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Terminator: TSCC / Season 2


Jango Fett
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I'm not sure whether the liquid terminator was a new one altogether, or whether it was the one from T2 or Catherine Weaver. If it's one of the ones we already know, then I would lean towards it being Catherine Weaver. Apparently the resistance asked either some faction, or this particular liquid terminator, if it would "join them," presumably in an alliance against Skynet. The T2 terminator seemed squarely in Skynet's camp, so I doubt it was him. The question I have is, was the liquid terminator's answer always "no," or did it only become "no" after the idiots opened the box, pointed a gun at it, and then proceeded to carry out a mutiny and destroy an irreplaceable nuclear submarine? Who's going to want to ally themselves with a bunch of bungling humans after that?

 

I'm pretty sure it was the T2 T-1000. The "no-no" gesture it gave was exactly how Robert Patrick did it.

 

I love this show.

 

Plus, the more I see of Salvation, the more inline they actually seem despite the production teams not really sharing storylines.

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That's exactly what they did but I don't think it was lame at all. Again, they're writing as if this is their last season and they're finishing off storylines. He's been with the series since the pilot, he had a major role in the first season and a pretty heartbreaking 3 episode arc early this season. To just wave your hand and pretend he doesn't exist as your final episodes unspool is far more lame in my opinion. His life was over when his wife died so this gave him a final purpose. We all eventually die, at least he went out like a hero. So I liked it.

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I've been through this a couple of times with series like Freaks and Geeks, Space: Above & Beyond, Undeclared and Firefly so I don't get as upset as I used to. The networks have beat me down with how fast they are to cancel series. I'm actually surprised it made it two years. Still I'll be sad if it goes.

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Personally I think this is the best show on TV right now and it's only getting better. I figured the move to Friday and the fact that Fox hasn't been promoting it very much probably means trouble. That's a shame. If they could get Arnold to make a cameo maybe the show would take off.

 

Also, I'm inclined to think that the liquid metal chick on the sub was Weaver.

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Damn. It figures that I would find this thread just when the show is almost over...

 

Anyways, it would be a shame if they cancelled TSCC because the plot was just starting to pick up. At first I only watched the show because Summer Glau was in it, but the second season was a huge improvement over the first and the last few episodes have been great.

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Well, I know I'm in the minority here at this forum, but apparently not in the public. But I'll tell you why the show has low ratings. No action. People don't want to see a Terminator show where they just talk non-stop. The writing may be good, but when you see the name "Terminator", you expect first of all...Terminators terminating. Then, you expect sci-fi action. This show has none. I watch it every week & every week I say that I'm going to stop watching. All but 2 of my friends that have watched the show stopped watching long ago.

 

I'm not surprised at all that it's getting canceled (if the rumor is true), & I'm not surprised it made it 2 years. The show started strong with action & Terminators. Now it is totally yap yap yap. That's not what most people want in a Terminator show.

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Well, I know I'm in the minority here at this forum, but apparently not in the public. But I'll tell you why the show has low ratings. No action. People don't want to see a Terminator show where they just talk non-stop. The writing may be good, but when you see the name "Terminator", you expect first of all...Terminators terminating. Then, you expect sci-fi action. This show has none. I watch it every week & every week I say that I'm going to stop watching. All but 2 of my friends that have watched the show stopped watching long ago.

 

I'm not surprised at all that it's getting canceled (if the rumor is true), & I'm not surprised it made it 2 years. The show started strong with action & Terminators. Now it is totally yap yap yap. That's not what most people want in a Terminator show.

 

I think people would get tired of a Terminator of the Week with no real plot. I wouldn't have watched it past the first half of the first season.

 

This show should have been on cable abd packaged like Battlestar Gallatica.

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I would have to disagree. I don't think people would get tired of a Terminator of the week, like you say. If the show had great writing like it does, but also had some great action along with it, I think people would have been more interested to watch. The Terminator is known for action & to turn it into basically a soap opera was just the wrong thing to do. Let's face it, the new BSG worked as a soap opera, because the original was basically a soap opera as well. But Terminator is no soap opera.

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Well, I know I'm in the minority here at this forum, but apparently not in the public. But I'll tell you why the show has low ratings. No action. People don't want to see a Terminator show where they just talk non-stop. The writing may be good, but when you see the name "Terminator", you expect first of all...Terminators terminating. Then, you expect sci-fi action. This show has none. I watch it every week & every week I say that I'm going to stop watching. All but 2 of my friends that have watched the show stopped watching long ago.

