Official Doctor Who New Series Discussion (spoilers)

[Tank]

I think there is more to River Song than meets the eye.

And Torch-- your Master theories are made up silliness! How do you know Amy doesn't stay with the Doctor for 50 years, and in time learns to fly the Tardis and then teaches River? Huh? HUH!?

 

I think River is The Doctor's daughter.

[UK Legend Killa]

That would be awesomes.

[The Human Torch]

The Doctor's daughter daughter or his female clone that he dubbed as being his daughter (who was actually Doc 5's IRL daughter)? [wanted to fit the word daughter in one more time. Was only able to do it in this explanatory way. LOL

 

Either way that'd be neat.

 

Will take some nice explaining either way too. Even in the clone's case, because while we've met her already when she regenerated she stayed "her". And so if River is a regen of her then a minor expo has to be laid down in at least one dialogue exchange.

 

Let's see... so given this Doctor's Daughter = River idea then who's the Mama?! Well if there is one, in the clone's case there wouldn't be. So is it Amy? Rose? Donna? Here's an idea. Maybe River is Rose and Doc 10's daughter. But the daughter of non-Time Lord Doc 10 that gets trapped in that other universe with Rose. "But that universe is blocked off! SEALED!" You say. Well yeah, true. It is or WAS anyway. Perhaps these cracks in Doc 11 and Amy's story have something to do with this. We already know that Amy doesn't remember things that the Doc thinks she should. Maybe the twist for the season is that the barriers between the universes are broken, unsealed and that Doc 11 accidentally slid over to this other universe during the Tardis crash and his regeneration. Oooo... maybe the Tardis crashing was part of the cause of these cracks being created too. So yeah, River could conceivable be written to be Doc 10's and Rose's grown up daughter. The ginger hair can even tie into Non-Time Lord Doc 10 being part of himself and a little bit of Donna! Wibbly wobbly, timey whimey... it all wraps together nicely.

[Tank]

I like her being Rose and the human Doc 10's daughter!

[UK Legend Killa]

Isn't she a bit far in the future for that to happen? She seems to travel in non-Time Lord ways (ie in a single time stream) and the Forest of the Dead stuff was quite far into the future wasn't it? She could conceivably be dumped somewhere in time but that would take a lot of explaining!

[Tank]

I think both the Byzantium and the Library were in the 50-something century. There's hasn't been much indication she time travels on her own.

[UK Legend Killa]

Plus she keeps meeting the Doctor in 'the wrong order' which is obviously a linear order for her, but not for him.

 

The first meeting is going to be interesting!

[The Human Torch]

It's not linear for either of them. Otherwise she'd be Zombie River Song in this episode.

 

We really have nothing to go on about how her timeline/time travel is working. She obviously is a time traveler however, and not just because it's be established she hangs with the Doctor... she's a great Tardis pilot and someone else taught her how to do it.

 

BTW jumping back to the Doctor's Daughter = River concept... how great would it be if that someone else that taught her how to use a Tardis was Human Doc 10? Seriously? A man of his genius. Everything that was the Doctor, that was a Time Lord, just smashed into a Human shell. A man of his ability and need for survival stranded in a parallel universe. Oh how great would it be for Tennant to come back in a special, River gets explained to be his daughter, who he taught how to to fly the Tardis after he has somehow managed to get a hold of one or BUILD one and in that building/reobtaining of one Human Doc 10 finally figured out all of the Tardis quirks... I mean seriously what else was he going to do in his lifespan other than share it out with Rose?! So out of necessity, survival (perhaps that parallel universe was being attacked) Human Doc 10 creates/obtains his own Tardis and leaves the parallel dimension, taking his daughter River and wife Rose with him.

[Tank]

It's not linear for either of them. Otherwise she'd be Zombie River Song in this episode.

 

Technically it's linear for both of them, from their own points of view.

 

but for her, it goes like this:

 

Meets the Doctor for the first time. ("her doctor," which would be 12th, 13th, or 14th)

 

Has an adventure with the Doctor at the Bone Meadows. (mentioned in The Time of Angels)

 

then and/or

 

Has a picnic with the Doctor at Asgard. (mentioned in Silence in the Library)

 

She is then no longer in the company of the doctor, and does something that ends her up in prison.

