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Superman: Man of Steel


lovecraftian
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I'm fine with everything except for the Justice League stuff. That's totally bogus! With the exception of serving as executive producer on these films and finishing out his Batman franchise, I don't see Nolan pursuing any other directorial efforts in the fantastical world of DC. Beyond Batman, I could see him wanting to do a James Bond film since that was his inspiration with Batman Begins but that's about it.

 

Totally looking forward to a Jonah Nolan directed Superman feature.

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That's always been the idea to me. I always thought that maybe with Brandon Routh, doing a film that sets up the Justice League with Darkseid and have it called World's Finest. This might be the way to basically do it Nolan's way of connecting his Batman to the rest of the DC film universe. Bringing Martin Campbell in for Green Lantern was a step in the right direction. Question is, do you make the Justice League film before Wonder Woman and The Flash or do you present them present day and then go back as a prequel to do the origin story? At this point, we're in 2010 and it seems like Warner Bros. wants these films done now. They're gung ho for a Justice League film but if we wait for Wonder Woman and the flash, we won't get to JL until at least 2016.

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Tank and I have posted about Darkseid a few times in various threads here @ Nightly, and agree that Darkseid isn't an easy character to pencil in for the big screen. His inter-dimensional base of opperations could make for a difficult backstory to explain to casual movie watchers, not to mention how horrible it would be if somebody tried to portray Darkseid and miserably failed.

 

That said, I think it can be done. I don't know if searching for the Anti-Life Equation is the best idea, but I'm sure they can conjur up a good reason for Darkseid to covet the human subconscious and invade our planet for such a purpose. Maybe they can crack open Darkseid's goal to eliminate all free will, which is both substantial and basic enough, and go from there.

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It could be done. The Hellboy movies pulled off the inter-dimensional stuff quite well. With a Justice League Vs. Darkseid movie, they'd have to show it on a grander scale and give it a heavier sense of doom. But it could definitely be done. I'd certainly love to see it.

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Tank and I have posted about Darkseid a few times in various threads here @ Nightly, and agree that Darkseid isn't an easy character to pencil in for the big screen. His inter-dimensional base of opperations could make for a difficult backstory to explain to casual movie watchers, not to mention how horrible it would be if somebody tried to portray Darkseid and miserably failed.

 

That said, I think it can be done. I don't know if searching for the Anti-Life Equation is the best idea, but I'm sure they can conjur up a good reason for Darkseid to covet the human subconscious and invade our planet for such a purpose. Maybe they can crack open Darkseid's goal to eliminate all free will, which is both substantial and basic enough, and go from there.

 

My difficulty, and this isn't just with a Justice League movie-- but also the cartoon and the comics-- but Batman.

 

To me, Batman always works best in crime-driven stories. Nolan certainly gets that. To put the gritty, darkish, crime-based Batman, who lives in a city filled with gangster and hoodlums into a story that boils down to being an alien invasion... it just seems weird and off to me.

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It depends on the writing and execution. There are many talented writers out there who have proven that it can work. Grant Morrison's run on JLA in the 90s is a great example of what I'm talking about. He perfectly blended the fun "WHAM! POW! BANG!" Batman with the gritty "I am the night" Batman and made him one of the most vital members of the League. Batman's intelligence, cunning, and sharp mind are super powers unto themselves. When he's with the Justice League, we are almost always especially reminded of that. It would be a real treat to see that on film. Nothing is impossible.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I totally agree with Nolan's viewpoint. If someone wants to come along and take a stab at the big-budget JLA movie at some point, if they can manage to get a green-light, fine. But it won't tie in with any of the single franchises and that's great. Don't work on a Superman movie or a Batman movie or a Green Lantern movie all the while worrying about how to make them all fit in the same world for an upcoming mega sequel. Just focus on a story you're trying to tell about that single franchise. To me it just sounds like Nolan gets that despite the source material there comes a point when you have to make the concession that movies are not comics, and there are certain things you just shouldn't mess with trying to get away with. One of them being, focus on the single characters, treat them as if they were the only one in the world as far as that franchise goes. Worry too much about how to try and make them fit in a later big-budget **** fest makes it pointless to even try to create the stand-alone franchise in the first place.

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If I had the ability I'd make a JL movie then make Batman the centerpiece of the plot... just to spite you, Tank.

 

BTW: Hasn't anyone seen the Superman/Batman World's Finest animated movie? That is good enough. The characters work, not that it should be any surprise as they work in comics, they can work on screen too. What about Justice League New Frontier? It works wonderfully there too. Don't tell me it's because it is animated. You can make it work like that with live action. If any of these Hollywood people really believe it can't work then I would suggest to to them that they are in the wrong business.

 

Afterthought: Don't get me wrong here. I'm looking forward to Nolan's take because I love Superman and know Nolan can make a good film. I'm just dismayed that yet another stab at Superman is being done without full care for where he exists in his fiction. I felt the same when Nolan's Batman concept was revealed and still feel the same about it, even appreciating it for what it is.

 

Here's a thing that bugs me, a lot of these guys come on board these projects and pronounce they are going to do something different, grander etc... but really they are just doing what has come before. Reeve's Superman... Mr.Solo. Singer's Superman... Mr.Solo. TV's Supermen (Cain and Reeves)... both Mr.Solo. Only Smallville has attempted anything different, but the saddest part is that the people behind Smallville either just don't get it, just don't care or suck that bad.

