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Kurt Cobain surpasses Elvis Presley


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#26
Axiom

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So it said Duh!

I knew that. That was the '80's Glam Rock claim to fame? They fought AIDS (1982 when the big scare came out, I remember it well) with shooting up and screwing!

No Rebellion, no reason except hedonism... not a bad thing mind you but damn there is more to life than playing with your penis though you can't see it above the head or through the woman sitting on it. Again Thanks Kurt!

#27
Duke

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save the flames until I deserve them

what's your problem with rage against the machine?


Apart from being the main reason for the rap-metal drivel? They did a good first album, an OK second that sounded just like the first and an extremely boring third that sounded exactly like the first and the second. And Morello is an extremely overrated guitar player. Yes, he´s very original, but that doesn´t equal being great.

What the heck was wrong with music being just a little bit, you know, fun?


I guess I found most of it talentless drivel. A couple of the bands I liked like Quiet Riot cause the musicians were great. Rudy Sarzo of Quiet Riot actually played with Ozzy Ozbourne which gives him a lot of credibility with me. Van Halen, Dokken, the Immortal Randy Rhoads. The true downfall of the Glam Bands for me though I long since quit listening to them and went with Black, Death, and Doom Metal was Poison and the ultimate lame band... Enuff Znuff: A two string bass guitar and dressed in Neon Green and an assortment of other nauseating colors. Grunge despite their breakdowns once the bands go commercial (flakey money grubbin' bastards but then thats Rock n Roll) are much better. I guess I want a message and talent in my music. I ain't no fun at all!


Well, I´d most certainly go with black, death or doom over glam any day. At least if it´s the good stuff from either subgenre.

And I´m kinda with you on it, only I never bothered with Enuff Znuff, Warrant, Poison and the rest of the utter wankers. Quiet Riot were alright, as you say, and I do have their two Randy R-albums on original vinyl (cost me a bunch). First two Crüe records were really, really good. Hanoi Rocks (glam, but not metal I suppose) were great. Whitesnake were alright even in their glam period. Dave Lee Roth´s two first solo efforts are fun as hell and the Vai/Sheehan combination sure was talented.

Every genre or subgenre has some good bands and a lot of horrible ones. As far as message and talent: never found any in Cannibal Corpse either, to name one awful death metal band. And not much message in grunge either apart from self-pity. Talent, yeah, sure, at least in Nirvana, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains. (Sorry Vedder and the rest, but one good album isn´t enough in my book.)

#28
Tangent

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Sorry Tang, I was just joshin BBoC cuz I know he can take it. I'll try better next time. Don't give up on me.



Don't sweat it. I know Baron can take it and wasn't gonna get upset or anything (notice I didn't edit it). It's just..."a stitch it time saves 9", ya know?

Yeah, and gave birth to nu-metal. Thanks Kurt!



I hate nu-metal (or mallcore, or whatever), personally, but I don't think we can really blame Kurt for that. I understand the connection you are trying to make, but, if we do that, then we get into the never-ending X begat Y argument, and can blame people you love (like GG) for lots of stuff that we both agree is unfavorable.

I´d blame Rage Against the Machine and to a lesser extent Mudvayne for that atrocity more than Nirvana.


See, the difference (to me) is that Morello could just whip up bad-assed (usually effect-pedal driven) riffs and sounds that work so well with the rhyme schemes of de la Rocha. Did it directly lead to nu-metal? Possibly, but the differences between Rage and mallcore are many (IMO). We can start of with brilliant and intelligent (albeit so far leftist that sometimes they're insulting) lyrics and pushing of an agenda thru good music (kind'a what punk tries to do on occasion, but does it thru simple music...and I think that almost defeats the purpose to a point, but I'll not go there right now. Watch SLC Punk and learn, people).

"I understand that being passionate about playing the guitar is more important than actually being able to play the guitar!"---Steven Colbert :lol:

The whining in mallcore though... yeah, that´s Cobain and Vedder all over.


Popular music has always had some (if not lots of) whining in it, though. Once again, not fair to blame Vedder or Cobain at the core.

#29
R5-VAN DAMM

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They're both equally influential, IMO. I just happen to like Kurt and his music a HELL of a lot better than anything Elvis put out, but then again...Elvis is way past my time. :shrug:

#30
Jakain

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Although it doesn't really affect his music at all, the fact that Cobain hooked up with Courtney Love tarnishes his image for me. No wonder he committed suicide (please no one get their panties in a bunch, 'tis a joke).

And its kind of depressing knowing that so many dead people are still ranking in so much dough compared to my minimal wage. I wonder if Hendrix ever tops these lists since he's also regarded and favored as one of the most influential rock and roll musicians ever to step on stage and in a recording-studio.

#31
Tangent

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Odd that you noted him : Hendix Cataloge Sells For 15 Mil....Or Not


And, see, I don't like Love, but, still, it doesn't tarnish my idea of Cobain. He wasn't perfect in any way. He made lots of bad decisions, he was a self-abusive drug addict (but I still love his work and lots of his public statements). People need to learn to not confuse art with the artist. Lots of times they are comperable (and it's nice when it works out well), but I'm willing to bet that if you actually knew all the people who made all the music you love, you probably wouldn't like a lot of them.

