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The Dark Knight Rises -- (Spoilers, people)


2110 replies to this topic

#51
Lucas1138

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Well it will be a huge plot hole if that guy who works for Wayne Enterprises and knows Batmans identity doesn't play a role in a third movie.

Have you heard the Mister Reese = mysteries = Riddler theory?

Varying from the comics of course, but it could be a neat tie in.

#52
Mercury

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Honestly, I'd rather they bring back Harvey instead of introducing the Riddler. Eckhart was amazing, and while unfortunately Ledger is gone, Eckhart is not and was fantastic. Have Batman and Gordon realize that Harvey barely survived the fall albeit he's in a coma. With his mind broken though the two decide to fake his death, and allow Gotham to mourn him as a hero. In reality however Gordon arranges for Dent to be hospitalized under observation somewhere in Arkham. The new film opens with Harvey awakening unexpectedly, escaping, and intent on revenge against Batman and Gordon. Inevitably the populace of Gotham find out the reality of what Harvey has become and that he was responsible for the crimes Batman had taken responsibility for. They draw upon the message of the first film, and once again illustrating that Bruce is right in his belief that Gotham is worth saving, nstead of losing hope like even Bruce thought they would, they instead forgive and turn to Batman to be their champion.


I agree with everything above. Even though he is apparently dead by the end of THE DARK KNIGHT, I believe this could be done believably. I have no problem with Two-Face being the main villain of the next film, but, even if he isn't, he should, at least, play some part.

#53
Wally Q

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As far as villains are concerned for film three, I think I’m just going to sit this one out and wait to see what the Nolan Bros. have to say on the matter of the sequel and see if there is a definitive answer to the fate of one of the characters in TDK...

Spoiler! --Click here to view--
Harvey Dent.
I would really like to see the crux of Batman: Year Two be modified to live action since elements have already proven successful with “Mask of the Phantasm,” ultimately one of the greatest Batman films ever. I still don’t believe that Bruce’s childhood sweetheart was named Rachel without a purpose in mind.

I’m a fan of “Shadow of the Bat” myself. “The Caped Crusader” sounds kind of hokey.



Secondly you've got Reaper, and I think there's great potential there. Somebody mentioned the connection to Rachel, and that could be a great tool. Reapers secret identity, Judson Caspian, could be connected to Rachel somehow. If he weren't compelled to become Reaper due to his wife being slain by a thief as were the case in the comics, perhaps Rachels death could be the motivation. He doesn't have to be her father (since his daughter's name was Rachel), anyway...long story short, he becomes Reaper so he can have vengeance for Rachel's death.

Here's where it could be interesting. Unlike Batman, Reaper gruesomely kills the crime lords and mob bosses whose lives were spared by Batman. Reaper doesn't live by Batman's one rule (as stated in TDK), he lives by vengeance. He avenges Rachel by killing those who she sought to put behind bars and rid Gotham City of and, in time, plans to avenge her by killing who he holds responsible for the circumstances that led to her death - Batman. Joker's anarchy and lack of rules made him a great villain to face Batman, and Reaper would be as well for being the dark counterpart to what Batman seeks out to do by seeking after a similar end by the opposite means.

Anyone remember Rachel telling Bruce in Begins the difference between justice and vengeance, how justice is harmony and vengeance is making yourself feel better? How interesting indeed for Batman, finally in tune with the idea that justice = harmony, now pitted against somebody fighting to avenge her to make himself feel better? It's an interesting idea, and we'd then come come full circle - Batman redeems himself to Gotham and proves once and for all that justice is about more than one man's revenge.

Dude, you're brilliant! Finally someone latches on to the Reaper for the third film. Thank you..

#54
Mercury

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I can't believe it never crossed my mind to have the Reaper in the next film. That would be beyond awesome.

#55
Master Pimp

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Batman is taking the fall for Gotham so they have their white knight in tact.