 

Breaches the Byzantium and is rescued by the 11th Doctor in the 51st century (The Time of Angels)

 

River Song and the Doctor are at the crash landing of the Byzantium. (The Time of Angels)

 

they part ways again

 

another doctor (unclear which generation) crosses paths with her and they travel to the End of the Universe... though I thought that is where he went with Martha and found the MAster... (mentioned in Silence in the Library)

 

The Doctor, with a new haircut and a suit, visits River Song and takes her to see the Singing Towers of Darillium. He gives her his Sonic Screwdriver. (mentioned in Silence in the Library, likely to be "her" doctor)

 

they part ways again.

 

Still in the 51st century, River tries to send "her" Doctor a message via the Psychic paper, asking him to come to the Library. (Silence in the Library)

 

The 10th Doctor answers her request and meets River Song for the first time from his POV

 

River proves to the Doctor how important she will be to him by whispering his true name in his ear. (Silence in the Library)

 

Sacrifices herself to save the Doctor and the Library. (DW: Forest of the Dead)

 

The Doctor beams River Song from a Neural Relay in her sonic screwdriver into the Library's Data Core. (DW: Forest of the Dead)

 

River Song's brainwaves live on in the virtual world inside the Data Core, (DW: Forest of the Dead)

 

What I think would be crazy interesting, is if this back and forth, River was actually there when the Doctor eventually dies. So thanks to time travel, they are both there for the other's death.

 

We really have nothing to go on about how her timeline/time travel is working. She obviously is a time traveler however, and not just because it's be established she hangs with the Doctor... she's a great Tardis pilot and someone else taught her how to do it.

 

Right-- I meant that I don't think she's travelling around through time like the Doctor. I think her trips have been limited to when she was with him. It seems rare for the Doctor to leave companions where he found them (sorry Amy), in fact I think Martha and Donna are the only ones who went home. But the fact is, the two times we've seen River, she was in the 51st century. So while the firt time we saw her at The Library was later in her life, it's within a decade of the Byzantium crash.

[The Human Torch]

Great post, Tank.

 

It's good to see it laid out like that.

 

I hope we see a lot more of her and not just the second part of this tale. I'm totally in love with the possibilities her character is presenting and I like the actress too (which is always a plus).

[Tank]

Only problem is, they need to do it soon cause she's going to start showing her age soon!

[Ryn]

Oh how great would it be for Tennant to come back in a special, River gets explained to be his daughter, who he taught how to to fly the Tardis after he has somehow managed to get a hold of one or BUILD one and in that building/reobtaining of one Human Doc 10 finally figured out all of the Tardis quirks...

Lookie:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un47J4vsGqI

[groove terminator]

i like that alternate ending but at the same time it would have too many people wanting DT back too soon

[The Human Torch]

HOLY ****, RYN! THAT IS AWESOMESAUCE!

 

****ing fantastic!!! That fact that they have that filmed means they can use it and it not be a retcon or lame edition. The seed is planted. It can be played off as "something we didn't notice before". They can use that as the opening teaser to a special episode just for Human Doc 10 and Family meeting whatever generation of Doctor exists at that time. But despite what Tank said about needing to do it soon, I'm not so sure. I don't think we need to see grown up River Song with her parents Human Doc 10 or Rose. I think we can wait a couple seasons and then do a story with Human Doc, Rose and River being young. We They could do it so that River is as old as whatever time has passed since that episode... so they could have her as young as 3 or what would be neater as old as 7 or 8. This would be a spectacular special for like Doc 11's third or fourth season, it could even wait until we get a Doc 12.

 

In the meantime we can still have some adult River episodes!

[Dom]

But the daughter of non-Time Lord Doc 10 that gets trapped in that other universe with Rose. "But that universe is blocked off! SEALED!" You say.

 

Psh, easy to get past that. Didn't they say that universe was closed off permanently the first time? Not to mention the times the Daleks/the Master/whoever are "totally destroyed!" only to return the next season.

