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Official Doctor Who New Series Discussion (spoilers)


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Maybe the characters aren't even related at all. Freema was in a 10th Doctor episode as a different character pretty visibly; stretches of dialogue, scenes revolving around her. Then later Freema got cast as a new character to be the new companion. Karen had a tiny part as a Sybil in a 10th Doctor episode too.

 

 

 

Right, definitely recall those occasions. But this is happening all in one season; they are doing this on purpose as opposed to it being a happenstance of casting over the arc of a couple of seasons. That Jenna-Louise Coleman was in Asylum of the Daleks as a character names Oswin Oswald was a very closely guarded secret by the creators. Coleman had already been announced as the new companion before the season even began filming and had been doing press as 'Clara'. Something is up...

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That, and pretty much this:

The 'new chick' had already been set up.   Lot's of pretty spot on fan theories regarding how Clara is a meta-textual analogy for the show itself. She's born on Nov 23, the show's original air date. S

That reads like HuffPo had an embargoed interview they ran early. Somebody's getting fired.

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Just watched the Xmas special. One of the better ones, although it's clearly a set up for the new chick.

 

However it has Richard E. Grant and Gandalf in it which alone make it worth watching.

 

As for the new bird....

I'm in love.

Already forgotten about the previous ginger midden.

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I’ve been a Moffat/Smith era hater pretty much from day one of their debut. In the past two seasons, I’ve watched one story, “Asylum of the Daleks.” I’m not going to go into the many reasons I haven’t cared for this run. Instead, I look to the future and am cautiously optimistic after watching the new Christmas special.

 

New opening, SO MUCH better than the crap sequence that was used with Smith’s debut – and with a face in the sequence is an extra bonus! New TARDIS interior. Yup, got that right too. Clearly Gallifreyian with a nod to the classic series. I was never a fan of the earth type objects on the console. Why? It’s alien from the most advanced of alien species in the universe. Great revamp! New companion: They replaced Amy Pond’s legs with Clara’s boobs. I’m good with it. Perhaps this is a nod to the classic series too reminiscent of Leela and Peri.

 

The story itself: still way too dependent on sonic screwdriver foolishness, but the toned down antics of the Doctor with an added Time Lord weight is a big improvement over the past characterization of Doc 11 not remembering a single thing his previous 10 selves experienced and accomplished. I’m going to stick this one through until the final big 50th anniversary special. I’m hoping to be won back to this series that lost me officially at Smith’s second season.

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I don't think you can take a shot like "not remembering a single thing his previous ten selves..." If you've only watched a couple episodes of Smith's run. You're sour grapes. as a life long Who fan I think Tennant is the best Doc, but the show under Moffat's reign has been the best it's ever been.

 

But I do agree with you that doing all the retro connections is a great way to do the 50th anniversary.

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Actually I watched all of Smith's first season and stopped shortly into his second. All of it was garbage, IMO. Turned on “Asylum of the Daleks,” even more garbage. So I'm hardly coming from an ill-informed perspective. But I am committing myself to this entire second half up until the 50th Anniversary special. It good be great, it could be torture.

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I'm not trolling or picking a fight-- but I'm genuinely curious as to what about the Moffat/smith run you don't like, exactly.

 

Again, I grew up with classic Who, but as an adult, to go back and watch the old stuff is nearly impossible for me. It's excruciatingly bad and hokey. There's great moments, but I don't say any of them really standing up to the test of time.

 

The relaunch, since 2005, has improved with each season in terms of story and production quality. I'm always genuinely surprised to hear people say they don't like it.

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Very enjoyable Christmas special! Been a while - the ones since Tennant's final 2 episodes have been a bit below par. Loved the new console room - agree with comments about the random objects on the old one being just plain odd. This is much more traditional, which is apt with the 50th anniversary coming up. Liked seeing the Doctor's face in the new opening titles as well. Only criticism would be that Richard E Grant was underused I thought. But a good xmas treat all the same.

