Pong Messiah Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 You think Clyde Drexler was better than Kobe Bryant?well, he was taller, stronger, had bigger hands, was a better passer, a better rebounder, a better leaper (before knee surgery in '92), had a higher FG% despite his horrible shot selection, etc... But Bryant is more focused and driven than Drexler ever was, is a much better defender (when he wants to be, anyway), is more consistent, a better shooter, more skilled, a better FT shooter, is better going to his left, probably (?) has a higher basketball IQ, oh -- and there's that little thing about Kobe leading his team to the championship. Drexler arguably had a better supporting cast in '91 and '92 than Kobe, and couldn't get over the hump, Kobe did. Case closed. And this is coming from one of the biggest Portland homers/Laker haters out there. I like Drexler a hell of a lot better than Kobe Bryant. I think he's a great guy, whereas Kobe's a douche. And I'd happily argue that he was blessed with even more natural talent and athleticism -- but the dude never refined his game to Kobe's level. There's no serious comparison to be made. Hell, I'd argue that Brandon Roy (who is certainly no all-time top-20 player!) is already better than Drexler from an all-around player/basketball IQ standpoint. Jordan > Bryant > Roy >= Drexler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Irish Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 I'm an unabashed Kobe hater, and I even struggled putting him on the list. I don't deny that he's got great numbers, but I do not agree with how he got them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 I'm an unabashed Kobe hater, and I even struggled putting him on the list. I don't deny that he's got great numbers, but I do not agree with how he got them. What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Irish Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Selfish play. I finally looked at some of the other lists, I can't believe I forgot Baylor and Robertson. I knew there a Knick I wasn't thinking about. I also left Ewing off as well. It's tough to do with only 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 The selfish play/poor teammate knocks on Kobe are so overblown, in my opinion. He won 3 titles in a row playing second fiddle to Shaq, the Lakers were abysmal for several seasons where he played with less talent than I do on a pick-up court, made 2 other Finals and won one of them as the guy. His shot numbers and assists imply that he's actually more selfish now than he was a few years ago when people repeatedly knocked him for that- yet he won a Championship. With regards to being a poor teammate and forcing Shaq out of town- that has to be reviewed in a different light nowadays. Shaq leaving teams on bad terms and being unable to coexist and play second fiddle himself has become more than a trend- only at this point in his career does he seem content for that role. So in my book, Kobe gets a bit of a pass with that mess. Plus Irish, you've got an all-time selfish me, me guy at number 3 in your list so it is what it is. 1. MJ2. Russell 3. Kareem4. Magic5. Larry6. Wilt7. Duncan8. Robertson9. West10. Hakeem11. Shaq12. Malone13. Havilecek14. Baylor15. Bryant16. Dr. J17. Malone18. Barkley19. Isaiah Thomas20. Scotty Pippen Next group: Cousy, KG, Stockton, Walton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 One thing I hate is Karl Malone being ranked over Ewing. I can promise you this, if Ewing had ever played with a player liek JOhn Stockton he would have won a Championship. Hell if Ewing had a player like Hornacek he woulda won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Lohr Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I would like to nominate PJza for being the biggest Homer on Nightly. Ever.I think Pharoah simply misunderstood the topic. He thought it said "Top 20 Pistons Ever". As for Pippen, yes he did put up nice numbers during Jordan's two year break. However, let's not forget that the team won an average of 11 games more the two seasons prior or that the year he came back, their win total jumped up by an amazing 25 games. Most importantly, however, all three of those Jordan-led seasons resulted in championships, while the two Pippen-led seasons resulted in second round losses. Also the notion that he did all of the little things so Jordan could just score is far from accurate. Jordan had virtually the same numbers in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks when they were together. I'd say they helped each other, but there's no question who really made that team dangerous. Nobody had to come up with "The Pippen Rules" if they wanted to defeat Chicago. He was a very good player, but not a dominant player. I'm not sure I'd even put him in the top ten of his era, what's more the top twenty all-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 He was a very good player, but not a dominant player. I'm not sure I'd even put him in the top ten of his era, what's more the top twenty all-time.If we're only talking offense, I agree with you. Pippen was a good scorer -- excellent when his shot was falling -- but not terrifying by any stretch of the