Superman: Man of Steel

[Tank]

I always felt the best Superman story would be one where Superman has left, and comes back (either from Death, or an extended journey). I was excited when Singer's film was announced cause it seemed like that. I thought it was a sequel to the Superman mythos in general, not directly Donner's film.

 

Again, we don't need an origin. Between Returns going over some of it, Donner's films and Smallville, we just don't need it. Superman is the icon for superheroes in general, EVERYONE knows his origin.

 

I think a great approach would be Grant Morrison's All Star Superman. It's core idea is that Lex Luthor finally finds a way to kill Superman. He knows he's dying so he has to find a way to help man evolve to live without him. All Star is probably too intellectual and sci-fi for the masses, but the basic idea works.

 

If it were my ship, I'd run with that premise. Luthor is a big industrialist, not a known criminal. LexCorp has been producing amazing technology for years, Metropolis literally becoming a city of the future as a result. Lex sees Superman as standing in the way of human advancement. His hypocrisy is that secretly, his tech comes from Braniac, who is an alien AI of some sort. Luthor secretly instigates a crime wave that keeps Superman so busy, that he can't get wind of what Luthor is up to. This includes hiring or engineering some of the lesser Superman villians like Metallo or Magpie.

 

By the time Superman catches up with Luthor, he's perfect is best anti-Superman: Bizarro-- a jacked up clone. I the end, Bizarro is beat, Luthor is exposed and Braniac escapes after having made himself a new body, when Superman goes after him, Brainic offers him a cure to whatever Luthor did to poison him. Superman takes the cure and Braniac escapes for the next film. Now Superman has whatever havok Brainiac unleashes on his conscious because he selfishly took the cure.

[Epimetheus00]

Braniac with either Ultraman (Earth III) or Bizarro in the retconn. The Crime Syndicate could be shown briefly for a later fight with the JLA.

[Darth Dude]

Again, we don't need an origin. Between Returns going over some of it, Donner's films and Smallville, we just don't need it. Superman is the icon for superheroes in general, EVERYONE knows his origin.

 

I still don't understand this line of thought. Why tell any story if we all "know it"? Everyone knows Batmans origin, Spideys origin. Everyone knows Anakins origin, Bonds origin, Bilbos origin. Everyone knows John Connor defeats Skynet. Why make movies about any of that ****?

 

I only reason I can gather from the complaints about another origin tale is because it would detract from the super-action. We all want to see Supes fight stuff for the whole 2 hours. And so do I. But with yet ANOTHER new cast, I doubt most people will care about the characters without the required setup. Think about it, if The Dark Knight was the first new Batman movie, without the setup of Begins, it wouldn't be as interesting.

 

Warner Brothers wanting to "start over" obviously means we will be seeing the origin again, otherwise they would have let Singer film his proposed Braniac/Bizarro sequel.

[Thomas Alan]

but you always get writers who just want to establish that Batman's "cooler" than Superman, and its just lame and forced. Batman's cool in his own right, you don't need to establish him being badass by using gimmickry to try and make him Superman's physical equal, for example. I'm sorry but Batman, a human, taking down Superman with physical strength in any capacity is just retarded.

 

I assume you're talking about my geeking out over Batman tossing Superman across the room. In that scene Superman placed his hand on Batman's shoulder and wasn't expecting it at all. Batman did a simple toss based on leverage, not physical strength (beyond handling Superman's mass). Nothing unbelievable about it.

 

Superman also came back and shoulder tackled him into a wall 2 seconds later so it's not like they left doubt about who was the strongest.

 

By the time Superman catches up with Luthor, he's perfect is best anti-Superman: Bizarro-- a jacked up clone. I the end, Bizarro is beat, Luthor is exposed and Braniac escapes after having made himself a new body, when Superman goes after him, Brainic offers him a cure to whatever Luthor did to poison him. Superman takes the cure and Braniac escapes for the next film. Now Superman has whatever havok Brainiac unleashes on his conscious because he selfishly took the cure.

 

I have a hard time believing Superman doing something that selfish.

