The Office

[Tangent]

...Why don't you just go ahead and explain it instead of being all cryptic, or is it a special secret?

 

If no one was interested I was just gonna save myself some effort.

 

Creed Bratton was the lead guitarist of the 60s/70s group The Grass Roots. Their most recognizable tune was "Live For Today" (I think) which can be sampled on that page as track #1, but they had quite a few hits.

 

On the show he often makes references to the hippie lifestyle he used to live (as well as mentions of things stereotypically associated with such like pot and other drugs, cults, musical festivals, being dirty, etc.), which I imagine he was a part of (or was at least very familar with) in real life. (One of my favorite comments by him was in the episode where they found half a joint in the parking lot and Dwight took it upon himself to "solve the case". He sat down with Creed, showed him a picture and asked if he could identify it. Creed says :"Yes. That is Northern Lights Cannabis Indica." Dwight: "No, it's marijuana." (The joke here is that NLCI is a very specific quality strain of the drug in question and only someone who was super educated on said subject would be able to ID it by sight.) I also remember that he once told a story about having a drink with Bob Dylan and John Lennon, etc. Now I can't confirm that this ever happened (of course) but I think it's funny that it's possible it took place in real life.

So, as noted, the "background" of Creed's character is indeed based on the actor's actual life.

 

Here are some pics from a vinyl I have of an album by The Grass Roots (inherited from my Mother's collection). :

 

Creed on the far right:

 

Creed on the right again.:

 

Creed in the middle (blurry pic, sorry).:

[DML]

"Is there a god? If not, what are all these churches for? And who is Jesus's Dad?"

 

Funniest line of the whole episode. I like the little subtlety of saying "Jesus's" which is incorrect instead of "Jesus'". It makes the questions sound that much more awkward.

[NumberSix]

So, is Karen totally off the show or what?

 

The lead article in this week's Entertainment Weekly says she's slated to return for two more episodes, then go costar in some midseason replacement show.

[Tangent]

"Is there a god? If not, what are all these churches for? And who is Jesus's Dad?"

 

Funniest line of the whole episode. I like the little subtlety of saying "Jesus's" which is incorrect instead of "Jesus'". It makes the questions sound that much more awkward.

 

 

I always pronounce such like "Jesus's", which I always thought was correct. Plus, the "just the apsotraphe at the end" rule doesn't apply to proper nouns I don't think. If it does, both Steven King and J.K. Rowling don't know their English and neither do their editors. (Note that I'm not positive about this exception to said rule, but I do know I've seen it done differently in writings by both authors.)

 

On the topic, I liked where Michael was (idiotically) "questioning" God in the conference room and a few employees (Kelly, etc.) were nodding like he was saying something profound. It's those 'lil details that help make the show for me.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

"Is there a god? If not, what are all these churches for? And who is Jesus's Dad?"

 

Funniest line of the whole episode.

 

 

It was one of my favorites, too. Michael is so clueless.

 

So, is Karen totally off the show or what?

 

The lead article in this week's Entertainment Weekly says she's slated to return for two more episodes, then go costar in some midseason replacement show.

 

Yeah, I saw that last night.

[R.CAllen]

Did anyone else notice that bit towards the beginning where both Kevin & Oscar were revealed to be a part of the interview? Previously that had been the exclusive gag of Michael & Dwight (with a small jumpoff to Dwight & Andy in last year's finale) and it seemed like the show was breaking new ground to me.

 

Not to mention that they acknowledged the camera crew in a very real way. I think the last time that happened was when Pam tried to figure out if Dwight & Angela were a couple.

[Jedi Jami]

That's why Creed is my favorite character.

 

Um, oh yeah, the double talking head with Oscar and Kevin playing investigators was co cute. And the camera crew. I've been wondering for a while if we'd ever get to meet them. They are separate characters in themselves.

 

Tonight's episode is called Dunder Mifflin Infinity. Which I am an employee of. I tried telling you guys about it, but no one listened. No one heard me.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

LMAO! I can't believe Michael drove the rental car into the lake.