 

There was an indication that the characters from Asylum of the Daleks and this one were linked quite early. He said he liked her name Clara, and not to change it which got me wondering. The name Montague was her assumed name - is it just me or has that featured before? It seemed familiar.

 

Enjoy the rest of your festive season everybody!

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Pretty good xmas special, I love Clara already. Usually the companions spend a while playing catch up but it seems like she's already up to speed and will be much more of a 'partner' to the Doctor than we've seen before. I'll miss Pond but her character had more than enough character arc, I think. It was just time for her to go.

I also liked the "team" dynamic and hope they keep 'em around for a while. I know the Doctor has had posses before but they don't usually stick around too long.

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It was okay. Is Clara/Oswin going to die each episode and come back? Is she the Doctor's daughter? Do these questions intrigue me in the slightest? No, not really.

 

Just give me a Lizard Woman From The Dawn of Time & Wife show, please.

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"It's smaller on the outside." Amazing that's never been said before.

 

And I don't think Clara/Oswin is going to die over and over like Rory or anything. I also don't think that she's just a family member like how they explained actresses showing up more than once like Martha having a cousin in Torchwood, or Gwen from Torchwood having an ancestor in Victorian Cardiff.

I think there's something more interesting planned with her.

 

Clara and Oswin are very similar in that they seemed to be very intelligent and fearless and able to adapt to anything thrown at them. Despite that, both of them were more or less trapped in a life they weren't happy with. Clara as a barmaid, Oswin in the crashed ship. I was skeptical about a companion coming from the Victorian era, but it looks like the "real" Clara will be the one in modern day we saw in the end.

 

I'm guessing that she is some sort of timey wimey anomaly that is continuously reborn. Like a science fiction version of reincarnation. There might be something sinister behind it as well. I know some people are tired of the companions being "special" (Rose absorbing the heart of the Tardis, Donna becoming Doctor-Donna, River knowing so much, Amy being able to reboot the universe thanks to growing up next to a crack in time) but I don't mind it. I don't think she's universe ending epic special like Amy or Rose, there's just a mystery about her.

 

I also see a lot of people complaining online about the fact she kissed the Doctor and that sexual tension with companions is something the reboot series has abused. To that I just think Clara was being cheeky when she kissed him. Plus, she's not going to be the Clara that comes aboard. No need to get worked up about that. I'm also not sure that the Doctor is married to River. It did happen in an alternate reality, and when we thought he whispered his name, he was telling her to look in his eye. We know he likely marries her eventually, but maybe it hasn't happened. Or maybe the River relationship has all played out. In the Power of Three, Amy and Rory revealed that despite the show only having a couple series with them, in-show timeline they has travelled with the Doctor for 10 years. We also know there was 200 years between the two Doctors in the Impossible Astronaut. So I think a lot has happened with River off-screen.

 

As for the Doctor himself, Matt Smith is killing it. The Tenth Doctor was so dark and sad at the end of his life that he regenerated to the complete reverse. The 11th Doctor was born almost child-like-- reflected in his fun house Tardis and initially wanting to take on Amy as companion as a child. Time has not been kind and he's gotten dark again-- which is natural for the Doctor. Several of them flipped between being extroverted and cheerful and dark and broody. The sixth, seventh, ninth and tenth all had similar arcs. What's different this time is that the 11th Doctor started SO childlike that the difference is extreme. I've always thought Smith did a great job of being the youngest physical doctor with the oldest mind. Smith added a whole new dimension to it with this episode. He was his familiar self, but very different at the same time.

 

Gman mentioned he took issue with the Doctor not remembering things from previous versions-- which I am assuming he meant as a shot at continuity and the writers not taking everything into account. Well, one, with 50 years of stories I don't think that's possible. I've always forgiven continuity errors if a story is good. That said, at the end, the Doctor thought the "great intelligence" sounded familiar.

 

This was a reference to the second Doctor's adventures with the Yeti. He even gave it something in a tin with a map of the Metro, which the Yeti attacked in Web of Fear. The fact the Doctor didn't immediately recall this implies to me that even he has started to lose track of things. We know that as a time lord he's supposed to be able to "know" when time is wrong, or things are out of whack. But the continuity of the universe has been changed so many times, and he can see the variables and after over a thousand years of doing so, it makes sense that even he may not remember everything he has done.

