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Star Trek XI
Posted 20 September 2006 - 12:47 PM
Great I thought!
Then I read about it and I have to deeply disagree with what's happening. If movie teaser posters are anything to go by (and they're probably not) we're in for some ultra-campness in space:
That picture is pretty wrong imo.
But... that's not what my bone of contention. Ohhhh No. Y'see, going back to Kirk & Co's good old days presents a problem I'm unwilling to accept. No matter how bad a new 'younger' generation of actors will be it can't possible take away from what has upset my good self.
Star Trek XI, without doubt, should be entitled: "STAR TREK XI - The Search for DATA"
You know it makes sense.
They can't let one of the most popular characters of the franchise get killed off in an emotionally charged climax to the previous film. Yes... he died with possibly the most heart wrenching human trait - self sacrifice - and if that was anything to go by then yes it was a good end to Data's existence. All the fans of TNG would know that that crew would not accept the loss of Data.
The end of the film was so sad it warrants a final glorious fling for the crew of the Enterpise-E. They cannot be left in despair after losing one of their closest comrades during their Voyage through space that has spanned well over a decade. Picard, Riker and La Forge wouldn't rest until they got Data back or somehow found a way to restore Data through B4.
Don't give me any of your 'he came back in the books' nonsense either. I've no interest in reading about Star Trek at all... and if any of the 'boba fett is alive' books are anything to go by they aren't worth reading. The fact of the matter is that Data is dead as far as the television and the movies go. That's bloody wrong.
Lets rise up Star Trek fans of the world and get our Data back and finish the legacy of The Next Generation on a high!!!
Tell the producers of '******* Lost' they can stick their Maaatt Daymern up their arse... We want our Data back!!!!!
Posted 20 September 2006 - 01:58 PM
As for Damon, the rumor mill has since said that he isn't cast as Kirk.
Posted 21 September 2006 - 06:18 AM
The point I'm trying to make is that Data is officially dead and that IMO is wrong.
If you look at the other TNG movies (and none of them were that bad btw) there was never a reason to make another one. They don't follow into each other and are nothing more than feature length episodes. Now for the first time the writers don't have to come up with something from scratch and actually have a plotline to work with before they start.
The film doesn't even have to comprise of a 'returning cast' it could just be key characters.
You have to admit that if there was ever a good reason to 'carry it on' it was to bring back Data.
Yes the actors are long in the tooth but so were the TOS cast when they decided to hit the big screen, possibly even more so than the TNG cast are now with modern technology and make-up. It didn't stop kirk and co from making some great Star Trek movies. I take torchie's point about watching Star Trek 1 over Star Trek 10 but I'd have to say it's each to their own. I personally wouldn't enjoy it as much.
The current idea to introduce a new crew without first blooding them with a full series run could be disasterous and it may rely on stereotypes to carry it through. For example... an angry klingon, a passive vulcan, a dynamic captain, an eccentric engineer. There's no way the audience would accept or relate to a new cast that introduces new characters with unrecognisable traits to what is commonly associated with their respective races. In effect it's just recycling old hat.
I'd like to see closure for the TNG cast and above all a happy ending.
I'd settle for the return of Data though.
Posted 21 September 2006 - 12:31 PM
I love Data, although if anyone remembers Time's Arrow from the series... I always thought that should have been his death. If they were going to kill him that was the story to do. Unfortunately for the hacks that wrote Nemesis that story had been written already. And actually that is how I feel about a lot of Next Generation film concepts... the best has already been written. You can't top the best episodes of Next Gen's tv run. The Next Gen story is done. That was evident to me when each film after First Contact (and including Generations to a point) were just TV filler episodes I paid to see on the silver screen.
Guest_The Wicked God Thanos_*
Posted 21 September 2006 - 09:38 PM
I am on board for Trek going the mini-series route; A la Romulan Wars.
I am also on board with no more Trek theater movies at all. The last good one worth paying to see in the theater was FC. Before that, it was III, which was lackluster compared to II. TNG is dead as a franchise, and any more TNG stuff will tarnish it. DS9's story (except Sisko himself) and Voyager's story ended with the last episode, and TOS should have ended with XI. That only leaves either a mixed cast movie, continuation of DS9's story (which, would just be about Sisko), or Enterprise. None of these options would be a movie worth seeing in the theater. Mini series, maybe, but not the theater.
I am open to a new crew and a new time period. Possibly also open to either a return to the TOS era (IE in between years of TOS and TMP, where you could see ships of both the movie and TOS designs together. In between Trek 6 and TNG would also be interesting) with a new ship and crew, or or maybe the return of Enterprise as a mini series once or twice a year.