 

Tonight's episode is called Dunder Mifflin Infinity. Which I am an employee of. I tried telling you guys about it, but no one listened. No one heard me.

 

I went to the website, but I didn't feel like registering.

[R5-VAN DAMM]

HAND. OVER. THE. TURTLES. NOW!!!!!!!

 

[Tangent]

Another quality ep.

 

One of my favorite things about this show is it's numerous story-arcs (which flow in and out of separate, not every episode) and that every character (even the smaller supporting ones) seems to have separate personality types/motivations/hang-ups that always define their actions.

 

--Need we remember that Toby kind'a has a crush on Pam? In one episode last year he it seemed as if he was on the verge of asking her out (I think she had just had some big fight with Roy, and they were all in a bar drunk, which sort'a made him more bold). When talking about the "PDA" memo he noted that "Someone" complained about Pam & Jim, but in the shots we saw it was only he who saw them slightly smooch (on the cheek no less). In other words, the "person who complained" was Toby himself, either jealous or trying to put up a boundary b/t P & J. In the scene where the couple are asking if they should sign a paper to put on file at the company, Pam walked up with Jim, but Toby's back was turned. Pam said "Hey, Toby..." and he smiled and slowly turned around thinking he was gonna get to talk to just Pam, but when he saw Jim his cheerfulness disappeared (Hey!!!.....you two..."). Then he gave them BS advice, hoping that the relationship wouldn't last.

 

--Andy did his regular run. He was so quick to get out of his chair and run across the room in order to taunt Ryan about being "FireGuy". Then Kevin was quick to point out that he wasn't there for the incident. Andy (like Michael on steroids, which I think I've said before) desperately wants to fit in/belong, he just chooses bad ways to do it.

 

--Ryan is still a prick, but now he's a prick with power. In the public he runs with it and tries to impress, but in private he knows the truth I think (as his last speech proved). I almost clapped when Jim noted "I guess he can't have any girl he wants." That was a total "Frack yeah!" moment.

 

 

LMAO! I can't believe Michael drove the rental car into the lake.

 

Yes, that was classic. What made it funnier to me was years ago we went on a trip to FL and my friend got drunk and decided to drive his Jeep Wrangler into the ocean, as there was a sandbar not far offshore that he could get up on. Of course, the Jeep gets stuck. He decides to leave it there 'til the next day. The next day arrives and the only part of the Jeep now visible is the top of the roll cage (what with the tide having come back in).

[R.CAllen]

DWIGHT: Grandpa Manheim is 103 and still puttering around down in Argentina.

 

I start to think there's no way they're going there but then...

 

DWIGHT: I tried to go visit him once but my travel visa was protested by the Shoah Foundation.

 

Where did they go? There!

[R5-VAN DAMM]

That was the only joke I've ever heard on The Office that I totally didn't get.

 

[R.CAllen]

A number of government officials in Nazi Germany emigrated to South American countries in the aftermath of World War II.

 

The show has frequently hinted that Dwight's maternal side of the family tree were all Nazis.

 

The Shoah Foundation may or may not be a reference to Steven Spielberg's organization established shortly after he made Schindler's List. I'm not sure if they (or other organizations dedicated to either Holocaust memorial or Nazi-hunting) have the authority to stop travel visas. Whatever the particulars are, well, the basic gist of the joke is that Dwight's gramps is a Nazi war criminal living out his remaining days in a country where he's effectively safe from legal prosecution.

 

I think this is the most obvious they've been about the whole thing since way back in the first season.

[R5-VAN DAMM]

Oh....see I missed the whole first season, too.

 

Thanks for the info. B-)

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

Man, last night's episode was fantastic. I laughed my butt off.

[R5-VAN DAMM]

My God, that was the funniest episode I've ever seen!

 

:lol:

[Tangent]

Excellent episode, and I still need to re-watch (once again, I was slightly out of it the first go-round).