#32
Boba Sweat

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i never liked nirvanva and never rated cobain
another pathetic junkie, too weak to live

my favourite quote about him tho comes from alan partridge (talking to another guy)

alan - who do you like musically then
guy - nirvana
a - never heard of them
g - kurt cobain? shot himself?
a - what was he not any good?
g - nah he was brilliant
a - someone should have told him then

#33
Duke

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I´d blame Rage Against the Machine and to a lesser extent Mudvayne for that atrocity more than Nirvana.


See, the difference (to me) is that Morello could just whip up bad-assed (usually effect-pedal driven) riffs and sounds that work so well with the rhyme schemes of de la Rocha. Did it directly lead to nu-metal? Possibly, but the differences between Rage and mallcore are many (IMO). We can start of with brilliant and intelligent (albeit so far leftist that sometimes they're insulting) lyrics and pushing of an agenda thru good music (kind'a what punk tries to do on occasion, but does it thru simple music...and I think that almost defeats the purpose to a point, but I'll not go there right now. Watch SLC Punk and learn, people)


Oh, quality-wise RatM and mallcore are far apart, RatM at least started out as a very interesting band. But there´s no denying that the sound degenerated into mallcore. (I suppose Faith No More had a bit to do with it as well.)

As for crediting or blaming one single band for a whole movement, that´s NEVER correct, we´re on the same page there. Which is why I said "more than Nirvana".


The whining in mallcore though... yeah, that´s Cobain and Vedder all over.


Popular music has always had some (if not lots of) whining in it, though. Once again, not fair to blame Vedder or Cobain at the core.


Well, you´re the guy who likes Morrisey so I guess you know your whining... :D

Seriously, the teen angst lyrical theme was basically dead in heavy rock until grunge. So I´d say that Vedder and Cobain were directly to blame for the reoccurance and thus for mallcore´s obsession with not getting twenty bucks from your parents to spend at Hot Topic. (Stayley and Cornell weren´t that heavily into those lyrics.) But not single handedly to blame, of course.

#34
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So I´d say that Vedder and Cobain were directly to blame for the reoccurance and thus for mallcore´s obsession with not getting twenty bucks from your parents to spend at Hot Topic.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

#35
some-guy

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Smells like new revenue
Posted 10/26/2006

By Louis Hau, Forbes.com

Nirvana front man Kurt Cobain's legacy has lived on almost exclusively through the band's recordings, his published journals and, of course, the influence he has had on waves of rock musicians since his suicide in 1994.

That makes sense. While it is now commonplace for musicians to make money by selling their work for use in television shows, movies and advertising campaigns, it’s hard to imagine someone less likely to go down that route than Cobain. The cynical cover of Nirvana's 1991 breakthrough album Nevermind featured a swimming baby approaching a dollar bill attached to a fishing line. And when Rolling Stone put Nirvana on its cover the following year, Cobain appeared wearing a T-shirt that declared, "Corporate Magazines Still Suck."

Yet Cobain’s music may end up in the service of marketers after all. His widow, Courtney Love, has sold a 25% stake in Nirvana's song catalog to Primary Wave Music Publishing. And with Love's blessing, Primary Wave is exploring licensing opportunities for Cobain's music.

"We believe if we say yes to the right things, we can do both - make money and do the right thing for the catalog,'' says Love's manager Peter Asher.

Even before the Primary Wave deal earlier this year, Love and Asher made a couple of forays into licensing. Two versions of the Nirvana song "All Apologies" were used last year in an episode of the HBO drama Six Feet Under, and the band's song "Something In the Way" was used in the 2005 film Jarhead.

Next up, with the assistance of Primary Wave, is the hit CBS police drama CSI: Miami, which will prominently feature several Nirvana recordings in an episode scheduled to air in November. Primary Wave is also considering other licensing pacts leading up to the 20th anniversary of Sub Pop Records' 1989 release of Bleach, Nirvana's first album.

Primary Wave Chief Executive Lawrence Mestel, former chief operating officer and general manager of Virgin Records, says he expects most licensing deals for Nirvana songs will be with the producers of movies and TV shows. But he adds that Primary Wave will also consider doing advertising deals if the right partners emerge.

"You will never see Kurt Cobain's music in a fast-food hamburger advertisement – that won't ever happen,'' Mestel says. "We're looking at things that relate to cutting-edge technologies, products that are green and eco-friendly, products that Kurt would have liked to have his music represented by.

In marketing materials that the company presents to prospective customers, Primary Wave pitches Cobain as an influential music icon with broad appeal.

"To Gen X, Cobain was their voice," the pitch reads. "To the Boomers, he was a revolutionary and to Gen Y, he is as iconic as James Dean, Che Guevara and John Lennon."

Primary Wave's plans come at a moment of evolving recording industry priorities and shifting consumer attitudes toward the commercial use of popular music.