[Ixion]

That scene in World's Finest is awesome, but totally unbelieveable. If Superman doesn't want to be moved, he is not going to be, leverage or not. Its still a cool moment though.

[Thomas Alan]

If you catch him off guard he can be moved just like any other lump of mass.

[Ixion]

Hard to catch someone off guard who can move at the speed of light

[Tank]

I have a hard time believing Superman doing something that selfish.

 

 

Didn't you get the memo? He's DARK NOW! He wears black!

[Otanku]

I love the first two movies too, but they're not without their flaws and just because I loved them but that doesn't mean a new generation should be cheated out of getting a brand new vision for their own and only get movies they can barely relate to because its a sequel to a movie that was made before their parents were even born.

 

jason, I took this comment because I think it strikes to the core of any "reboot". Personally, I'm not a big fan of reboots in general. I think that is typical hollywood not being creative and just rehashing old stuff that worked before. It's part of the big reason I won't see TDK, because that matchup has already been done and I loved Nicholson as Joker. The Ledger "mystique" just wasn't an appeal for me personally. Why does everything have to be remade?

 

As for the topic of Supes, I think it will always be a challenge to make a really strong movie with a villian who can be embraced as a true challenge. Luthor is great because he's a genius and uses his mind to fight, and in the 2 accepted movie versions where he was the primary baddie, it was of course kryptonite as the ultimate equalizer. Since that's already been done, not sure how many more times Luthor can even BE the primary villian (other than Tank's idea of a Bizarro which I think would be kickass if done right).

 

But as most of us already know, it is the uniqueness of Superman basically being invincible why a truly formidable baddie is extremely challenging, especially for a big screen effort. Spidey, Batman, and anyone else for that matter are very defeatable characters, but not Supes... Part of the reason I loved Superman II is because he had true rivals that matched his powers. It doesn't matter if it actually came from any actual comic mythos, it was believable for the big screen audience. I would absolutely NOT welcome any superman reboot, and would prefer if someone created an "original" baddie than try to dig into the comic mythos and risk introducing a character that the general public doesn't know. I think it's because Superman is basically a god why the creativity of the villian is truly what will determine the success of the movie.

 

It's the main reason why I think Superman Returns was somewhat luke-warm: at the end it was Luthor giving him an iceberg sized kryptonite to try to defeat him, and well, frankly the audience just wants more badabing than that when it comes to a comic action story.

[Thomas Alan]

I have a hard time believing Superman doing something that selfish.

 

 

Didn't you get the memo? He's DARK NOW! He wears black!

 

I figured dark meant he didn't brush his teeth one day or something.

[Jason Solo]

I assume you're talking about my geeking out over Batman tossing Superman across the room. In that scene Superman placed his hand on Batman's shoulder and wasn't expecting it at all. Batman did a simple toss based on leverage, not physical strength (beyond handling Superman's mass). Nothing unbelievable about it.

 

Superman also came back and shoulder tackled him into a wall 2 seconds later so it's not like they left doubt about who was the strongest.

Hahaha, okay then I omit that example. However I was also commenting on stuff I had seen in comics before in their team ups. Its not a huge gripe as I've read other stories where its done really well but it'd just be a concern of mine if someone tried to make a movie out of it.

[Tex]

I always felt the best Superman story would be one where Superman has left, and comes back (either from Death, or an extended journey). I was excited when Singer's film was announced cause it seemed like that. I thought it was a sequel to the Superman mythos in general, not directly Donner's film.

 

Again, we don't need an origin. Between Returns going over some of it, Donner's films and Smallville, we just don't need it. Superman is the icon for superheroes in general, EVERYONE knows his origin.

 

I think a great approach would be Grant Morrison's All Star Superman. It's core idea is that Lex Luthor finally finds a way to kill Superman. He knows he's dying so he has to find a way to help man evolve to live without him. All Star is probably too intellectual and sci-fi for the masses, but the basic idea works.