 

I'll comment some more after I do that, but one of the first things I noticed was that it seemed that in some aspects Ryan had indeed become "Michael-like" (as someone predicted he would in last season's thread). What with his idiotic over hype of the new web site (acting like he's important and cutting edge/on top of things, mixing metaphors and catch phrases, and being overly confident about himself the whole time; when all of such makes him come off like a moron). Plus getting yelled at by his superior in the NY office scenes for trying to appear as if he had a bigger office (and was therefore, to the "documentary" audience, more successful).

[R.CAllen]

These hour long episodes are kind of a drag. They're clearly sandwiching them together it based on the most tenuous of connections and I completely forget what happened at the beginning by the time I get to the end. Can't wait until 'Scrubs' comes back on the air so the show can go back to a normal format.

 

Whoever called the Andy-Dwight rivalry for Angela's affections was all kinds of right.

 

I was sorry to see that the whole 'Creed pretends he's young' thing wasn't going to be a running gag.

 

Starting to wonder whether the show is planning a similar evolution for Phyllis like they did with Ryan. She's getting a mean side emphasized this season that has rarely been seen up until now.

[D-Ray Kenobi]

I wonder if the whole "keeping the pizza kid hostage" thing is going to run into the next episode. Michael gets away with a lot, but I can't really see that one sliding by.

 

The whole thing with the website "talking" to Dwight was one of the funniest bits I've ever seen on the show.

[D-Ray Kenobi]

This bit was great too. I must confess I've done this too.

 

[R5-VAN DAMM]

I don't know if this has always been true, but I just noticed it recently: every time the camera focused on Creed, you could see that he was playing solitaire on his computer.

 

 

Oh, and the bit about going to the club called "Chatroom" that required a password to get it. Classic.

[Jedi Cool]

NumberSix and I had a marathon viewing of season three on DVD this weekend and watched the first three episodes of the new season that we had recorded so that we could be caught up.

 

* I had thought that Ryan would turn out to be a no-nonsense boss like Jan had initially been - a foil for Michael at corporate. To see him become so enthused over this website that he began channeling Michael is just too much. He spent enough time at the branch to know that manpower and time are wasted, but he's picked up too many bad habits.

 

* I'm really enjoying Jim and Pam's new relationship. I'm worried, though, that the chemistry will be gone after awhile. So far, so good, though. They are still pulling pranks on Dwight and asking silly questions during meetings.

Pam's got a softer side though...she was funny during the computer prank, but gave Dwight props for beating it at the end.

 

* I'm rather glad to see Phyllis try to get along with Angela. She's obviously become aware that she's been rather a doormat during the last few seasons and keeps getting taken advantage of. She looked for tactics to try to smooth things over, but now she's just asserting herself. I still think Phyllis will be as sweet as ever, but she's just not going to let Angela run over her.

 

* The Dwight/Angela relationship has been tenuous at best. I really don't like Andy - although he's a foil for many in the branch. He's just too...annoying. I've never really liked Angela. She's just too icy for my tastes. The fact that they've implied that she is a Christian just makes me all the more irritated when she goes off on people.

 

* Creed is a hoot. Dying his hair, not knowing his co-workers' names ("...you, me, Sammy (Stanley, I think he meant), Phyllis and that chick you hit with your car"), stealing from people and just overall the thinks he says are incredible.

 

* Jan - The show really needed someone who made things difficult for Michael and called him on some of his stupid ideas. Her meltdown at the end of season 3 was bizarre. I can accept that a poised professional woman would have some personal issues, but she's plain nutty.

 

* Michael's recent foray into believing in the human spirit over technology is typical of his can-do attitude. Michael is still in charge of the branch because of these moments of brilliance. But, of course, they are only moments.

 

His gift-basket tirade, driving into the lake, believing that he and Ryan are friends (taking "Green Eggs & Ham" with him) are classic Michael.