imagination. Like you said: there were no Pippen Rules. He was probably a shade under Michael Redd or Ray Allen. But the guy was arguably the best defensive wing, like, ever to play the game. Ever. That, in and of itself, should make him a shoo-in for top twenty. And the fact that he was able to make Utah's offense look so ****ing incompetent during the NBA Finals (remember, they were the tightest, most disciplined offense in the league at the time)... well, I'd argue that that makes him 10-15 material. Offense... nah. But he was an incredibly dominant player on the defensive end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primbud Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 No one's mentioned Wes Unseld so I'd like to toss him in for possible consideration.Also, Nate Thurmond and Dave Cowens. & Rick Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groove terminator Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 maybe we should compile a list of say 50 players and put this to an overall votethen discuss said findings? thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 I was thinking of how this list may look now about 5 years later, mainly considering what Lebron accomplished since 2010 and Duncans continued excellence. Plus just some changing perspective. Without looking at the old list, here is my current list 1-Michael Jordan2-Bill Russell3-Wilt Chamberlain4-Lebron James5-Oscar Robertson6-Kareem Abdul Jabbar7-Magic Johnson8-Tim Duncan9-Larry Bird10-Kobe Bryant11-Jerry West12-Shaquille O'Neal13-Moses Malone14-Hakeem Olajuwon15-John Havlicek16-Julius Erving17-Isiah Thomas18-George Mikan19-Elgin Baylor20-Bob Petit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Lohr Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 No "Buddha" Edwards? No Spencer Dinwiddie?!? Pharoah's not going to like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Haha I loved Edwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoah JZA Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Pfft. No Andre Drummond? No KCP? No Fennis Dembo? WTF?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Lohr Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Remember this, Jeff? In no particular order. They're all great.Isiah ThomasJoe DumarsDave BingBob LanierVinnie JohnsonBill LaimbeerRick MahornChauncey BillupsBen WallaceKelly TripuckaJohn LongJames "Buddha" EdwardsRip HamiltonAdrian DantleyJohn SalleyDennis "Rodzilla" RodmanDave DeBusschereRasheed WallaceTayshaun PrinceRay ScottAll Time Coach: Chuck "Daddy Rich" Daly I get that it's a homer-ific list, but what I find odd is one rather glaring exclusion. I loved the Bad Boys. They're what got me back into basketball after a few years of losing interest. But how can you have a Piston-centric list with guys like Buddha, Mahorn, and Spider, but not include this guy?!? http://bloguin.com/hoopsmanifesto/wp-content/uploads/sites/130/2010/08/grant-hill-pistons-dunk.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoah JZA Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Ah yes, a fine list. As true today as it was when I posted. Hill got an honorable mention, but he played during the dark days of the Pistons...you know...the 90s. So it was either him or Tripucka lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 God those we're terrible uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoah JZA Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Yeah, I never liked that bright blue/aqua phase they went thru. Bad uniforms, bad teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Irish Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 JZA, shouldn't we throw Darko Milicic on there while we're at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoah JZA Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 See now that was just mean! Im trying to forget that horrible day but it just keeps coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Irish Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 It's also the 10th anniversary of the Spurs-Pistons finals. Wonder if I should go digging for old threads? GO SPURS GO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharoah JZA Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Theres a guy I work with, he was sooooo pissed that Pop and LB were friends and went out to dinner and all that shit lol. He still bitches about that to this day, says its the reason the Pistons lost and everything. Because of dinner lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Irish Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 He could be right. Pop's an evil genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamevet Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 It's a shame that Dirk get's overlooked, even though he is now in the top 10 of all-time scorers, and recently passed Moses Malone to land the #7 spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Dirk is a great player, but he's not among the 20 best. He passed Moses in scoring but Moses is also probably the greatest offensive rebounder of all time and a great defender. Dirk is neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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