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Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Season 8


468 replies to this topic

#451
Jason Solo

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Yeah, ditto to most of this. Right now I'm just to hoping that the aftermath of this story could lead to a better approach for the upcoming "season 9" titles. But I'm not so sure. The character assassination of Angel, not to mention the fact that no one working on the project even seems to get that its happened, is really disappointing. Especially since by all accounts, the shady and lame reasons we were given for his acting like a genocidal monster for the better part of the season is all the explnation we're going to get, and as far as they're concerned, its supposed to be enough to prove he's still one of the good guys. Its just, ugh. I've said it before but a good plot twist not only surprises fans, but it makes the utmost of sense when you go back and look at the events again from a new light. You can't do that here. I can't go back and look at Twilight's actions and see them as Angel trying to nudge Buffy in a certain direction whilst at the same time trying to lessen casualties. Until he's unmasked the simple truth is that Twilight was written as your most basic mustache twirling villain. He was Empire Strikes Back-Vader like in his evilness. So its all bull**** that I'm expected to buy him fighting for the good guys right now. Terrible, terrible plot twist which banked on fans' love of the character for forgiving, without actually giving him the outs necessary to be seen as someone working from the inside, just playing villain instead of actually being one. And now too many characters are being introduced late, forcing characters who actually were established and grew over the course of the season to the backburner.

And finally, if my guess is right they're killing off Xander and probably Dawn too. The only characters (besides Spike) who I can actually stand right now.

#452
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Yeah, either Xander or Dawn is dying since they're in a relationship, which is Joss Death Row for characters.

#453
NumberSix

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Does that mean either Buffy or Angel are history, too?

I vote Buffy.

#454
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Spike: "I keep the team small, I keep it with people I can control, keep it simple. No back-stabbing, no dying, no picking up and leaving, and no aerial sex."
George: "I don't understand that last one."
Spike: "No one does."


Yeah, that's pretty epic. Even more so if you realize how much the Angel writers are irritated by what happened over at Buffy. LMFAO

#455
The Maker

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#39 dropped today. #40 will be the last issue of Season 8, and then they move on to Season 9. I don't think I'll be following that season, unless word of mouth is REALLY good--Season 8 turned into such a mess and just never really recovered.

Also...
Spoiler


#456
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I've had last month's issue since last month and I haven't even finished it. I read a couple pages then wandered off to do something and never got back around to picking it up again.

Contrast this with having to fight myself from reading The Unwritten, Locke and Key, and Kickass 2 while driving home from the comic book store. LMFAO

#457
Jason Solo

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To me now they have no other choice but to
Spoiler

Becuase I mean, if we're supposed to buy into yet ANOTHER story arc of redemption, this is the only way to end it this time around without it seeming like a complete and utter pointless rehash. Getting prepared to lay the foundation for his death as an ultimate and final act of redemption if the only thing to justify what was done to the character in season 8. The character is frankly too far gone now to buy that he does a few good deeds and be back in the good graces as a hero again. I think Whedon's gone absolutely daft if he thinks there's any other way to save the character and just keep him an active hero. Either have the balls to craft his next arc to lead to his own death, or this was a complete waste.

#458
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I agree all the other Twilight crimes were beyond inexcusable, but I thought he wasn't in control as of this issue because last issue ended with him being possessed by his son, Baby Nameless Nu-Universe?

That may be the worst sentence I've ever had to type. On second thought, forget I tried to defend this.

So anyway. Has anyone personally witnessed a corner of the Internet where any readers are digging this? I'm curious to hear a counterpoint, because I'm at a loss to imagine one that isn't rooted solely in the premise that Joss is an indisputable godhead.

#459
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We can't rule out the possibility that this whole thing is a big F YOU to the fans. Alan Moore's done it before.

#460
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That reminds me of this thing I wrote on a previous page that I want to relive as a reminder to myself about that line of thought:

Another site I glanced at the other day had posited that this season's arc is somehow intended to be full-on metatextual. Dwelling on that theory hasn't improved my mood. If that's to be believed, then it almost sounds as if this entire story is just one big middle finger to longtime fans sadly obsessed with the idea that the series has always been and shall always be ultimately about Buffy and Angel becoming a permanent couple and living happily ever after. In this scenario, the secret identity of Twilight is all those fans' collective dreamworld, what with the way it surely antagonizes Joss and/or his writers. If Buffy and Angel surrender to their wishes, then Buffy's world ends. Again. Only more finally, or something. The real enemy behind the curtain, pulling those fans' strings and giving them their evil marching orders, is, of course...the specter of happy couplehood.

Maybe I'm weird, but I gave up on the notion of Buffy and Angel as a couple sometime between the last half of Buffy season 2 and the Angel episode "Sanctuary" when he pretty much told her off once and for all, stood his ground like a man who's truly gotten over his ex, and kicked her out of LA and off his TV show. I was happy with Angel as a main character in his own right, no longer living in her shadow or acting like an abandoned puppy every time her name came up.

So am I really having to suffer for the sins of those fans who just didn't get it? Does anyone really have that mindset?

Someone needs to tell me I'm overreacting.


STILL WAITING.