For record companies such as Universal Music Group, parent of Nirvana's label Geffen, selling music to consumers used to be their all-consuming task. But in the new digital age of file sharing and music downloads, sales of prerecorded compact discs continue to erode, prompting the industry to make more aggressive use of licensing deals to bring in desperately needed revenue.

At the same time, consumers have become more accepting of hearing their favorite artists' music being used for commercial purposes. Music by rock legends such as the Rolling Stones and the Who have been used in TV commercials for years. More recently, recording artists as diverse as Jay-Z, U2, Britney Spears and John Mayer have had their music featured in ads for Hewlett-Packard (NYSE: HPQ), Apple Computer (NASDAQ: AAPL), Pepsi (NYSE: PEP) and Volkswagen, respectively.

"It used to be, 'Oh, he sold out,''' Asher says. "Now it's, 'Oh cool, they're using my favorite band.'''

Nonetheless, the commercial use of Nirvana's music might come as a bit of a shock to long-time fans familiar with the band's public stands against commercialism. Primary Wave's Mestel argues that this attitude is "the essence of what we're trying to protect. We're really trying to balance these concerns with the concerns of bringing this music to a new generation of kids.

Primary Wave approached CSI: Miami music supervisor P.J. Bloom in August about the possibility of using Nirvana songs in an episode of the show, one of the most popular programs on television, both in the U.S. and overseas.

As it happens, the 37-year-old Bloom is an avid Nirvana fan who followed the band from its early days before it broke big nationally. After Bloom quickly warmed to the idea, he asked Primary Wave to make sure that all those with an interest in the deal - Geffen, Love, former Nirvana bandmates Krist Novoselic and Dave Grohl and their managers - were all supportive of the concept.

Once that was secured, both sides laid down some basic ground rules. Primary Wave stipulated that the episode using Nirvana music not feature any suicide or drug-addiction themes - Cobain famously struggled with heroin. Bloom, in turn, insisted that CSI: Miami have exclusive TV rights to Nirvana songs until the episode airs.

"Once I had that exclusive opportunity on paper, I was able to go to the producers and ask, 'Hey, what about writing an episode around Nirvana songs?'" Bloom recalls. "And they bit."

Bloom declined to disclose the plot of the episode, saying only that it involves "evil military recruiters." The show tentatively plans to use four Nirvana songs, with the 1992 hit single "Come As You Are" serving as "the tent-pole song," Bloom says. However, the exact number of songs and how much the show's producers will pay to use them hasn't been finalized.

Bloom says he's aware that the use of Cobain's songs on a TV show might rankle some fans.

"It's going to happen with or without me," he says. "They should find solace in the fact that it's a true Nirvana fan that's behind the wheel. [The show] will use the music in a way that maintains Kurt's legacy and keeps that intact. I wouldn't do it any other way."

Asher agrees. "If a hundred kids in Thailand watch [a TV show featuring Nirvana's music] and think, 'Wow, who's that?' then we've accomplished our mission," he says.

The challenge for Primary Wave will be to increase the value of its holdings without doing so in a way that overexposes or compromises the spirit of the music, Mestel says.

"Even though the financial opportunity may be fantastic, if it doesn't enhance the value of the music, we won't do it,'' he says.



#36
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Why do I have a feeling that in 20+ years, people will start to claim that they saw Kurt at the local grocery store or the gas station???

:hmm: :hmm:

He's not really dead!!! :eek:

You heard it here first, guys. :D

#37
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Other members of Nirvana went on to really good careers doing something. (HO HO HO! I like my Foo Fighters). Now, what Elvis hanger-on-ers have amounted to something? His daughter? Wife? Didn't one of them fool around with Michael Jackson?

It doesn't help that cancers probably killed off half of the buyers of Elvis stuff. I've been to ebay to sell off some of his old records my dad gave me and the stuff doesn't draw as much as it days say five years or more ago. Letsee what happens to Cobain and his wife Courtney when viewed through the same amount of years as it is for Elvis' death.

#38
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Now, what Elvis hanger-on-ers have amounted to something? His daughter? Wife? Didn't one of them fool around with Michael Jackson?


His daugheter--Fool around with? : Not sure unless you think that kiss on MTV was real.

Marry? : Yes.

His wife--Had a small acting career and was beautiful. Now she's bought into the plastic surgery game and looks like hell.


Letsee what happens to Cobain and his wife Courtney when viewed through the same amount of years as it is for Elvis' death.


Well, Love isn't doing bad financially I'm sure. She's become a joke (not that she was ever more than one for long). I hope for the best for Frances though (not that she grows up to be famous, just happy). She was an infant when this happened and I can't imagine her having a very stable relationship with her screwed-up mother (I may be wrong, but, still).

Why do I have a feeling that in 20+ years, people will start to claim that they saw Kurt at the local grocery store or the gas station???


Conspiracy theories are all around about his death. I'm just happy I got to see him in Nov '93 (a story I won't repeat as I've told it here many times. Maybe I'll find and paste it later).

About the article, I'm divided. I always said that I want to die the day I hear Nirvana done in Muzak. It sounds like they are doing it smartly, but, you can't ever tell how that's gonna go.