the people mimicking real life who are wearing t-shirts and getting tattoos, that's just putting fuel to the fanboy fire and I'm sure selling tons of tie-in merchandise. But on the other hand, there were powers that be who questioned the superheroes which was awesome set up material for Civil War if they ever want to go that route. And I absolutely adored the lady who said that Captain America saved her.

 

-The guy that plays Loki looks just like Pete Campbell from Mad Men. After I pointed that out to my wife, she couldn't stop giggling.

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Speaking of that lady, this feels like setting up something in the future. That character was highlighted in several crowd shots to the point I noticed her before anything happened to her. Then he saves her. Then they make a point of her saying something to the camera to this effect.

 

Future Captain America Love Interest, is that you?

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Loved it. Lots of great moments. Well balanced. Definitely my favorite Iron Man and Hulk movie, I think they work much better in a group dynamic, or part of some larger story than just their own. My only nitpicks are that I didn't really understand what Loki was trying to do on the SHIELD helicarrier, and... where was War Machine during all this? Yeah, I know.

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Guest El Chalupacabra

Well there's also the fact that (check out this can of worms I'm opening) that Marvel's characters are far more human and relatable to the average audience because their weaknesses are based on character flaws, not glowing rocks from space.

Then you better hope they don't have Sentry in Avengers 2! :lol:

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