Jump to content

Welcome to Nightly.Net
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Barry Allen's back for good


137 replies to this topic

#26
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Member
  • 13,061 posts

As I said, it just always seemed to me that Wally was filling in for Barry, even after all these years. Don't get me wrong, I like Wally, but Barry has always been THE Flash to me.


Same, here.


That being said, I hope they don't kill Wally off for this. Obviously, there can be more than one Flash in the DC Universe, just as there is more than one Green Lantern.


Agreed. ...of course, there's always one standing head and shoulders above the others...



*anxiously awaits the return of Steve Rogers* ;)


I certainly hope so...and have predicted it for some time. The entire Bucky/Winter Soldier crap is just that: crap.

Edited by Justus, 28 July 2008 - 11:45 AM.


#27
lovecraftian

lovecraftian

    Uatu the Watcher's Intern

  • Members
  • 1,511 posts

I could see it working out like this when the smoke clears:

Barry Allen - New Flash title or continuation of Flash vol. 1 / JLA
Wally West - Titans
Bart Allen - Teen Titans
Jay Garrick - JSA

A Flash for all seasons. Only requirements would be to revive Bart Allen (almost a certainty), and make the Titans title readable.


While that idea is fine, I'd be quite fascinated to see the Flash title continue from its current numbering without any new series or (GOD FORBID) a relaunch, with one big difference: it'll be sort of an unofficial team book/JSA sort of thing, solely for the speedsters of the DCU. It would have stories about all the Flashes. I mean, they could all still be included in the teams mentioned above, of course, but I just think it would be cool to see a pan-Speed Force book coming from DC. Lord knows I'd read it.

#28
Dom

Dom

    Proper Rogue

  • Members
  • 5,394 posts

I certainly hope so...and have predicted it for some time. The entire Bucky/Winter Soldier crap is just that: crap.



No, it isn't.

#29
Mercury

Mercury

    Pariah

  • Members
  • 6,504 posts
Actually, I'm going to have to agree with Dom, for once. Ed Brubaker is a great writer and his Captain America run has been very good, so far. I may not accept Winter Soldier as the real Cap (and never will), but the writing has been top-notch. Besides...we all know Steve Rogers will be back soon, just in time for the Captain America movie. :)

#30
Epimetheus00

Epimetheus00

    YOU ARE NOT WORTHY

  • Members
  • 470 posts

Actually, I'm going to have to agree with Dom, for once. Ed Brubaker is a great writer and his Captain America run has been very good, so far. I may not accept Winter Soldier as the real Cap (and never will), but the writing has been top-notch. Besides...we all know Steve Rogers will be back soon, just in time for the Captain America movie. :)


has to be has to be... there is no Captain America that isn't Steve Rogers. I loved Iron Man and the Incredible Hulk movies so Thor and Cap should be a blast on the big screen!

#31
Darth Virul

Darth Virul

    The Loin King

  • Member
  • 5,998 posts
I'm that young I always associated Barry into the tv series that was made and Wally to comics and animation. He (Wally) just has such awesome chemistry with the Lantern (Raynar) when they were both in JLA. And I KNOW Hal is a lot more stiffer character than Kyle. So I'll see how Barry compares to, what is to me, legendary run left by Wally. The whole "not-knowing-what's-been-happening" angle in the interview does give nice vibes, though.
So, I'm iffy but optimistic.

#32
Jason Solo

Jason Solo

    Gotta Get Down

  • Members
  • 28,392 posts
Big news on Wally, he's definitely not dying which is the great news, but he's gonna have a new look:

From an Ethan Van Scriver interview courtesy of Newsarama:

"People are going to focus on Barry Allen being back ...but really what Flash Rebirth is about is restoring the entire Flash mythos. We want to realign everything up again, have it all make sense, and make it more palatable for every Flash fan. The Flash mythos is only partly understood now...There's going to be a big map that explains concepts that people already kind of have an inkling about, will be totally explained therein.

Because of that, there's going to have to be a few changes visually for some of these characters ...including one of the most controversial thing to ever be done in FLASH, a new costume for Wally West... be afraid, be very afraid (laughs).