 

If it were my ship, I'd run with that premise. Luthor is a big industrialist, not a known criminal. LexCorp has been producing amazing technology for years, Metropolis literally becoming a city of the future as a result. Lex sees Superman as standing in the way of human advancement. His hypocrisy is that secretly, his tech comes from Braniac, who is an alien AI of some sort. Luthor secretly instigates a crime wave that keeps Superman so busy, that he can't get wind of what Luthor is up to. This includes hiring or engineering some of the lesser Superman villians like Metallo or Magpie.

 

By the time Superman catches up with Luthor, he's perfect is best anti-Superman: Bizarro-- a jacked up clone. I the end, Bizarro is beat, Luthor is exposed and Braniac escapes after having made himself a new body, when Superman goes after him, Brainic offers him a cure to whatever Luthor did to poison him. Superman takes the cure and Braniac escapes for the next film. Now Superman has whatever havok Brainiac unleashes on his conscious because he selfishly took the cure.

 

That's what I was I was looking for. That would make an excellent movie.

[D-Ray Kenobi]

The Superman movie that I want to see is the one that was promised to us in the original trailer for Superman Returns. It really played up the idea of Superman being more of an ideal than a superhero, someone who served as an example to those he served only using his gifts just as anyone else could. Before Returns was released, I was really hoping that it was going to use sort of a post-9/11 angle to play up the "everyone is Superman" idea that has been tossed around sometimes in the comics.

 

But we got Donner again. Which is why it's so ho-hum for everyone. No new ideas or angles, just the same old same old.

 

Since this thread seems to have evolved into everyone throwing their ideas for the next movie into the hat, I'll bite. I actually would go with the Death storyline, but completely change it around. I'd go with no origin story, but instead establish right away that Superman has already been around for some time. In fact, Metropolis would totally take him for granted. No one would have a real fear of death or crime because they know that Superman would always be around to save them. The people of Metropolis would simply assume that Superman has made them just as invincible as he is. But then Luthor finds this alien life, perhaps Braniac in place of Doomsday, works with it and places it in opposition to Superman. Within the set piece of a fight, Metropolis finds that Superman isn't immortal as they assumed him to be when Superman supposedly sacrifices his own life in an attempt to take down the villain. Luthor claims that he can protect them now that Superman is gone, but instead politically takes over Metropolis in the ensuing chaos following the death. Perhaps Lois finds out that Luthor worked with the villain, which presses the people into more desperation of their helpless situation. In the last act, Superman reveals himself as still alive to Lois, but says it's going to take time for him to regain all his power. I'm not sure how I'd play it, but somehow the people of Metropolis actually help Superman in bringing down the villain and Luthor. Really work up the everyman angle, and ultimately have Metropolis find themselves not totally reliant on Superman.

 

Of course, I'm not paid the big bucks to come up with good synopses or elevator pitches. That's just what I think would be cool.

[The Human Torch]

I hate everyone else's ideas, but love mine.

[Mr. Winch]

If everyone wants a dark Superman, adapt the Elseworld story Superman: Speeding bullets into a screenplay.

 

That was a joke. Now this is serious. Have Superman kill Zod in the remake similar to the way he did in the Exile TPB (by Byrne).

[R.CAllen]

Brainic offers him a cure to whatever Luthor did to poison him. Superman takes the cure and Braniac escapes for the next film. Now Superman has whatever havok Brainiac unleashes on his conscious because he selfishly took the cure.

 

What? Superman doesn't compromise on his moral principles. That's what makes him Superman.

 

Do I have to repost my three-act treatment for a Superman film now? Is it in this thread or somewhere else?

[Tank]

Brainic offers him a cure to whatever Luthor did to poison him. Superman takes the cure and Braniac escapes for the next film. Now Superman has whatever havok Brainiac unleashes on his conscious because he selfishly took the cure.

 

What? Superman doesn't compromise on his moral principles. That's what makes him Superman.

 

Do I have to repost my three-act treatment for a Superman film now? Is it in this thread or somewhere else?

 

 

HENCE THE DILEMMA AND DRAMA. WHAT'S A HIGHER MORAL CALL, SAVING YOURSELF TO SERVE MANKIND, OR BE NOBLE AND DIE LEAVING THEM TO BRAINIAC?