[Tank]

Dr. Who is worse than the X-Men when it comes to "dead/forever/the end"

 

And Torch-- I only meant that Alex Kingston isn't going to be getting any younger, and we've seen her death technically. She can't keep playing the part for a decade and have it be believable.

[The Human Torch]

Oh yeah, duh. Valid point.

[UK Legend Killa]

That clip just made me remember how much I ****ing hate Catherine Tate.

 

It would be kinda cool for all this to pan out, but also amazingly gay at the same time. 'Oooo I'm actually the daughter of the alternate you that got in with Rose in the parallel universe' kinda has fanfic written all over it. I would rather it be her that causes something big to happen at the end of the series (as long as Pond doesn't end up dying)

 

Thats another thing that has erked me about these last few seasons: No real carry over whatsoever

 

Series 1: Everyone is new

Series 2: New Doctor

Series 3: New companion

Series 4: New companion

Series 5: New Doctor and companion

 

I hope they keep both Smith and Gillan in the main roles for Season 6 at least. Add another companion, that would be fine, just at least keep these two together for a while.

[The Human Torch]

It would be kinda cool for all this to pan out, but also amazingly gay at the same time. 'Oooo I'm actually the daughter of the alternate you that got in with Rose in the parallel universe' kinda has fanfic written all over it. I would rather it be her that causes something big to happen at the end of the series (as long as Pond doesn't end up dying)

 

Maybe both is happen-Ning at the same time.[/forrest gump]

 

Thats another thing that has erked me about these last few seasons: No real carry over whatsoever

 

Series 1: Everyone is new

Series 2: New Doctor

Series 3: New companion

Series 4: New companion

Series 5: New Doctor and companion

 

I hope they keep both Smith and Gillan in the main roles for Season 6 at least. Add another companion, that would be fine, just at least keep these two together for a while.

 

The reason they have had ALL-NEW Syndrome is because Davies explained he liked to "restart" for each season. Basically each season starts with an origin-like intro to the series where the audience is tagged to the new companion and discovering the series thru them. But yeah, while I can understand the need for a bit of that each season it is slightly annoying that only Rose has been the main thread since the series relaunched in 2005.

[FFfreak]

BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG flaw with the whole 'river is daughter of anyone resembling DT'. She said to him in silence in the library 'so this is what you look like now' and talked about not seeing his face that shape ever before. Surely if she knew human doc, she'd know the face?!

[FFfreak]

OH! and i thought this last episode was the best in the new series so far. i havnt cared much for episodes 2 and 3, and the first one was good, but this one was brilliant!

 

Me and my friends have a theory that they're on the wrong side of the crack in reality... but havnt thought about it much further than that.

[UK Legend Killa]

Thats another thing that has erked me about these last few seasons: No real carry over whatsoever

 

Series 1: Everyone is new

Series 2: New Doctor

Series 3: New companion

Series 4: New companion

Series 5: New Doctor and companion

 

I hope they keep both Smith and Gillan in the main roles for Season 6 at least. Add another companion, that would be fine, just at least keep these two together for a while.

 

The reason they have had ALL-NEW Syndrome is because Davies explained he liked to "restart" for each season. Basically each season starts with an origin-like intro to the series where the audience is tagged to the new companion and discovering the series thru them. But yeah, while I can understand the need for a bit of that each season it is slightly annoying that only Rose has been the main thread since the series relaunched in 2005.

So basically he wants to sell more dolls. A restart after every season doesn't have to come in the form of new characters. Argh he is such a tard

[Dom]

That clip just made me remember how much I ****ing hate Catherine Tate.

 

 

 

Ugh, yah. I thought she was the worst ****ing companion he's had.

[FFfreak]

i liked her :-/

[The Human Torch]

I also liked Donna.

 

BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG flaw with the whole 'river is daughter of anyone resembling DT'. She said to him in silence in the library 'so this is what you look like now' and talked about not seeing his face that shape ever before. Surely if she knew human doc, she'd know the face?!

 

Shot through the heart, And you're to blame... [/bon jovi]

 

So that idea is done then. Ah well.

 

Kudos for recalling that dialogue though!