I don't do things (without a) reason...I can't remember if Geoff asked me to do this or (editor) Joey (Cavalleri) but it occured to me ... If "A" is going to happen in the story, then "B" must happen as well...when you see the redesign, in the context of how were presenting the characters it will all make sense ...I'm doing this in the hopes that it will stick. I'm not making some schticky costume that disrespects Wally in any way. It's just about redefining Wally's role and relation to Barry and to the entire Flash Family.

I know people will be scared ...I'm excited that people are talking about it and have theories about the story, but I ask that they withhold judgment on the idea that this is "DC's ultimate regression" until the book is out.

To suggest that this story is a slide into "DC's infancy" is just wrong ... you can't get a more progressive writer as Geoff Johns, and I refuse to be called a regressive artist...I'm always trying to push forward with new looks and ideas for these characters...we just hope we've earned the faith."

With Wally getting a costume redesign, I wonder what's in store for Bart (come on, what else is in the lightning rod). With Barry seemingly getting the the mantle back of primary Flash it would just seem weird to see Bart going back to Kid Flash. Bart was Wally's protege and it just doesn't seem right for Bart to have the Kid Flash mantle again with Wally in a new role himself. If that makes any sense. Personally I'd like to see Bart go back to being Impulse, even if he doesn't de-age.

#33
Dom

Dom

    Proper Rogue

  • Members
  • 5,394 posts
Wally should go with the darker costume Walter West used.

#34
Darth Virul

Darth Virul

    The Loin King

  • Member
  • 5,998 posts
I tried wikipedia but couldn't find Walter West. Who is he ?

#35
Dom

Dom

    Proper Rogue

  • Members
  • 5,394 posts
http://www.hyperbore...ash/walter.html


Here's how his costume looked.


Posted Image

#36
Darth Virul

Darth Virul

    The Loin King

  • Member
  • 5,998 posts
Thank you, Dom. :thumbsup:

#37
Mercury

Mercury

    Pariah

  • Members
  • 6,504 posts
I'm actually really looking forward to seeing how Wally's new costume will look. I think it'd be cool if he went back to something similar to his yellow Kid Flash costume, as that one was always my favorite. I'm certainly not suggesting he become Kid Flash again. I just like the costume...even if it is very similar to Professor Zoom's. It would certainly differentiate him from Barry and Jay. As for Bart, if he comes back, he should definitely be Impulse again. Same costume and everything.

#38
Epimetheus00

Epimetheus00

    YOU ARE NOT WORTHY

  • Members
  • 470 posts

http://www.hyperbore...ash/walter.html


Here's how his costume looked.


Posted Image


That is a pretty cool costume.

#39
Dom

Dom

    Proper Rogue

  • Members
  • 5,394 posts
Interesting quote from Mark Waid about Bart Allen.


Mark Waid on Bart Allen
This week's LITG has posted a bit from an interview Waid gave for "The Flash Companion." In this portion of the interview Waid talks about Bart Allen and the decision DC made to turn him into Kid Flash, turn him into the Flash and kill him.

WELLS: Eventually, Impulse gave way to Kid Flash and Kid Flash, in turn, morphed into an adult Flash. Do you think those changes necessarily served Bart Allen well?

WAID: Nah. Listen, Geoff Johns and I made our peace about this. I love Geoff. Geoff's one of my best friends, and Geoff is an incredibly talented writer and is the only writer alive who loves these characters as much as I do. And I don't blame him for paving over the Impulse identity. The shoehorning of Impulse into Kid Flash was, as I understand it, not his idea. It was a wrongheaded edict passed down by an editor that never got the character and has made it his mission to purge DC of anything even remotely fun and lighthearted. But even as Kid Flash, he was still largely recognizable as Bart.

And then he became the Flash, and a more boneheaded move you couldn't have made with that character. Geoff and I fought against it, we fought like you wouldn't believe. Steve Wacker, who was slated to be the original editor, Geoff, me...we all fought the good fight, knowing beyond any shadow of a doubt that squeezing Bart into that costume would go against absolutely everything about that character. And we lost. We lost every step of the way. Ultimately, someone else's ego outweighed my opinion about what Bart would and wouldn't do, but that's how it often goes with corporate-owned heroes and is the price you pay dealing in them. Ask Keith Giffen sometime how many lectures he's had to endure about what Lobo "would and wouldn't do." So, in their infinite wisdom, DC Editorial made Bart The Flash, and that relaunch was one of the greatest critical failures in all of DC publishing history.