Also the whole Mt. Reese thing is just a red herring. They would have to recast the role if he was Riddler because that guy wasn't that good. Besides if you watch when Bruce Wayne basicially saves his life they kinda share an glance like Reese acknowledging that he can't ever share that secret. He may play a role in the next film but that gy won't be the villian. Maybe Riddler kills him and blames it on Batman.

#56
Lucas1138

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Yeah I didn't really subscribe to that theory, mostly due to casting, but it would have been something to think about. But yeah I liked to moment of mutual respect/understanding between Bruce and Reese after he saves his life.

#57
Justus

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BB3 shouldn't happen for sometime and when it does it should be a solo Batman adventure, no other heroes etc.

However the next "Batman" story needs to be told in a Superman Returns sequel. Any sequel they have planned for that should be scrapped and immediately refocused into a continuation of Batman's outcast, murdering tagged status. The Dark Knight totally set up, intentionally or otherwise, for Superman to come to Gotham. Batman versus Superman, Bale and Routh, needs to be scheduled right now. By film's end Superman and Batman will be the world's finest team, but right now the table is set perfectly for them to meet. Who better to swoop in after Gotham's Golden Boy goes down than the Big Blue Boy Scout? Batman versus Superman... with Lex Luthor and Joker returning. They basically made this movie as a Timm animated feature already, but it's time to pump out this baby for live action.


Very strong argument, Torch. WB's DC films are so solid right now, that a Batman/Superman crossover seems unavoidable. The contrasts/strong personaliies of the leads as set up by Nolan and Singer match anything seen in the comics or on Timmverse cartoons, so a World's Finest film would work. The villians and their threat must be equally grim (to satisfy the "comic realism" set) yet over the top (to wow us with the fantastic elements, of course).

I only disagree with the when; A Superman sequel is necessary, to further drive home Singer/Routh's version, while opening up more of Superman's cast of characters (Braniac, Darkseid, et al). A third Batman film demands to be made (given all that happened in TDK), and by then, the lead's reputation would have (believably) spread around enough for Clark/Superman to have monitored Batman's actions, and consider him a threat of some kind.

Once we have 3 Batman and 2 Superman films, a crossover would feel "right," and (assuming it would be a hit) could set logical groundwork for more superhero crossovers--including the Justice League (IF the other DC single character adaptations hold up).

#58
Exodus

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Make Ryan Reynolds the Flash and I think you'll have a solid 3rd just off that alone.

#59
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Okay...

First off I dunno if Nolan wants to make a third, even with the "leak" about the possible villain in the next one being

Spoiler! --Click here to view--
The Riddler.

I'm satisfied if they leave it how it is. I don't think Bale is in w/o Nolan, and if either of them are out it just shouldn't be done.

I though the evolution was gonna work where ...Begins is about his origin/first big case, TDK is about his greatest nemesis (The Joker) and the related storyline (including Dent), and the third one would be something with Dent.

Spoiler! --Click here to view--
Of course he's prolly dead. I think it'd be cheap to bring him back, so that's out.


If they make a third one I think it should be a Batman in Arkham story.

#60
Jason Solo

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Oh I'm very satisfied as well. And I'd be very much against a third film happening at all if Nolan and/or Bale wasn't returning, totally agree.

With that said however, a third film will happen, regardless of who's in or who's out.

#61
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Regarding Dent, I never believed that he died in this film. I mean.. they don't even so much as check his body. They just kinda look at it. I felt at the time I first saw it, that they were completely setting up the third film to feature Dent.

#62
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Two Face is too lame to be the main villain. He was the secondary guy in TDK and I don't think he'll fly as the main guy. For one thing there's only so many times you can show that face of his before you earn an R rating, and I highly doubt there will ever be an R rated Batman, no matter how dark they want the movie to be. Second, there's not much more to do with his character. He was meant to be a Scarecrow-like side character and I feel sure they'll leave him as such. If he's alive then they'll just keep him under wraps (pun intended) until the TDK Returns film.