 

I firmly believe that Nolan and his cohorts have the talent to get Superman right and I think that is what annoys me by his insistence the worlds in which Superman and Batman exist in are separate and that Superman will be his world's only superhero. Again... I'm sure it will be Superman, I'm confident it will be good, but don't try to sell me on new and different. It's the same ****ing thing. New and different is tackling Superman and his fiction head on, not YET AGAIN making him the only hero.

 

And so help me if I have to sit thru yet another Superman origin story. A Superman film can be made without having to totally revisit that.

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If I had the ability I'd make a JL movie then make Batman the centerpiece of the plot... just to spite you, Tank.

 

BTW: Hasn't anyone seen the Superman/Batman World's Finest animated movie? That is good enough. The characters work, not that it should be any surprise as they work in comics, they can work on screen too. What about Justice League New Frontier? It works wonderfully there too. Don't tell me it's because it is animated.

 

 

It's because it's animated.

 

Actually, what it is is tone. The Timmverse is set up in a way it works. Nolan's Batfilms read like 70s crime drama. A guy in bue tights that can fly just doesn't fit.

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I, of course, will just have to agree to disagree.

 

I don't see how the Nolanverse is so different in tone that it can't support other heroes, let alone the hero that is Superman. The Nolanverse has a man dressed as a bat, surviving things highly improbable to survive and including the ability to have real bats do his bidding on cue, has an immortal criminal mastermind, a murderous clown, a two-faced vigilante that should never even be alive with that much damage let alone talk and move around, a mind ****ing psycho that can make everyone see their worst nightmares as directed by him. Nothing in the Nolanverse is so NON-fantastic that it does not fit in the DC Universe and neither is the Nolanverse so "real" that Superman can't possibly exist in it. All I keep really hearing is people refusing to honor the source material as it exists and has existed for over 40 years and continue to make the same old ****ing movies while trying to pass them off as new and different... damn sure the quality has evolved over time, but it's still just separate adventures, still just origin stories etc etc . Someone needs to take these projects to the next level and stop spinning their heels. Nolan has the ability to do this, I believe it, and yet he is flipping off the opportunity. You're making a movie about a ****ing superhero that exists in a world with other superheroes to ignore this is an easy out and the same old tired ****. Where is the vision there?

 

I want giant robots, I want Superman punching things into mountains. I want political/business intrigue, WayneTech vs LuthorCorp. ****ing mother **** I just want to ****ing scream. Why the **** doesn't anyone in power get that the opportunity is now, it's ****ing primed. ****. Stupid same old ****. Marvel isn't afraid of the next level.

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I totally agree with Nolan's viewpoint. If someone wants to come along and take a stab at the big-budget JLA movie at some point, if they can manage to get a green-light, fine. But it won't tie in with any of the single franchises and that's great. Don't work on a Superman movie or a Batman movie or a Green Lantern movie all the while worrying about how to make them all fit in the same world for an upcoming mega sequel. Just focus on a story you're trying to tell about that single franchise.

 

Nonsense; a film can stand on its own with its own delvelopment without any overt arrows pointing in the direction of other established films until the time is correct. This affair reads like an assbrained attempt to bury Batman in this latter-day, isolationist obsession with making the character something he was not for the majority of his published (or filmed) life: some idiotic cross between Dracula and Death Wish's Paul Kersey (which for some paper-thin reason, others believe that fantasy would be compromised by the so-called "light" of Superman).

 

 

Nolan--feeling full of himself and his "influence" should remember that a successful film series can be rebooted in the blink of an eye, so there's no guarantee "his" Batman will survive if WB feels they want to expand their profit potential by creating an on-screen JLA, or anything else...and if anyone thinks that is impossible, look to the Spider-Man series as a reminder that dollars do not equal longevity or firm "universes." For the first time, that reminder seems like a good thing if it happens to Batman.

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Nonsense; a film can stand on its own with its own delvelopment without any overt arrows pointing in the direction of other established films until the time is correct.

I agree. So I wonder then, what exactly is the problem here? So what if they build the project with the idea he's the only superhero around? If you don't need anything pointing in the direction of other heroes until the time is correct, like you say, then they could just as easily change their minds later on down the road if they wanted to. Just because they're building around that concept doesn't mean they're even going to draw attention to it one way or another on the actual screen. For all intents and purposes Superman was the only hero in the world in the original Superman franchise, but it wasn't outright stated. For all intents and purposes Batman was the only hero in the world in Burton's two original Batman films as well, and of course same goes for Nolan's Batman. I highly doubt there's going to be spoken dialogue in this new movie where someone says, "Oh by the way, Superman is the only superhero EVAR!" I think you guys are taking this concept way too seriously.

 

 

Also, what are you talking about with the burying Batman talk? There's no indication that the Batman franchise is going to suffer in any of this.

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Wasn't Superman referenced by Batman in Batman & Robin?

 

Awful film obviously but at least he acknowledges his existence.

 

I want Batman and Superman existing together, I want Robin being trained up, I want a JLA slowly built like the Avengers. It's not that hard to do and make it watchable.

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