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Marvel's The Avengers


Wally Q
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I truly believe it's just because the DC films haven't been good enough to make you care (except for Batman)

i think i know why i think they're boring. i cared about batman before sir christopher nolan waltzed in.

i don't need a film to make me care about a superhero/comic, dude.

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i like how torch can tell me what to think with a smile...three times in a row.

i'm sorry i think the justice league is boring, and batman is better off without them.

and i sorry for praising marvel and waiting the past five years on edge for an avengers movie.

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I didn't tell you what to think. I said I think Nolan could have made you care. I think he's talented enough to do that. It's why I am frustrated he doesn't seem to care about the bigger picture of what Batman is, instead focusing on a piece of him.

 

Come on now. There is a major difference between that and telling you what to think and a major difference between that and saying Nolan shouldn't be allowed to do his thing.

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You know what that really pisses me off. We were having a discussion here and you just had to douche it all up. **** you. I never told you how to think. We were dialoging. You detailed points, then me. We bounced off each other and conversation was flowing. **** you. Being someone as you detailed me to be goes against everything I am. You gotta lay that **** on here that's ****ing bull.

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he mad. am i crazy, or does torch keep insiting that the reason i don't like wonder woman, the flash, green lantern, or superman is because i need nolan or a noncrappy dc movie to make me care? i get my info from more than just movies.

 

FINE TORCH, LET'S MAKE LEX LUTHOR PRESIDENT WHILE WE'RE AT IT.

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You proposed that the Avengers had a better set of characters than the JLA. We're all different peeps. I do not care about your opinion being varied from mine, nor do I debate such things. Now this question posed by you was in the context of Avengers films being made and JLA not being made. So in the spirit of conversation I offered that maybe the DC movies just haven't done it for you, and that perhaps due to what I dubbed as an elitist stink about the more fanatasic/geeky elements of comics coming from the powers that be at the WB that could also be a contributing factor as to why Marvel's team up film is accepted over the idea of a DC one.

 

You explained you just don't like the DC characters except for Batman. I acknowledge this while proposing that perhaps if Nolan had desired to make a JLA possible he could have made you care a about them.

 

You see what that means isn't that I'm telling you what to think, but rather that a particular creative person might be able to craft a story with those characters to which you would find enjoyable. Just as you then admit Frank Miller crafted a tale with Superman and Batman that you liked. Just as in, if I recall correctly, Tank who dislikes Superman found himself enjoying Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman.

 

I am flabbergasted that I have to explain this as I am well aware that you are not an idiot. And yet here you feign ignorance and deliver passive aggressive sucker punches. So what is the deal? Complete misunderstanding to which you then decided to press some buttons? Or was it all bait and I took it? Or are you actually that unable to follow a conversation in which you and I are the only participants?

 

I'm at a loss here.

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I'd argue that part of the reason why Marvel is mopping the floor with DC in the movie department could be that Marvel's characters are easier to translate into film than DC, who only really has Superman and Batman who could work on the big screen.

 

No insult intended against DC or their characters, but they just don't seem as easy to condense down into a movie successfully and believably.

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I'd argue that part of the reason why Marvel is mopping the floor with DC in the movie department could be that Marvel's characters are easier to translate into film than DC, who only really has Superman and Batman who could work on the big screen.

 

No insult intended against DC or their characters, but they just don't seem as easy to condense down into a movie successfully and believably.

 

 

Sure they do.

 

Guy comes from another planet - has powers under yeliow sun.

Guy gets magic ring - can create any construct he can imagine.

Guy gets bathed in chemicals and struck by lightning simultaneously - gets super speed.

Girl comes from hidden island of Amazons - comes to "man's world" to learn more about it...and kick ass.

Guy has a human dad and Altantean mom - can breathe underwater and talk to fish.

 

They're really not that complicated or any more unbelievable than someone getting huge and muscular after getting gamma bombed or coming from a mystical realm full of mythical figures and wielding a hammer that lets you fly.

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I don't think the disparate quality has anything to do with the intrinsic worth of the characters on either side of the Marvel/DC two-party superhero system**. IMHO the fault lies more with the movie studio execs who ultimately decide what they think a super-hero film should look like. Some execs welcome input from actual comic-book writers and editors. Others, not so much. I think the results have borne that out. That's not just in the failures on the DC side, but in Marvel's own multiple failures as well -- cf. X-Men 3, Spider-Man 3, and both FF films, all of which reek to me of high-level simpleminded corporate meddling.