 

* Toby - A lot of discussion on the thread as to Toby's position within the company. Toby is either just not assertive enough to enforce the corporate's policy or Michael does have some authority over him. Michael often excludes Toby from office events, such as the "Beach Party" or taking his corporate Christmas present away. Most often, Toby backs down, but I cannot help but wonder if he really is in position over Michael, separate from him or if he is also under Micheal's authority, too. He can advise Michael on corporate policy and laws to the best of his ability, but he may not be able to enforce it much.

 

Too funny over him becoming jealous of Jim over Pam. He's a bit of a schmuck who's been trying to get up the nerve to ask her out for a while now and really hopes they won't last.

[R.CAllen]

Toby is another character that seems to be well on his way to Ryan-ization.

[Tangent]

[1] Whoever called the Andy-Dwight rivalry for Angela's affections was all kinds of right.

 

[2] I was sorry to see that the whole 'Creed pretends he's young' thing wasn't going to be a running gag.

 

[3] Starting to wonder whether the show is planning a similar evolution for Phyllis like they did with Ryan. She's getting a mean side emphasized this season that has rarely been seen up until now.

 

 

1. I guess they were, whoever that may've been. I don't know what kind of over-analyzing weirdo would see the'lil clues leading up to such a thing and try to guess where the plot was leading.

 

Seriously though, things like that happen all the time on the show. It's just good writing, where they drop kind of little subtle hints slowly leading up to a major plot-point in a future ep. My next prediction is that Kelly and Daryll either get together or we hear about a date from the POV of both sides (with him possibly putting up with her annoying personality just to get in her pants and her thinking he's the best guy ever, as she tends to be clueless about the way others feel about her). Note that he was "defending her honor" against Dwight this week and that she noted to Ryan that she'd "been dating a lot, mainly black guys" in an earlier ep., trying to make him jealous.

 

2. Yeah, but such could return if needed.

 

"Hey, Bra', could you see about getting some Red Bull for these vending machines? Sometimes a guy's gotta 'ride the bull', ya know?"

 

3. I think J. Cool has the best run on this development. (Her third astrix(SP?)/point.)

 

The whole thing with the website "talking" to Dwight was one of the funniest bits I've ever seen on the show.

 

Once again, J. Cool beat me to the punch. (Her second astrix/point.) I think such could be expanded on by the fact that when Jim first asked her to help pull a prank on Dwight, she didn't really want to as she felt bad about his relationship ending. Of course she ran with it for fun, but seeing him struggle through the day and having Andy's very public "proposal" to Angela really destroy him was just too much for her. I think she gave him props mainly to try and make him feel better about himself.

 

 

This bit was great too. I must confess I've done this too.

 

 

That was one of the funniest bits on the show so far. I love how it was set up and Michael's ignorance about what they were reacting to, plus how driven the employees are out of sheer boredom.

 

"Ahhhhh! Come on!"

 

"You just gotta believe..."

 

 

 

I don't know if this has always been true, but I just noticed it recently: every time the camera focused on Creed, you could see that he was playing solitaire on his computer.

 

I'm not sure either, but we do kind'a know that he doesn't do much actual "work" while sitting at his desk.

 

 

NumberSix and I had a marathon viewing of season three on DVD this weekend and watched the first three episodes of the new season that we had recorded so that we could be caught up.

 

[1] * I had thought that Ryan would turn out to be a no-nonsense boss like Jan had initially been - a foil for Michael at corporate. To see him become so enthused over this website that he began channeling Michael is just too much. He spent enough time at the branch to know that manpower and time are wasted, but he's picked up too many bad habits.

 

[2] * I'm really enjoying Jim and Pam's new relationship. I'm worried, though, that the chemistry will be gone after awhile. So far, so good, though. They are still pulling pranks on Dwight and asking silly questions during meetings.

Pam's got a softer side though...she was funny during the computer prank, but gave Dwight props for beating it at the end.