 

What else...

 

The new intro/theme music are my favorite of all time. I've always hated Smith's era intro, and the Eccelson/Tennant version was okay at first, but felt pretty boring after a few years. This new one captures the spirit of the old style credits, with modern flair. Intentional obviously. The music did the same-- lots of analog synth accents, but a more orchestral through line.

 

Same goes for the new control room. I never liked either of the control rooms from the new series. I always felt they were too much. Wasn't a fan of the whackadoodle ketchup dispensing console. I always thought that was pushing it a bit. Like the open, the new interior is classic design with modern sensibility-- like the show itself. This is what they should have done from the start. This is my favorite interior by far.

 

So for me really-- this show has changed the few things I thought needed changing. If they can shed just a fraction more of unintentional BBC hokeyness this will be perfect.

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Just watched the Xmas special. One of the better ones, although it's clearly a set up for the new chick.

 

 

The 'new chick' had already been set up.

 

Lot's of pretty spot on fan theories regarding how Clara is a meta-textual analogy for the show itself. She's born on Nov 23, the show's original air date. She dies at age 26 just as the show was cancelled after 26 season. She takes care of children (Junior Entertainments Director) as well as serving adults (the job at the pub). And there's a ton more. Pretty fun if you care about that stuff.

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Lot's of pretty spot on fan theories regarding how Clara is a meta-textual analogy for the show itself. She's born on Nov 23, the show's original air date. She dies at age 26 just as the show was cancelled after 26 season. She takes care of children (Junior Entertainments Director) as well as serving adults (the job at the pub). And there's a ton more. Pretty fun if you care about that stuff.

 

That's interesting and I want to read more about that!!! Do you have a link please thank you?

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Lot's of pretty spot on fan theories regarding how Clara is a meta-textual analogy for the show itself. She's born on Nov 23, the show's original air date. She dies at age 26 just as the show was cancelled after 26 season. She takes care of children (Junior Entertainments Director) as well as serving adults (the job at the pub). And there's a ton more. Pretty fun if you care about that stuff.

 

That's interesting and I want to read more about that!!! Do you have a link please thank you?

 

Here's a quick summation lifted from a post at GallifreyBase:

  • Born 23rd of November, like the show
  • Had a brief “hiatus” after a Dalek episode, like the show (Me: reference to the BBC Controller-enforced 18 month hiatus after season 22, leaving off after 'Revelation of the Daleks'. Quite a big deal at the time, believe me!)
  • Lived for 26 years, like the classic show
  • Was “cancelled” twice but keeps coming back, like the show
  • Was responsible for Junior Entertainments, like the show (Me: Reference to Sydney Newman and Verity Lamberts' positioning of the show within the BBC in '63.)
  • Appeals to both children and adults, who miss her when she’s gone, like the show (Me: Reference to her two jobs occupations within 'The Snowmen')
  • An entertainer and an educator, the show’s original 1963 remit. (See above)
  • She says “Doctor Who?" All the time.
  • Another Oswald is associated with 23 November, 1963 (Me: This one was a little off-putting if only because... what a reference to make! But hard to deny...)

Also, someone else pointed out that Amy Pond first fleetingly met the Doctor as a child in '96, the year of the fleeting, failed US TV movie/pilot which aired to big numbers in the UK. And, of course, the Doctor disappeared until many year later by which time Amy was an adult much like the show then disappeared (again) until '05. So Moffat may have have been playing these little games for some time.

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That list above is great!

 

I thought the "Paternoster Gang" was inspired fun. I'd love to see more of their adventures.

 

I love the stripped-down Tardis interior, though I think it could use more light down the perimeter walls. I've read online that it's speculated that's the "default desktop," which kinda puts this Doctor in a rebuilding state. The episode's premise seems to establish that.

 

Enjoyed Clara tons. I love how her character has a hunger to share his adventures. She's going to enjoy running.

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