 

DC and WB should be eternally grateful that someone of Nolan's caliber just so happened to find something of aesthetic use in one of their longtime intellectual properties, but that's more to his credit than to theirs. Anyone who thinks his two films ruled just because the Batman cast is awesome and bulletproof has too soon forgotten Joel Schumacher's corporate-approved two-hour toy commercial.

 

If DC had as much pull with their Warner Bros. film adaptations as JK Rowling has had with hers, we'd be up to about Superman 9 by now. It's only within the last 18-24 months that the various divisions within the WB have been directed from on high to stop shunning each other and play nice. I look forward to seeing improved results in future endeavors, but the regrettably lukewarm reactions to the most recent DC film indicate the synergy's not quite where it needs to be yet.

 

[** A largely circumstantial us-vs.-them divide that's about as unimportant and as dreadfully dull to discuss as the ostensibly great Democrat/Republican divide, but that's just me.]

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One thing which is being overlooked in that too, Six, is the issue of creative control. DC has to hand creative control over their films to some other branch of Warner, who don't understand the source material or just see it as a 2 hour merchandising vehicle.

 

Marvel has creative control of all their films since Iron Man, which gives Marvel itself power of the direction of the film.

 

That could contribute too.

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To me DC by far has the best characters (frankly I think only Spider-Man and some of the X-Men can touch DC's classics). But, their movies just for the most part blow. Marvel is infinitely better at bringing their less iconic characters to screen. I know its a business, and all about making the big bucks, but I'd be more than happy with just the comics and DC's animation department, which rocks.

 

In any case, I'm still very skeptical of a team movie though, despite the obvious planning that's gone into this. But I give them credit for building up toward this, and maybe it'll surprise me.

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last try...

 

I am flabbergasted that I have to explain this as I am well aware that you are not an idiot. And yet here you feign ignorance and deliver passive aggressive sucker punches. So what is the deal? Complete misunderstanding to which you then decided to press some buttons? Or was it all bait and I took it? Or are you actually that unable to follow a conversation in which you and I are the only participants?

 

I'm at a loss here.

try to understand i think batman is cool. i don't think the rest of the justice league main characters are that cool. to me, wonder woman is really goofy. superman is always the same story, though i liked the comics after he dies and new supermen came around (also i kinda enjoyed superman returns, but i only saw it once in theaters, but keep that a secret.) chip told me every damn thing about green lantern, LOST, and heroes...and i still don't care about any of them. and flash, i don't care WHAT story there is, it's always going to be solved by him running fast.

 

I think the DC movies just haven't made you care.

I'm confident that if Nolan had desired to build a Justice League project he could have made even you care about those characters.

if he had desired to create that project, he'd have made you care.

I truly believe it's just because the DC films haven't been good enough to make you care (except for Batman).

you're kinda pushy, here. the first time, you didn't say anything about story. after that, you were saying if nolan wrote and directed a justice league movie, i would probably like it DESPITE me constantly saying i think all the main characters are boring. christopher nolan could write the most groundbreaking barbie movie, but i still wouldn't be intersted. to me, the justice league is SILLY, even the name. the avengers is cooler. despite all that, i do prefer the DC universe. just. not. the. justice. league. K?

 

You know what that really pisses me off. We were having a discussion here and you just had to douche it all up. **** you. I never told you how to think. We were dialoging. You detailed points, then me. We bounced off each other and conversation was flowing. **** you. Being someone as you detailed me to be goes against everything I am. You gotta lay that **** on here that's ****ing bull.

and this was really unprovoked...and ironic. be a dude, not a dick.

 

back on topic,

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS MOVIE!

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I think what's not clear is why you find them boring or silly in comparison. I personally don't find Superman any less interesting than Thor or Captain America and I don't see Wonder Woman's look to be any goofier than Ms. Marvel or Scarlet Witch's.

Besides, if you want to talk goofy when discussing Avengers, one need look no further than Triathlon.

I'm not sure what you mean by Superman always being the same story. That's true across the board. Most super-hero comics cover the same ground periodically. Most movies do, as well.

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They're really not that complicated or any more unbelievable than someone getting huge and muscular after getting gamma bombed or coming from a mystical realm full of mythical figures and wielding a hammer that lets you fly.

 

Well posted.

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