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Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (spoilers)


638 replies to this topic

#26
The Choc

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Yeah...originally Harry was told that Voldy split his soul into seven pieces, so there were six horcuxes; later on he found out that he was also a horcrux that Voldy had not intended to make.

Another dumb question for you. Voldy split his soul so that if he was ever killed, he could re-take human form using one of his pieces of his soul from a horcrux. When he tried to kill Harry, the spell bounced off and killed that piece of the soul. So he still had six horcruxes plus one more in Harry. What horcrux did he use to retake human form in Goblet of Fire? The diary was already destroyed as was the ring. So how did he reanimate?



He didn't use any, thats not exactly how it works. Had he not had the horcruxes he would have died with no way to come back after the encounter in Godrics Hollow. The horcruxes tie your soul to earth but you don't actually go around and get that specific piece of the soul from an indivual horcrux to come back.

#27
Thomas Alan

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No, Voldy was always himself. He survived his encounter with infant Harry. Though he says it stung like the dickens.

#28
The Choc

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No, Voldy was always himself. He survived his encounter with infant Harry. Though he says it stung like the dickens.



He wouldnt have survived it not for the Horcruxes though.

#29
Thomas Alan

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Yes, I know.

#30
UK Legend Killa

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Think of it like a shield with a number of generators. Each horcrux has to be destroyed before the shield is lowered Voldy himself can be killed, any other attempts on his life just cause him to revert to a lower form. It was his own spell that rebounded and was so powerful to cause him to be near death.

The resurrection in GOF had nothing to do with Horcruxes (that I know of anyhow)

#31
Undome Telcontar

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he was never near death, since he already had several horcruxes when he killed james and lily.

no, voldemort had already created himself a body for that fragment of soul to reside in. although it does have an impact on the penultimate harry-voldemort confrontation.

#32
UK Legend Killa

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By near death I meant weak as **** and unable to do much else but hide

#33
Wald

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Oh, ok. I just thought he split his soul so that in case the body he was in died (and the soul with it), he'd just have to take another piece of soul and get another body for it. But I see now that the souls being split and hidden just basically keep him tied to earth.

#34
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Yeah thats how I saw it at first, because of the poor way it was explained mainly, but when you think about it he wouldn't be immortal in that case, just have more lives.

#35
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well, to a certain extent. i don't quite understand what happened when his killing curse backfired, though. the rebounding curse should have killed that body and that piece of soul (as it did at the end of deathly hallows), and he would have had to wait until someone found another horcrux, and used them. but instead the body died and the soul fragmented; one part went into harry, and one part fled to albania. it not consistent. :confused:


ah, but he wasn't immortal; "i, who have gone further than anybody down the path that leads to immortality." lots of lives, but not immortal. he would have had to have figured out how to keep each body alive for as long as possible once he'd got harry out of the way. obviously, he never got the chance.

#36
UK Legend Killa

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Yeah we're gonna have to agree nobody has a ****ing clue what actually happened. :lol:

Ido kinda get the feeling JKR just came up with a good idea and tried to match the plot points as much as possible

#37
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yeah, same. don't quite think her "the idea popped into my head fully formed" claim is entirely true. :P

#38
Darth_Malfoy

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I always wondered why Dumbledore didn't look into the existence of those things after Harry's second year. I mean he could have gotten the ring, fake locket and datum discovered at least.

#39
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he did:

"Well, Harry," said Dumbledore, "I am sure you understood the
significance of what we just heard. At the same age as you are now, give or
take a few months, Tom Riddle was doing all he could to find out how to
make himself immortal."

"You think he succeeded then, sir?" asked Harry. "He made a Horcrux?
And that's why he didn't die when he attacked me? He had a Horcrux hidden
somewhere? A bit of his soul was safe?"

"A bit... or more," said Dumbledore. "You heard Voldemort, what he
particularly wanted from Horace was an opinion on what would happen to
the wizard who created more than one Horcrux, what would happen to the
wizard so determined to evade death that he would be prepared to murder
many times, rip his soul repeatedly, so as to store it in many, separately
concealed Horcruxes. No book would have given him that information. As far
as I know — as far, I am sure, as Voldemort knew — no wizard had ever
done more than tear his soul in two."

Dumbledore paused for a moment, marshaling his thought, and then said,
"Four years ago, I received what I considered certain proof that Voldemort
had split his soul."

"Where?" asked Harry. "How?"

"You handed it to me, Harry," said Dumbledore. "The diary, Riddles
diary, the one giving instructions on how to reopen the Chamber of Secrets."
"I don't understand, sir," said Harry.

"Well, although I did not see the Riddle who came out of the diary, what
you described to me was a phenomenon I had never wit-nessed. A mere
memory starting to act and think for itself? A mere memory, sapping the life
out of the girl into whose hands it had fallen? No, something much more
sinister had lived inside that book. ... a fragment of soul, I was almost sure of
it. The diary had been a Horcrux. But this raised as many questions as it
answered. What intrigued and alarmed me most was that that diary had been
intended as a weapon as much as a safeguard."


"Well, as you now know, for many years I have made it my business to
discover as much as I can about Voldemort's past life. I have traveled
widely, visiting those places he once knew. I stumbled across the ring
hidden in the ruin of the Gaunt’s house. It seem that once Voldemort had
succeeded in sealing a piece of his soul in side it, he did not want to wear it
anymore. He hid it, protected by many powerful enchantments, in the shack
where his ancestors had once lived (Morfin having been carted off to
Azkaban, of course), never guessing that I might one day take the trouble to
visit the ruin, or that I might be keeping an eye open for traces of magical
concealment."