 

I'm not surprised at all that it's getting canceled (if the rumor is true), & I'm not surprised it made it 2 years. The show started strong with action & Terminators. Now it is totally yap yap yap. That's not what most people want in a Terminator show.

Oh, I know that and I think it's the result of the whole Sarah Connor angle. Like I said, I enjoyed the last few episodes, but for most of the season I was just hanging on to see if it would get any better.

 

The whole "John Henry" subplot has been terrible, I don't think a lot of people enjoyed a dragged out scenes of Agent Ellison conversing with it. I didn't really see the point of a lot of Sarah's flashbacks either. For example, the jungle flashbacks in the last episode added nothing to the plot that could not have been omitted. Most of the stuff between John and Riley was painful to watch, although Riley's presence was justified when it was finally revealed why exactly she was there. Also there were subplots that went nowhere (so far, anyways) - for example the Cameron/Allison duality question... And yes, there was far too little action and far too much "we have no one but each other, blah blah" sentimental dialogue.

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I would have to disagree. I don't think people would get tired of a Terminator of the week, like you say. If the show had great writing like it does, but also had some great action along with it, I think people would have been more interested to watch. The Terminator is known for action & to turn it into basically a soap opera was just the wrong thing to do. Let's face it, the new BSG worked as a soap opera, because the original was basically a soap opera as well. But Terminator is no soap opera.

 

 

I'm with Ender-- if it was action every week and just Terminator explodey stuff, I'd have been bored way early. The soap opera, questioning of humanity, future angst stuff is what I love about this show.

 

That said, you're exactly right. I think "terminator" does imply Cameron style, think plot explodey action. I personally don't think T1 or T2 are all that amazing. They did the trick when I was 12, but now I want my sci fi a lot smarter than that.

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The whole "John Henry" subplot has been terrible, I don't think a lot of people enjoyed a dragged out scenes of Agent Ellison conversing with it. I didn't really see the point of a lot of Sarah's flashbacks either. For example, the jungle flashbacks in the last episode added nothing to the plot that could not have been omitted. Most of the stuff between John and Riley was painful to watch, although Riley's presence was justified when it was finally revealed why exactly she was there. Also there were subplots that went nowhere (so far, anyways) - for example the Cameron/Allison duality question... And yes, there was far too little action and far too much "we have no one but each other, blah blah" sentimental dialogue.

I actually think that the John Henry bit is very interesting. Seeing how Weaver is going to create the new Skynet and how Judgement Day, once stopped actually restarts because of these people and their actions.

 

The problem with the show is the audience. People either watch it for action (and thus get bored when theres not a lot of fighting and terminating) or they watch it to be immersed in the world and connect the dots, while seeing an intersting story unfold (so a big fight scene every week isn't going to cut it for them).

 

No matter what the show does one of those groups will be disappointed some of the time. You can have massively actiony episodes every single time and still move the story on. Its a slow set up, but when it pays off (Defribs to the head, Needle in the eye etc) it pays off well.

 

People just need to expect less action. Just because 'Its Terminator it should have people being terminated all the time' Thats not what this storyline is about, how stupid would the Connors be if they went after a Terminator every episode? One of them is bound to get killed over and over. If you want that go watch the films over and over till Salvation comes out.

 

Theres another point, if there was a 'Terminator of the Week' how bored would people get? I know I would. There can only be a certain amount of ways to shut down a terminator and then run away as we saw in the first season. Taking on a Terminator every week isn't practical and would get very very stale.

 

--

 

Back to these two episoes which I think have been pretty strong. I'm glad to see I was right about Jesse being a complete and total gay, but her crew still should have listened. Now they've pretty much ****ed all of humanity over.

 

I'm leaning more towards Weaver being the silvery blob mostly because the T2 is well dead/liquified/molten/however it got killed (I'm still not sure how melting a liquid stops it...). It'd be cool if we did get to see a nice flashforwards type episode explaining that, but I doubt we would until next season.

 

Or if it is Weaver we may get to see an explanation in the near future with John finding Weaver and what she is.

 

Also best scenes by far = John henry and Savannah. She seems to teach him more than Ellison does.

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I LOVE the John Henry plot. It is my favorite part of the show. I cannot stand the flashbacks-they do not add anything to the show. This twist of Skynet trying to hack into him is freaking awesome.

 

Why does the liquid terminator in the sub have to be Weaver or the "Have you seen this boy?" terminator? Why can't it be its own thing--reminds me of that one kid from TPM= Boba Fett.

 

Overall, my favorite part of the show is Cameron clomping around in boots.