WELLS: Really?

WAID: In terms of sales they had on the first issue and the sales they posted by the fifth or sixth issues, it was just a crashing, crashing disaster. It was one of the most disastrous, embarrassing launches in DC history. And we were all " I'm not trying to sound all "I told you so," because it broke our hearts because we loved that character " but we warned them. We told them, "Don't do that, it won't work." Sure enough, six issues in, they realized they had a mess of a series they couldn't make work, no matter what. At that point, Dan DiDio called me up, a courtesy call, and said, "So we're going to kill Bart. I just thought I should let you know." My honest feeling at that point was like, "Dude, you killed Bart years ago." [mutual laughter] "That's so not Bart in that suit. I don't care. Everything in comics is cyclical. Bart'll be back eventually at some point anyway so, sure, go ahead and put the bullet through his head. I don't care." I figured Bart would be better off dead than misunderstood and mishandled.



#40
NumberSix

NumberSix

    Content Provider Emeritus

  • Member
  • 29,744 posts
The Flash: Rebirth #1 is now in stores!

LOVE that Van Sciver art, but the story's not quite up to par with Green Lantern: Rebirth just yet. Barry's reaction to the speed of current technology, and his adherence to the old moral standards, all sounded in synch with the "ideal" Barry in my mind, so that was pretty cool. Plenty of Rogues' cameos made me happy, too. Geoff Johns and the Rogues always mesh well together.

Gotta wonder what's Bart's problem is, though...and I'm really bugged by the subplot flashback to Barry's childhood trauma. Does anyone recall something like this being mentioned ever before? So far it's feeling like unnecessary damage.

#41
Mercury

Mercury

    Pariah

  • Members
  • 6,504 posts
I'm okay with a bit of retcon. They did it with Hal to good effect and I trust Johns to do the same with Barry. As for the story, it was great to see Barry back in the DC Universe. I loved his conversation with Hal and the whole getting used to the present day angle. Jay's ruminations about Barry influencing him to go on were interesting, as well. And, yeah, what was Bart's problem exactly? Maybe feeling loyalty to Wally perhaps? Bart's been known to be a bit of a brat in the past, but you'd think he'd be excited to see his grandpa. As for Wally, he certainly has come a long way, what with the kids and all. I hope all the Flashes are part of the new book. Or at least give the other Flashes their book too. Sort of like the two Green Lantern books that are currently being published.

But, yeah...it's good to have Barry back.

#42
Dom

Dom

    Proper Rogue

  • Members
  • 5,394 posts
Eh. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't that good, either. Definitely not worth bringing him back. The issue just read like a suck-off fest the way GL: Rebirth was, only replace Hal with Barry.
I was just looking at the other speedsters while reading it and thinking, "Why?" Wally, Jay, Bart...you have three prominent ones already. Hell, you have three generations of them. Jay's the older and wiser one, Wally the twenty-something dude, and Bart the kid. Barry's just redundant. He's useless and adds nothing you can't already do with one of them.


Barry's reaction to the speed of current technology, and his adherence to the old moral standards, all sounded in synch with the "ideal" Barry in my mind, so that was pretty cool. Plenty of Rogues' cameos made me happy, too. Geoff Johns and the Rogues always mesh well together.



I thought that was pretty lame. How long has Barry been dead? It's 2009, and technology has been progressing at a quick rate for some time. He couldn't have been gone that long. Agree on Johns and the Rogues, though, he knows how to write them well.

#43
Jason Solo

Jason Solo

    Gotta Get Down

  • Members
  • 28,392 posts
Well, first issue of GL: Rebirth was tons better, but I went in expecting that because that's what I'd already read in reviews. Truth be told when all's said and done I expect GL to have been the superior project, but this was a good issue in its own right. As far as it being a love-fest by Johns, it totally is, way more so than GL. The mouthpiece they used to laud Hal in that series was a lone guy, his best friend Ollie, while in this first issue alone they had the entire JSA wanking over him. But I think they counter that with Bart's reaction. I think Bart is going to play the role in the DCU of the the section of fans who area against Barry's return. He's going to be their mouthpiece. I'm sure eventually Bart will be won over while the same can't be said for certain of that group of fans, but I think that's what they're going for here. Someone that the pro-Wally fanbase can identify with even though this is Barry's story, while hopefully winning them over the same way Bart probably will be.

