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Official Doctor Who New Series Discussion (spoilers)


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River being thie child is nooooooooot what I want.

 

Too cliche.

 

I'd rather her be nobody, just a traveller who encounters the Doctor and falls in love.

 

Especially as this little girl appears to be Amy's daughter (possibly with the Doctor, possibly infued with the time stream, possibly something else!), having her be River too makes things too complicated

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I think that the baby in all likelihood has something to do with Time Lords. But not necessarily directly linked to the Doctor. We've seen the Tardis change Donna and create a human Doctor. With everything that has happened with Amy, the crack, the universe reset etc I think it's possible and stomachable that Amy has absorbed Tardis, space/time energy.

 

With that I think all options are palatable; Romana return. Or new character. Or River. Or River = Romana. Or etc etc

 

At the very least I'm willing to hedge bets that Astro-Girl is technically Amy's and the Tardis's child.

 

Spinning off that again I think having that setup relate to River could be tremendous. 1. No wonder she loves the Doctor. 2. No wonder she knows how to fly the Tardis. 3. No wonder she's time displaced.

 

But again, anything is possible ATM. But I think at least it's Amy/Tardis related not literally Amy/Doctor.

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Yeah I doubt they would ever go that far in this show. I'm thinking traveling in the TARDIs whilst preggers does something to the baby.

 

I also think it's more to do with the season rather than the whole 'Who is River?' bit. The Silence were protecting that child. Why? She obviously has some sort of Time Lord powers, did the Time Lords set the Silence the task of keeping her safe so that she may one day bring them back?

 

I really hope so, I hated that they were killed off

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Didn't they themselves even say "Silence will fall"? I can't imagine all those little hints peppered throughout last season would get resolved so soon. They may be playing a part in a grander scheme. The only overt violent act was killing that Joy chick. Otherwise they were just damned creepy.

 

Oh, and what's connection with The Lodger's control room? I'll have to rewatch it but that doesn't seem like such a filler episode now.

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The Amy/TARDIS theory is probably the best. That would explain why the scan of her body kept popping back and forth between positive and negative. It also means that the scene where Amy tries to get funky with the Doctor after the Weeping Angels incident was a very pointed scene aimed at this season.

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Yeaaaaaaah maybe. Lots of people have been saying 'Oh it must be her and the Doctor's baby' but I don't see that. Not when they've done so much to pull Rory back in and make their relationship so much better.

 

I have to say that Arthur Darvill has been immense in these two episodes. Even if his scenes don't seem to matter too much, he makes them matter

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My theory is, the girl is actually The Doctor's and River's, and Amy is an unknowing surrogate mother due to timey-wimey wibbly wobbly.

 

Also, I feel like they are cutting short a lot of River's story. When we first met her, we got the impression she was with a much later/older Doctor. And the first time she saw Matt Smith she didn't seem to act as though he was "her" doctor.

 

Though I suppose it could work. There's a couple different theories as to here timeline.. here's the two that make most sense to me:

 

 

 

The first implies the Doctor and River are meeting in reverse order, as implied by this season. The second that they meet in a more random order as implied by last season.

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The only thing that sticks out to me-- and remind me if I am wrong, but I swear that when River first saw Matt Smith she recognized him, but it still wasn't "her" Doctor that she had the relationship with. Now it seems as if it is, because she wouldn't buy that the Astronaut killed him if she had been with a later regeneration... right?

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Yeah that's the one thing that pretty much means that we will see an end to River Song whilst Matt Smith is The Doctor.

 

The first time they met was in the Weeping Angels episode from last year, I haven't seen that again since but I do remember something similar.

 

It can always be passed of as '11 was always her Doctor, but he wasn't who she knew him to be yet' and the way the two of them interact now I'm willing to buy that. Some good chemistry building between these four.

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I think both timelines are fudging around these two established things 1. Dead Doctor was 200 years older than The Doctor... That's a lot of leeway time for Hookups. 2. River was convinced in the last episode that when she kissed the Doctor it should not have been that Doctor's first time. She is totally shocked he swears it was the first time. Also The Doctor and River synced diaries in the season premiere so it would seem, considering they made an issue about that and the the kiss that we are supposed to weigh her POV of the timeline as correct.

 

So... neither of those timelines take into account that Time is presently fubared.

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Another thought re: Tardis/Amy baby... to make a Tardis work, which historically is a quasi-biological and mechanical combo technology, the Tardis gets Time Lord DNA merged into it. So Astro-Girl's regeneration could be explained thru this process.

 

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Tardis

 

It also would be a neat way to bring back a dead or MIA time lord because we don't know who was merged with The Doctor's Tardis.

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I think both timelines are fudging around these two established things 1. Dead Doctor was 200 years older than The Doctor... That's a lot of leeway time for Hookups. 2. River was convinced in the last episode that when she kissed the Doctor it should not have been that Doctor's first time. She is totally shocked he swears it was the first time.

 

I still think that it's because she realises that was her last kiss and that her relationship with him won't be the same again. Also that the day she fears most is coming much much sooner than she wants.

 

Also The Doctor and River synced diaries in the season premiere so it would seem, considering they made an issue about that and the the kiss that we are supposed to weigh her POV of the timeline as correct.

I think the 'two' doctors both syncing their diaries was more of an exposition point to get it across that this is a younger Doctor that emerges from the toilet.

 

Technically this meeting with the older doctor isn't a 'true meeting' as he is out of his time and interfering in his own time stream. I don't think the doctor really would have spent 200 years away form Amy + River etc, he is coming backwards from a future time to set events in motion.

 

But yeah this timeline is completely mental with 'what ifs' and 'whys'

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Your expo about the kiss and diary syncing has merit, but I still have to side with it's to give us a basis of comparison. If the story has nothing true for us to latch onto then it isn't constructed in a viewer friendly way. It will be convoluted. There has to be something concrete. Usually it's the Doctor, his perception is gold, but I hold fast that the key in this story is River's perception.

 

The diary syncing and her insistence that this particular Doctor should have hooked up with her is, IMHO, key to this tale.

 

Afterthought: unless I recall wrong, the 200 years older thing was first mentioned by River and it's only realized once he's dead. So that is another piece of the puzzle which is delivered to the viewer via River. The way the story is being constructed it appears that this time it is River that has a gold perception of time/space.

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Still can't agree on the kiss. Yes she expects him to have kissed her, but thats only because she expects their relationship to continue further on. If thats the first time he has kissed her then she realises the relationship is over. Not that it's a Doctor she doesn't know/in the wrong timeline

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What it essentially means is that the Doctor broke the rules. During their relationship (his future, her past) he must tell her "the first time we kissed you...." giving her some clue. We know he doesn't tell her how she dies, but he does give her her own sonic screwdriver that he has modified.

 

What I want to know is has the 200 year older Doctor had the relationship yet or not. I know we are supposed to suspect she is the Impossible Astronaut and he is the Very Good Man, but I don't see how shed be in prison in the 51st century for shooting him in 1969.

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I don't think he has to break the rules on the kiss, she can tell from his reaction:

 

'That's not the first time we've done that'

'Yes actually, it is'

 

Which means thats the last time she will kiss him from her POV.

 

I do wonder about the older doctor as well. Surely he must have done some of the adventures with her, it's just a question of when does his timeline split with the one that we will see. Obviously he won't die so when does the moment of change occur? When does he decide not to run and instead to face up to what happens?

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