No restart, especially TOS. Why bother to go to the trouble of updating the FX, if you are going to reboot. anyway? For this reason, and the fact that Trek 11 will tank (make no mistake: it will tank for sure), I doubt it will happen, though.
...oh and Data is dead. He needs to stay dead. In fact, TNG should stay dead. Its best days are behind it. Time to move on. This includes Riker's ship. I Used to want to see a movie about the Titan, but since hearing about the books, I lost interest big time. It made me realize there is no where to go for such a movie.
Edited by The Wicked God Thanos, 21 September 2006 - 09:59 PM.
Posted 22 September 2006 - 01:32 AM
Also "All Good Things..." was the best ending to a series I have ever seen.
I totally agree it was an amazing episode. But it wasn't the end for TNG was it.
The actual ending was everyone from the TNG cast feeling very sad about losing Data. That's the Canon of it. If you choose to ignore everything after 'All Good Things' then that's your prerogative.
Best episode was 'Chain of Command' for me. Patrick Stewart's performance was awesome in that one.
I thought the mini-parallel between Data and Spock would have been a great idea and would have paid tribute to the TNG and TOS casts.
Posted 23 September 2006 - 04:53 PM
Personally, I think they should have made "B-4" a completely different looking android. That way they could have continued Data w/o SPiner if they wanted and still brought back Spiner if they wanted to.
This new movie makes a better tv series idea. Do "Starfleet Academy" but do it in present time. That way you can get cameos of everyone still around. If written well, I bet you'd have a potential hit on your hands. Just look at what teen sci-fi dramas like Smallville and Roswell have done.
Posted 24 September 2006 - 09:39 AM
Persoanlly, I think they should just lt it be for at LEAST 10 years.
Posted 24 September 2006 - 04:50 PM
As this thread demonstrates, trek has painted itself into a corner. With so many shows, and so much time on screen their fans are divided. No mattr WHAT they do with the franchise, it will piss off a huge section of the fans.
Persoanlly, I think they should just lt it be for at LEAST 10 years.
I totally agree with you Tank... I just feel that they should resurrect Data in some way or form. I just don't feel the timing is right for a new cast and crew.
The ST fan base has never been introduced to a cast via the cinema. That really causes problems. I for one would probably be as unbiased as I normally am (i love the phantom menace ffs), but I still think it would be an amazing culture shock to the fans and would represent a move in a new direction ignoring their fanbase.
It's like I said earlier... they couldn't introduce a new cast without sticking to stereotypes because they wouldn't have enough time on screen to explain the difference between the characters and their stereotypes.
If they tried to brush over a timid and non-confrontational Klingon (and i know i'm talking about extremes) the fans would absolutely crucify them for it without first watching the evolution and backstory of that character over several episodes within a series. That's why they would have to conform.
If in a decade or so they wanted to do this, the fanbase would be hungry for more and could let it go in the hope their weekly hour long fix of Sci-Fi would return. However, the hardcore fans wouldn't have any of it because it would go hand in hand with the SW prequels and would be completely regarded with hatred because it would be very different from what the people who were set in their ways were used to (saucer of milk for ralphie ).
I just feel that all said and done, if they had to make another movie... or run another season it should be to return Data to the ST universe as alive. If this made the TNG cast happy again and let them go out on a high then that would satisfy me even more. But it goes back to torchie's preferences and it is indeed... each to their own
Posted 24 September 2006 - 05:44 PM
But they did ressuercct Data. They chickened out and re-wrote the ending of Nemsis to show that Data had in some way been downloaded in B4.
Ahhh... but the film finished with Picard not being able to find a way to restore Data's memories and experiences within B4. Something Data had himself tried to do to advance his 'brother' earlier in the movie. I think Data cleared this up by saying that his brother was not as advanced as he was and therfore could not accept his input.
This is my bone of contention... they left that dilemma as a hanging point. Something they intentionally left to rectify in the future.
Unfortunately, I'm seeing a parallel between this and the ending of X-Men 3. As completely unnaceptable as the third installment was of this particular series (once again my own personal view), they left it open as if to encourage a sequel without ever having the intention of making one.
There is something I've intentionally neglected until this point... Lore still exists. If somehow Lore was reconstructed and the information stored in B4 were combined... then we have a story on our hands.
Unfortunately I feel that story would only fill up an hour long episode with commercial breaks