Regarding the Reaper he's not a mainstream villain, so I doubt they'll use him, either. I know Rahs wasn't mainstream, either, but his charcter fit the origin story so well I think they made an exception. If they go with a villain the public doesn't know by name for 3 I'll be shocked.

Riddler all the way. It's time his character gets top billing.

As for the Superman tie in I think that's highly unlikely. The Superman franchise in in real trouble, so I don't think Batman should stoop down to give Supes the rub. If they do that it'll just cheapen Batman's appeal, and it will also dampen the inevitble showdown in TDK Returns. It's better to let the Superman franchise try to crawl out of the hole it's currently in and try to find an audience on it's own.

#63
Darth Spoon

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I know they're lesser known, but I'd go with Hush or Reaper.

With Hush you've got personal connections to the Wayne family and a character behind the Hush persona, Dr. Thomas Elliot, who hates Bruce. If you want to borrow from the comics, this may be the best way to introduce Riddler...as Edward Nigma, one of Elliot's patients. Maybe through a more Nolan'esque route, we get Riddler as a result of Dr. Elliot manipulating Nigma to do his bidding by becoming The Riddler. Perhaps while Riddler attacks Batman through means of crime, Elliot somehow attacks Wayne and now you've got a two-prong attack taking place where not only is Gotham after Batman, but now he has to worry about his reputation as Bruce Wayne as well.

Whatever the case, I say Hush is a good option.

--

Secondly you've got Reaper, and I think there's great potential there. Somebody mentioned the connection to Rachel, and that could be a great tool. Reapers secret identity, Judson Caspian, could be connected to Rachel somehow. If he weren't compelled to become Reaper due to his wife being slain by a thief as were the case in the comics, perhaps Rachels death could be the motivation. He doesn't have to be her father (since his daughter's name was Rachel), anyway...long story short, he becomes Reaper so he can have vengeance for Rachel's death.

Here's where it could be interesting. Unlike Batman, Reaper gruesomely kills the crime lords and mob bosses whose lives were spared by Batman. Reaper doesn't live by Batman's one rule (as stated in TDK), he lives by vengeance. He avenges Rachel by killing those who she sought to put behind bars and rid Gotham City of and, in time, plans to avenge her by killing who he holds responsible for the circumstances that led to her death - Batman. Joker's anarchy and lack of rules made him a great villain to face Batman, and Reaper would be as well for being the dark counterpart to what Batman seeks out to do by seeking after a similar end by the opposite means.

Anyone remember Rachel telling Bruce in Begins the difference between justice and vengeance, how justice is harmony and vengeance is making yourself feel better? How interesting indeed for Batman, finally in tune with the idea that justice = harmony, now pitted against somebody fighting to avenge her to make himself feel better? It's an interesting idea, and we'd then come come full circle - Batman redeems himself to Gotham and proves once and for all that justice is about more than one man's revenge.


Both VERY good ideas. Personally I prefer the Hush one though, as it's not just Batman being attacked, but Bruce as well, and it could present a time where Bruce and Batman either have to merge completely once and for all, or disband. Some good dramatic possibilities there, not to mention the possibility of Gotham finding out who Batman is.

#64
Darth Dude

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Who the hell is The Reaper?

And I still think Hush is a little too much of a n00b. Wasn't he only created in 2003? I want to see more time spent on Bob Kanes original characters.

#65
Darth Spoon

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That's been the beauty of Nolan's films though, that he's mixed the villains and stories up from different eras. It started with Scarecrow and Ra's (and Falcone to a lesser extent), one from the 1940s and one from the 1970s (and Miller's work in the 1980s for Falcone). Then in TDK we get a couple of originals in Joker and Two-Face. So Kane's originals have been well-represented already, and if they go with Riddler next it'll continue the trend. So why not go with someone from the current batch of Bat-villains to represent modern incarnations of the story?

