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The Phantom Menace • Virtual DVD Commentary


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I think some people took the "Yoda training Ben" thing WAY too seriously. Once Qui-Gon was in the picture, I thought "Sure...Yoda mentors ALL the Jedi." That assumption turned out to be true. Plus you have the direct master to apprentice lineage of Yoda-->Dooku-->Qui-Gon-->Obi-Wan. So technically, all Obi-Wan knows does in fact come directly from Yoda, passed down from one Jedi to another give or take a few details, additions of information, and some other minor changes.

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I see what you're doing.

He was using the force to fly the damn thing whilst trying to stop it falling apart.   Noobs.

I think it's fair to say that it's inferred in Obi Wan's line in ESB that Yoda was his master, in the same way that he is Luke's.

 

It's a blatant retcon. If Yoda instructs ALL padawans, it's not really worth mentioning specifically.

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Yes but if all Ben was trying to do was sell Yoda to Luke then saying that he was the Jedi Master who instructed him is a good way to do it. You talk about inferences but you make an assumption before you have all the correct information. The fact is that Yoda was a Jedi Master and he did instruct Obi Wan. So, literally, the statement is true. Now you have all of the correct information as shown in the prequels you know exactly how that happened.

 

It's not a matter of the OT contradicting the PT. It's a matter of acceptance on your part and you're entitled to accept what you like. It's like Tank said. After watching the OT I think everyone assumed that Obi Wan was in fact mentored by Yoda. Now we know that is not the case. But that sentence does not contradict what went on before or afterward in the saga. There's both visual and audio testimony in the PT.

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The only problem is the 20 years that passed where everyone naturally assumed Yoda was Obi-Wan's Master directly, and then we're presented with something slightly different and it seems a little off. I'm fine with how it turned out personally, Obi-Wan mentions advice Yoda gave him in TPM, he seeks his advice again in Clones as well as seeing the Younglings being taught, and in Sith Yoda specifically says he has training for Obi-Wan at the end, so I think theres more than enough there for Obi-Wan to consider Yoda more than just one of the Jedi Masters but an actual mentor/teacher to him. Also ignoring EU we have no idea how longed Obi-Wan was an apprentice to Qui-Gon. And the line in ESB as it is works better than

 

Obi-Wan: There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master of the Jedi Master of the Jedi Master who instructed me.

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We now know (after seeing the PT) that Yoda must have instructed Obi Wan when he was a youngling, but I don't think the Qui Gon character was on anyones mind during the making of the original trilogy.

 

I think it's a case of Lucas throwing something new in there, purely for the sake of giving something new to the fans that they would not have guessed or expected, and by doing this he has compromised the original set up we where given, which was Yoda trains Obi Wan to Jedi Status, then they pass on their learning to Luke.

 

To have Obi Wan say 'There you will learn from the Jedi Master who instructed me', and to later say (with regards to being reckless): 'Was I any different when you taught me ?' implies literally that Yoda taught him.

 

Oh, so now we know what the script writers really meant was, Obi Wan was a reckless 5 year old, and not a young reckless man (Jedi in training) like Luke was... Bull Crap.

 

The first step in the rape of our childhood. ;)

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At the same time it's short-sighted to assume that the Jedi were trained on a 1-1 basis back in the day. The EU had already fleshed out things like the Jedi Academy. How much can you read into one sentence? It's hyper-analysis. The Jedi Temple was like a school and each of the Jedi learned from individual Masters.

 

Obi Wan spoke of Yoda as you might an old teacher whom you held in high regard. But I bet you had several teachers.

 

I'd have different thoughts if Ben had said "My Old Master".

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Again-- it's semantics. Qui-gon doesn't violate continuity as it was just one line. BUT, who here thought BEFORE the PT Obi-wan was taught by anyone other than Yoda? Again, it doesn't bother me that much... yet... JUST WAIT.

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Don't assume that anything to do with the the expanded universe has any bearing on the prequels, it is NOT canon.

 

If you want to take any of that stuff into account, go read the Marvel comics stories published in the 80's that tell very different stories of a young Obi Wan.

 

Like I said before, it was one of many ideas Lucas threw in there to give fans a new perspective. It wasn't a contradiction, it was an artistic decision that destroyed what we had all thought, and hoped to learn more about.

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As much as I like Qui-Gon I think if Obi-Wan had been alone at the start of the film, picked up Jar Jar, the Queen, R2, gone to Tatooine and found Anakin on his own then took them to Coruscant it would have made more sense. Qui-Gon is one of the best characters in the film but I think there would have been less complaints if Obi-Wan was on his own, had no Master and discovered Anakin himself.

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Qui-Gon was obviously never part of the original continuity. Yoda trained Ben. Lucas saw Schindler's List and decided he wanted Liam Neeson to portray a Jedi character in the new movies. Instead of saving Jews, he's trying to free slaves and liberate a planet. Like Schindler, he initially doesn't care about the plight of those he later attempts to save (slaves in the outer rim). He even does all that negotiating with Watto similar to Oskar and the Nazis.

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I'm just imagining Obi-Wan telling Luke, "You will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who taught me and every other Jedi under the age of 7."

 

Chaging "the" to "a" could have made all the difference!

 

Everyone knows I'm am unabashed PT lover, but Qui-Gon training Obi-Wan never bothered me. Things in ROTS bothered me way more, and that's my favorite PT movie! Ha.

 

I absolutely love the TPM soundtrack. I think it's extremely underrated.

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I absolutely love the TPM soundtrack. I think it's extremely underrated.

Agreed. It's the only one I ever ended up buying.

 

Ok, now I'm imagining Obi-Wan going into some big long sob story about how his Master was killed, so Yoda wasn't REALLY his Master and Luke being all, "STFU I'm freezing a-hole."

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While the Schindler's List connection is interesting re: Qui-Gon ... Lucas has said he created Qui-Gon because he decided he wanted to let the audience see that Anakin's mentor/student-child/parent troubles he has with Obi-Wan later in his prequels are not just something wrong with Anakin, but just part of growing up, it's then Anakin's fault for continuing on down a stupid path instead of learning and growing. This information from Lucas would suggest that Obi-Wan was originally drafted to do all of the Qui-Gon stuff (except die of course), but then the character was split into two. Wise Obi-Wan became Qui-Gon and Reckless Obi-Wan became Padawan Obi-Wan, who then of course grows to be the Wise and Reckless Obi-Wan we all know and love.

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Ok, now I'm imagining Obi-Wan going into some big long sob story about how his Master was killed, so Yoda wasn't REALLY his Master and Luke being all, "STFU I'm freezing a-hole."

 

If Lucas really wanted to, he could cut the line in ESB from "There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me" to " "There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master." Easy audio cut.

 

Watch more scenes already!

 

WE ARE

 

While the Schindler's List connection is interesting re: Qui-Gon ... Lucas has said he created Qui-Gon because he decided he wanted to let the audience see that Anakin's mentor/student-child/parent troubles he has with Obi-Wan later in his prequels are not just something wrong with Anakin, but just part of growing up, it's then Anakin's fault for continuing on down a stupid path instead of learning and growing. This information from Lucas would suggest that Obi-Wan was originally drafted to do all of the Qui-Gon stuff (except die of course), but then the character was split into two. Wise Obi-Wan became Qui-Gon and Reckless Obi-Wan became Padawan Obi-Wan, who then of course grows to be the Wise and Reckless Obi-Wan we all know and love.

 

The same thing could have been accomplished with Yoda... but I don't want to derail. I'll get into this moe down the road-- specifically when we get to Tattooine.

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