And as far as the Major Event That Changed Buffy's World Forever in this issue that the Maker mentions: let's face it -- the recipient of said event hasn't done or said anything useful in many, many issues now. I should be grieving as much as one can grieve for such a character, but so far it's not happening. It reminds me of when Barry Allen died in Crisis on Infinite Earths -- events in The Flash had dragged him so far down that to my 13-year-old self it came off as a much-deserved mercy killing.

#461
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Wait, so we're down to just the last two issues? WOO HOO!!!

I remember a year or two ago being very pissed that there was a finite limit to this series and dreading the day issue #40 rolled around and this series ended. My how things change. LMFAO

#462
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I just realized that by purchasing all 40 comics and several of the trades, I've spent damned near $400 on this series. Only to get the big F U from the writers. I don't know if this is more depressing or infuriating. I wish there was somebody I could sell all these books to because I damned sure ain't reading them again.

#463
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Still not really convinced its so much an FU rather Whedon's just losing his touch. It happens, not at all unheard of. Some of it can be attributed to him going hogwild over the comic medium, but I mean, when key plot points come up ambiguous and need to be explained (what was Giles trying to do? Where exactly was this long foretold betrayal?) , that's just chalked up to less-than-stellar writing. I mean, for example, we're being told now that Giles' intention was the break the seed. The problem is the issue in no way makes that clear, not to mention its never explained that Giles even knew breaking the seed was a viable option. Textually, only Willow and Xander knew that. Its not so much its so out of the realm of imagination to think Giles figured this out somehow on his own, its just in the fact its never presented to us that he holds this knowledge or belief, and its never presented that this is his goal before he lunges into the fight and proceeds to get his neck snapped. One simple line of dialogue or thought gets this across too so it boggles the mind how this wasn't explained in the book itself. Its sloppy when fans have to rely on internet interviews after the fact to understand things.
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#464
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Good point. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of the bad writing. For instance, no way in hell the public ever worships vampires like we do celebs. That never got off the ground. You know why vampires are worshiped by pop culture right now? Because they don't actually ****ing exist. If they existed, we'd rise up and stomp them out. Don't believe me? Go ask wolves and grizzley bears how humans act against things that like to eat them? If you can ****ing FIND one. (the latest is that the eggheads expect no wolves to be alive outside of captivity by 2050)

It was a metaphor to comment on how stupid we can be glorifying people who don't deserve it, but metaphors have to work on a surface level in order to work as subtext and this one is a flat ****ing failure.

I know I've beat that horse to death, but it's worth bringing up again because it's a massive writing failure. I think Whedon misses Marti Noxon.
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#465
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Wow. Color me shocked. The series finale issue (out yesterday) not only didn't suck ... it was really damned good. Really damned good. It was first 12 issues good. I'm pretty damned shocked. I was expecting a lot more suck and got the total opposite.

It was so good, and ended in such a good place, that I think I'll give Season Nine a chance. The Joss letter also gave me hope because it sounds like Season Nine will be a stripped down, back to basic season. Plus the TV show had some of their best seasons right after their worst seasons so this could be the case here as well.

Don't get me wrong, the final third of Season 8 sucked tons of ASS and I'm desparately looking to recover some of the $400+ I spent on Season 8 by selling the whole thing to somebody. ****, I'd take $200 for the lot. Anything. Because what I'm never doing again is reading it. LOL

But I do have hope now for Season 9. Which is more than I had leading up to this final issue.

#466
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I read it through once and felt weird because I couldn't put my finger on what I hated about it. For the past year-'n'-a-half that's always been the first topic I discuss with myself after finishing each new issue.

Three re-readings later, I finally had to admit to myself that I really, really liked #40. I can't remember the last time a writer went this all-out to make amends to their readers. He didn't flat-out apologize to us, I'm still waiting for him to throw a nice in-story bone to Angel's IDW run, and I'm still waiting for an explanation of the deus ex machina that was Spike's burrowing bug buddies...but this was a nice lengthy step toward reconciliation.

#467
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Finally read #40 this evening, and I too was surprised that I enjoyed it. It was a crappy season with good, albeit sporadic, highlights, but like ShadowDog the ending did leave me willing to give Season 9 a chance (begrudgingly, mind you--Season 9 will need to win me over very early into its run).

And as disappointing as Season 8 was, I did like that they at least owned it and didn't pull some cop-out reset switch gimmick--the only thing worse than a disappointing run would be to cheapen it.

#468
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Consider we three had pretty much the same reaction, I'd say Joss Whedon hit a hail mary with this script. Because I promise you, I went into it with absolutely no ****ing intention of ever buying a Season 9 issue. I only bought this one to complete my set with the hopes of selling the whole thing one day and recoup some of my losses. And I'll still try to do that.

But now I'm giving Season 9 its first couple issues and will take it from there. Season 4 sucked and Season 5 was awesome so it could happen.

#469
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Upon giving it some more thought, I have also decided that this issue might also have been the only one that felt like it could have been an episode of the TV series--the narrative flow and the tone of the characters (even Angel, all things considered) all felt right, more so than they have in a while.

Knowing where it ends kind of makes me want to re-read this run, see if I'll view it differently now. I don't expect that it will change my mind about certain things that just clearly did not work, but I am curious if I will appreciate it any differently.



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