[Thomas Alan]

I thought the deal was that he let Braniac go. Otherwise Braniac's saving Superman out of the kindness of his emotion intelligece program (and there is no moral dilema).

[Tank]

I'm making this up as I go, yo. The deatails could be worked out so it is a real dilemma.

 

They need to pay me for the concentrated thought! Otherwise it's just fan fiction.

[Darth Dude]

I think I'd lol if they actually refered to him onscreen as "The Brainiac".

[Delorean]

I think WB and DC are being too harsh on the old film. I mean what are their complaints? The film didnt make enough money and mixed reviews of the film?

 

Well, first not all of that $300 million budget was on Bryan Singer. That film was accumalating that budget for the last ten years since Burton and Nicolas Cage were rumored. And i think Singer got a lot of heat for the film not turning a profit which was WB's and DC's fault, IMO.

 

Also the film was not great. But it was acceptable. I think Singer and his friends got together one weekend and worked out a script because WB was putting alot of pressure on them for a summer 06 release. The script had its flaws but worked. It worked atleast enought for a sequel to build on it.

 

Lastly, Brandon Routh should be Superman. His performance was not great or epic like Reeves. But what do they expect? He had huge shoes to fill and I think he embodies Superman pretty well. He has the size and looks. He just needs to tweek his Clark Kent/Superman mannerisms.

[Exodus]

Brainic offers him a cure to whatever Luthor did to poison him. Superman takes the cure and Braniac escapes for the next film. Now Superman has whatever havok Brainiac unleashes on his conscious because he selfishly took the cure.

 

What? Superman doesn't compromise on his moral principles. That's what makes him Superman.

 

Do I have to repost my three-act treatment for a Superman film now? Is it in this thread or somewhere else?

 

 

HENCE THE DILEMMA AND DRAMA. WHAT'S A HIGHER MORAL CALL, SAVING YOURSELF TO SERVE MANKIND, OR BE NOBLE AND DIE LEAVING THEM TO BRAINIAC?

 

Make it a double-edged sword then. Metallo (for example) is out there doing something that only a full-strength Superman can have the most remote chance of stopping. So...take the cure to reacquire the necessary strength to stop Metallo and Brainiac escapes; or stop Brainiac right then and there for Superman, no cure, Metallo and his kryptonite heart win the game. Either way, Superman takes a loss here. He must think quickly, and would rather not chance it. He goes with the cure, Brainiac speeds off, Superman defeats Metallo.

 

This way, he's somewhat selfish without compromising his morals. Naysayer says (on behalf of all those who would point the finger at Superman for Brainiacs return, in this example) "you let Brainiac escape to cure yourself!" Naysayer doesn't stop to think that he'd already be dead by the hand of Metallo if Superman hadn't taken a chance with letting Brainiac escape in exchange for the cure and running off to stop Metallo, because people are just like that. Instant gratification. Unappreciative that Superman did what he had to do to save them before, and ready to jump him because they're in danger again because of the chance he took to save them before. However, Superman can feel some degree of guilt for not stopping Brainiac anyway, second guessing whether or not he could have later stopped Metallo without being cured and taken them both out. He'll bounce back of course, but maybe the lesson here is that not even Superman can stop all the evil in the world at once. People will have to stop pointing the finger at Superman for Brainiacs return, come to grips with this fact, and forgive their hero...their light, who's doing his best to show them the way - but as no man is perfect, maybe he's not so far from human if he weilds an imperfection here or a seemingly incorrect choice there. Should the peoples very symbol be held accountable for acting as one of them may very well have acted in the heat of the moment? So maybe they can appreciate him a little now and stop bitching?

 

[Dom]

They should just make a movie based on Superman: Secret Identity. A movie about some dude named Clark Kent who's always teased about his name because it's the same as a well known fictional character, only to wake up one day with the actual powers of that character.

[Phil_Muzza]

The next one should be based on Superman: Red Son.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kidding obv.

[R.CAllen]

Am I alone in thinking Red Son would actually be a perfect choice for another animated film?