As for Reaper,
http://en.wikipedia....per_(DC_Comics)

#66
sithlordvaderoctober

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I post this up on anthor topic but there where some pictures that I saw on the web that were not in the TDK?
1. there was a picture of the joker in the back seat of a car and one of his men are driving.
2. One of the first images of the Joker darkknightusatoday2ni7.jpg His hair more greener then what we saw in the movie and it is comb back and his make-up seems more put on better with his red smile almost by his ears

Are they deleted scenes or scenes from B3? Would Nolan shoot footage of the Joker already in full gear.......

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Edited by sithlordvaderoctober, 26 July 2008 - 08:06 PM.


#67
Darth Dude

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They're using a CGI Ledger for the next movie.

#68
The Maker

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Way to spoil the three people who haven't seen TDK yet!


edit: out of context now that threads have been merged

Edited by The Maker, 25 July 2008 - 08:15 AM.


#69
The Maker

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Using the Kane villains is all well and good (and prefered), but honestly if the quality is at least somehwere between BB and TDK (TDK may have set the bar a little too high to surpass), then I'll be happy regardless of which villains they use.

#70
ThunderDroid

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I didn't read through the whole thread, because I'm pretty much 100% on board with what Master Pimp suggests in his first post. Before I clicked on the thread, those were the three I had in mind as the most viable and interesting options, particularly Black Mask. I also don't know much about him other than the fact that he's one of the more "realistic" villains, and that he's primarily an enemy of Bruce Wayne rather than Batman. Those two attributes alone seem to indicate that he's almost too perfect to pass up for this franchise. The fact that he hasn't been in the live-action films yet is also a major plus.

My suggestions for incorporating The Riddler would be to give him very limited screen time. I'm imagining something like Kevin Spacey's character in Seven, only not as gruesome in his crimes, of course. "The Riddler" should be the nickname that the cops and/or The Press give him as he leads cops (and Batman) on a chase to catch him. He should be defined primarily by his riddles rather than his appearance or behavior. I'd be perfectly fine with an anonymous Riddler serving as a primary enemy in the next movie.

Both of these villains offer something unique to the franchise, and both are conceivable as "realistic" enemies. I think it's a safe bet that at least one of them will be featured next time.

As for the Catwoman... I'm on the fence. One problem is that Michelle Pfeifer and Batman Returns kind of nailed the character already (campy one-liners notwithstanding). But, Catwoman really should make an apperance in this series for it to feel complete. They just need to acknowledge that she's "out there" in Gotham at some point, even if she doesn't make a huge impact on the story.

#71
Master Pimp

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The idea that Black Mask hates Bruce Wayne is one of the things that intrigued me about him. You would have one villian consumed with Batman and one consumed with Wayne and eventually they would realize they were after the same thing.

I think the for the third movie to be really well done, the level of peril has go up. The Joker was great at causing chaos and trying to turn Batman's world on its head, but he never really wanted to kill Batman because he needs Batman. In the next movie you need villians who want to destroy Batman and in the process destroy/take over Gotham.

I agree TD that Catwoman was the one villian Burton got right. I just think she would make an excellent secondary character in the next movie because if done right that character can help flesh out both Batman and Bruce Wayne.

#72
Darth Spoon

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Way to spoil the three people who haven't seen TDK yet!


Thought more than three people lived in Europe. But wow, just think of all the empty villas in the Greek Islands that we could take advantage of ;)

#73
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Oh I'm very satisfied as well. And I'd be very much against a third film happening at all if Nolan and/or Bale wasn't returning, totally agree.

With that said however, a third film will happen, regardless of who's in or who's out.


I think it's safe to say that both Nolan and Bale will return for a third one.

#74
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ThunderDroid, did you happen to read my post about the Riddler at the bottom of page 1? I, also, mentioned the Kevin Spacey character (John Doe) in Se7en.

#75
Sir RamaLamaDingDong

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So, no one thinks that fair enough casting for a ledger replacement?



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