#44
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Member
  • 13,061 posts

But I think they counter that with Bart's reaction. I think Bart is going to play the role in the DCU of the the section of fans who area against Barry's return. He's going to be their mouthpiece. I'm sure eventually Bart will be won over while the same can't be said for certain of that group of fans, but I think that's what they're going for here.


Hm. Aside from what I personally see as generation gap nonsense, the anti-Silver Age crowd seem to have great difficulty wrapping their heads around the idea of classic characters can and do return because they (more than successor characters) are the essence of the concept. Barry-Flash, like Hal-GL represent that essence--the heart. Marvel responded the same way with Captain America in the early 60's; after a "tryout" story where a villain named the Acrobat posed as Cap, Lee, et al eventually reintroduced the original Cap, when (at the whim of creators) it would have been just as easy to use yet another replacement to take on the role. That did not happen, since the original was the essence--the one with character & story best representing the concept.

Comics being a business first, there would be few reasons to launch (what i'm guessing is) the permanent return of an old character unless there was a sizable fanbase/market to justify it.

#45
Mr. Winch

Mr. Winch

    Be Mad. It Helps.

  • Member
  • 3,225 posts
Aren't Barry and Hal themselves successor characters ?

#46
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Member
  • 13,061 posts

Aren't Barry and Hal themselves successor characters ?


Yes, but the Golden Age GL and Flash were not the characters replaced by the new versions (ex. Bart, Kyle), thus they are not the focus of the complaints. As you know, in the early Silver Age years, DC retconned the Golden Age characters and events as being set on "Earth Two," considered to be an active part of the DCU, instead of writing off or simply replacing the GA versions in favor of younger models.

#47
Obsidian

Obsidian

    Kill Humanity

  • Members
  • 7,343 posts
Remember how I complained that nothing DC does has any permanence to it?

Yeah...

#48
Dom

Dom

    Proper Rogue

  • Members
  • 5,394 posts

classic characters can and do return because they (more than successor characters) are the essence of the concept.



Or someone in charge prefers them.

#49
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Member
  • 13,061 posts

Remember how I complained that nothing DC does has any permanence to it?

Yeah...


Then, there's Norman Osborn and Bucky over at Marvel.....

#50
Obsidian

Obsidian

    Kill Humanity

  • Members
  • 7,343 posts

Remember how I complained that nothing DC does has any permanence to it?

Yeah...


Then, there's Norman Osborn and Bucky over at Marvel.....


Except that Norman Osborn's resurrection was actually necessary, (he was the only character who could have worked as the mastermind behind the Clone Saga. They didn't have a choice in that situation.), and Bucky has actually *shock* *gasp* been affected by his experience.

I'll repeat what I said before. DC hits the reset button, changing things back ALL THE TIME, and it usually results in things being just like they were before, and they do it because they cater to idiot fanboys who wine when things are not exactly like they were when they first started reading. That's the reason I cannot read a DC book, and have not done so in nearly a decade. I refuse to waste my money on or get invested in a company that doesn't have the balls to have actual long term, tangible growth. Why waste my time reading DC when I know that, twenty years from now, everything will just be undone and the reset button will be hit once again?

Whenever Marvel undoes something, they usually do it in such a way that the characters involved have actually been CHANGED by the experience, and in a way that leaves the door open for further character development in the future (see: Jean Grey, who's resurrection opened the door to her becoming a more powerful, more prominent character, or the resurrection of Colossus, who came back noticeably different, yet still Colossus.) Actual, tangible character development, experiences actually impacting the characters involved? What a novel idea. DC might want to give it a try sometime.

So, yeah. My complaint stands. Nothing at DC ever really changes or has much permanence. Pretty much the only characters who are allowed to develop beyond cardboard cutouts, and have real, lasting, changes are the Batman characters. And I'm not optimistic that it will remain so for much longer either.

Edited by Obsidian, 06 April 2009 - 10:24 AM.




Reply to this topic