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I'm leaning more towards Weaver being the silvery blob mostly because the T2 is well dead/liquified/molten/however it got killed (I'm still not sure how melting a liquid stops it...). It'd be cool if we did get to see a nice flashforwards type episode explaining that, but I doubt we would until next season.

 

Even thought it was the future, it was a flashback-- I assumed it was the T-1000 before it went back in time.

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Yeah, I love the John Henry stuff! And I agree with Ender, it BLEW MY ****ING MIND and was very creepy when he got hacked. All of the sudden my mind is racing with "okay, what the ****? If John Henry is skynet, then who the hell is hacking in? But if the hacker had Cyberdyne code, then maybe IT is skynet. But if the hacker is Skynet, then who the hell is John Henry?"

 

I think it's clear that John Conner sent people back in time to create their own version of Skynet. It fits his MO. He loves fighting the machines with machines, so why not do the ultimate and create your Skynet to fight the original? Which begs the question, what if John Conner finally found a T-1000 to go back and create an AntiSkynet, and it's Weaver? Sure, she kills humans, but those are collatteral damage to win the war, right?

 

The problem with the show is the audience. People either watch it for action (and thus get bored when theres not a lot of fighting and terminating) or they watch it to be immersed in the world and connect the dots, while seeing an intersting story unfold (so a big fight scene every week isn't going to cut it for them).

 

No matter what the show does one of those groups will be disappointed some of the time. You can have massively actiony episodes every single time and still move the story on. Its a slow set up, but when it pays off (Defribs to the head, Needle in the eye etc) it pays off well.

 

EXACTLY. I mean, this thread has either had people complaining about Terminator Of The Week or Not Enough Action since last year. That's happening on a national fan base scale as well.

 

For me, I think they've been striking the perfect balance.

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GREAT find, Tank!

 

This part was most fascinating to me:

 

So we showed this list to Josh Friedman, producer and creator of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, and here's what he had to say:

 

Jesus Christ. I want to drink whatever you're drinking. Obviously (or maybe not obviously but it should be said) TSCC never attempted to mesh with the movies, maybe in the spirit of T/1/2 but certainly not T/3/4. We've gone off the temporal reservation lately but to some degree that IS canon: almost all expressions of the franchise have massaged dates/ages to their convenience, some more than others. The most controversial idea you have in here is the first one: the "pre-Kyle" Johnfather. I believe the Terminator mythology supports that concept but many die hards just embrace the loop-ness of John sending back his dad to impregnate his mom. Of course, a pre-Kyle Johnfather calls into question genetic differences in the two Johns and whether or not Sarah's influence is the key to John v.2. If you go with the pre-Kyle Johnfather theory, the first John managed to become John Connor without her help.

 

Or did he?

 

I've mulled it over some more, and I still believe there has to be a timeline where someone other than Kyle Reese is John Connor's father. When The Terminator was a standalone movie, you could read it either way. Either there's a circular causality, where Kyle is "always" John Connor's father, or Kyle's time travel creates a new branch. But Terminator 2 pretty much establishes that time travel always creates new branches, because there's no fate but what we make. And the Connors, with their friendly T-800, are able to stop or at least delay Skynet. But of course, your mileage, even backwards and forwards through time, may vary.

 

So what do you think? Did John Conner originally have a different JohnFather? Hmmmmmm. I dunno about that one.

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It seems to be implied in the first movie that John Connor's dad was always Kyle Reese.

 

The reason I say that is that Kyle said in the first movie that they had basically defeated Skynet, and that Skynet sent the Terminator back in time to prevent John Connor from existing as a last ditch effort to win the war. Kyle was sent back right after the Term in order to protect Sarah. This makes it sound like it was a pretty quick decision, as though they were there when the Terminator went back and Kyle jumped in right after him, without much time to sit around and think about it.

 

Yet, in the future scenes, we see Kyle carrying and staring at a picture of Sarah Connor. Why the heck would John Connor give a random soldier a picture of his mother to stare at?

 

Granted, however, one way to get around all that would be to say that it's wrong for us to assume that the future portrayed in T1 was the original timeline. Maybe we never saw the original timeline. Maybe there was once a John Connor without Kyle, but that we've never seen him (ie -- that the John Connor we saw in the future in T1 was already the product of a Kyle being sent back, and that the T1 John was just making sure everything played out according to HIS past). If that's the case, then maybe the original Kyle was never given a picture of Sarah, and it was truly by accident.

 

...

 

Did I make any sense in this post?

 

:hmm:

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