 

[3] * I'm rather glad to see Phyllis try to get along with Angela. She's obviously become aware that she's been rather a doormat during the last few seasons and keeps getting taken advantage of. She looked for tactics to try to smooth things over, but now she's just asserting herself. I still think Phyllis will be as sweet as ever, but she's just not going to let Angela run over her.

 

[4] * The Dwight/Angela relationship has been tenuous at best. I really don't like Andy - although he's a foil for many in the branch. He's just too...annoying. I've never really liked Angela. She's just too icy for my tastes. The fact that they've implied that she is a Christian just makes me all the more irritated when she goes off on people.

 

[5] * Creed is a hoot. Dying his hair, not knowing his co-workers' names ("...you, me, Sammy (Stanley, I think he meant), Phyllis and that chick you hit with your car"), stealing from people and just overall the thinks he says are incredible.

 

[6] *...believing that he and Ryan are friends (taking "Green Eggs & Ham" with him) are classic Michael.

 

[7] Toby - A lot of discussion on the thread as to Toby's position within the company. Toby is either just not assertive enough to enforce the corporate's policy or Michael does have some authority over him. Michael often excludes Toby from office events, such as the "Beach Party" or taking his corporate Christmas present away. Most often, Toby backs down, but I cannot help but wonder if he really is in position over Michael, separate from him or if he is also under Micheal's authority, too. He can advise Michael on corporate policy and laws to the best of his ability, but he may not be able to enforce it much.

 

1. It just goes to show the age old event where some people hypocritically become like those they hate and often don't realize it.

 

2. For me it's very much the same as it's always been, but without the "dramatic tension" which seemed to loom over them for 3 seasons (which I liked). They've always been sort'a flirty and such with each other, and I don't think that's being overdone, as it easily could be. They don't have to hide it from each other anymore, but it still seems as if they are toning it down in front of the camera crew.

 

Please see my # 3 comment above under the first thing I quoted.

 

3. " (but with my comment under D-Ray's post.)

 

4. I like the run as I find both characters entertaining and it sets up several possible plot lines/arcs. While I understand your irritation with the "Christian" thing, we must also realize they do that on several levels. Stanley (one of the most level-headed people in the office) is also a Christian (or at least his daughter goes to Catholic school). Kelly is Hindu, but apparently quite clueless about her own religion. Creed has been both a member and/or leader of several cults. Etc.

 

5. My comments on Creed (and those of others) can be found throughout this thread.

 

6. Indeed, and such falls in line with the "He doesn't get it" quirk in his personality.

 

7. I tend to think that Toby has authority over Michael only in cases of HR policy. He's not very assertive as such isn't his personality, so he only confronts Michael when it's really needed/the company could get sued, etc.

 

 

Toby is another character that seems to be well on his way to Ryan-ization.

 

I dunno. I'm not denying the possibility, but I think we are sort of supposed to feel sorry for Toby in general. Having him either become a prick or fall Michael's footsteps would destroy that for the audience. I'd kind of like them to maybe have him get in a more comfy personal situation (begin dating someone, not neccesarily a fellow employee) and rub it in Michael's face, then have him "punished" for doing so by having that relationship sour as well. This could be a more subtle way of having him become more like Michael/Ryan.

[R.CAllen]

Yep. Whoever guessed that Andy and Dwight would end up vying for Angela's affections sure was clever. Not so clever in that they are now pointing out the completely obvious situation with Kelly and Darryl, but still, clever.

 

A few words on Ryan-ization. To me, it's not just about 'becoming more like Michael'. It's the show putting the characters through a process where we stop laughing with them and start laughing at them combined with them developing a certain meanness that was previously only latent. We laugh at Kevin far more often than we laugh at Oscar, y'know? And you can probably trace the slow fall of Ryan into douchebaggery from the moment he opted out of playing a prank with Jim back in Season 2.

 

On the subject of the show's portrayal of religion : surely the funniest bit this season has been Michael advocating paganism in the conference room. Though I think at least one of the jokes was stolen from Woody Allen.