#40
The Choc

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The soul in his body when he attacked Harry should not have been killed when the curse rebounded. In fact it could not have. The soul in your body is like the "main soul", the ones in the horcruxes basically tie it to earth and make it impossible for that main soul to die unless all of the horcruxes are 1st destroyed.

#41
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hmm... reading through the real version of the tom-slughorn conversation, that does make more sense:

"Well, you split your soul, you see," said Slughorn, "and hide part of it in
an object outside the body. Then, even if one's body is attacked or destroyed,
one cannot die, for part of the soul remains earthbound and undamaged. But
of course, existence in such a form ..."

Slughorn's face crumpled and Harry found himself remembering words
he had heard nearly two years before: "I was ripped from my body, I was
less than spirit, less than the meanest ghost. . . but still, I was alive."

"... few would want it, Tom, very few. Death would be preferable."


makes it sound as though your whole soul has to die, or none at all. so yeah, maybe jo has made it consistent, after all.

of course, this begs the question from the end of OotP, when harry's talking to nick. would voldemort have "gone on"? i doubt it, not if he could help it. however, i don't think he could have returned to earth as a ghost. his soul will be so damaged and weak (the flayed child) that he'll be unable to return- nor, apparently, to "go on." so it seems more likely to me that he'll spend eternity in a place between worlds, neither here nor there.

#42
Wally Q

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Nice! I'm loving the conversation the thread has brought on.

In movie news, it's OFFICIAL: Nicholas Hooper is not returning to compose Deathly Hallows

iF: After two POTTER movies, and I imagine the next two, do you hope to bring your own wealth of themes to Harry that will be as memorable as the music that started it all?

HOOPER: I have made the decision not to do the next two HARRY POTTER films. I’ll be handing the baton on to another composer. It has been a roller coaster ride, and, I feel, an enormous privilege to have the opportunity to have scored such great films and such a fantastic story.


It's looking more and more like Williams is returning. I'm very excited about this. And if it doesn't happen, then please James Newton Howard.

#43
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"Well, you split your soul, you see," said Slughorn, "and hide part of it in
an object outside the body. Then, even if one's body is attacked or destroyed,
one cannot die, for part of the soul remains earthbound and undamaged. But
of course, existence in such a form ..."



See, this is what made me think he had to use part of the soul from one of the hidden horcruxes. The body is destroyed, but another piece of soul can be used to create a new body. I mean, if the horcruxes weren't destroyed, theoretically Voldy could be killed a bunch of times and keep coming back. Hence his idea of immortality, I guess.

#44
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that's what i thought too, but not necessarily. because he says "if one's body is destroyed," and doesn't mention a soul, i'm starting to lean the other way. it's a bit vague, really. :(

i hope williams does return; he started all the musical themes, hooper added some more to work with, now's his chance to really send off the series in style.

#45
Wally Q

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Just found this article from Vanity Fair that features an interview with Years 5-7 Director, David Yates. I'm really liking the confidence that seems to be building with this talented director as the films go on but I'm slightly concerned with the aesthetics of Hallows, Pt. 1 and how he describes Pt. 2 as "back in full cinemascope." I hope that's just a figure of speech and they aren't changing aspect ratios at the end of the franchise for one half of the damn film. That's just a strange comment to make. Probably just me making assumptions.

It's funny. I'm sort of picturing Y tu mamá también as the template for the look of this picture in a way. Maybe I'm crazy.

#46
Darth Spoon

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Nice! I'm loving the conversation the thread has brought on.

In movie news, it's OFFICIAL: Nicholas Hooper is not returning to compose Deathly Hallows

iF: After two POTTER movies, and I imagine the next two, do you hope to bring your own wealth of themes to Harry that will be as memorable as the music that started it all?

HOOPER: I have made the decision not to do the next two HARRY POTTER films. I€™ll be handing the baton on to another composer. It has been a roller coaster ride, and, I feel, an enormous privilege to have the opportunity to have scored such great films and such a fantastic story.


It's looking more and more like Williams is returning. I'm very excited about this. And if it doesn't happen, then please James Newton Howard.


I wouldn't mind Howard Shore either. More for his Cronenberg-y stuff than LOTR. Not that LOTR isn't without value here.

#47
Wally Q

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I like Shore but with the exception of The Fly, I find his work for Cronenberg to be exceptional and nothing that really stands out. Same can be said for his work with Scorsese their last few collaborations. I also think by then he'll be knee deep in developing the scores for The Hobbit films so that may fill up most of his time.

#48
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According to a news blurb over at MuggleNet, David Thewlis will be shooting a Wedding scene on August 10. Bill and Fleur's or are they adding Remus and Tonks? :P

#49
Jedi Rebel

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well I read on hpana.com that the split in the move will be where the trio are captured by the snatchers. I personally think that is a bit to far in the book. I think they should end it where Ron leaves, but that is just me. If the snatchers were a bit earlier in the book I'd say fine. From what I was told, there was so much in book 7 they couldn't leave out much, thats why they have to have a 2 part movie, back to back. But if they are getting as far as the snatchersm then they are more than half-way thru the book. But again that is just me. My opinion they will half to leave a few things if they have gotten as far as the snatchers bu the end of the first book.

#50
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i reckon that's a reasonable place. it means they can end the first half on a massive cliffhanger, open the second half with them escaping and going to gringotts, and then concentrate more on the battle of hogwarts at the end, because there'll be more time.



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