Official Doctor Who New Series Discussion (spoilers)

[The Human Torch]

Isn't Doc 12 going to be the crazy one? I could have sworn this was canon, but perhaps not. Anyway, I thought that Doc 12 has something happen that makes him Manic Depressive+++ almost evil in his choices. At the very least wrong in his choices. Wrong in the way Tennant was in Water of Mars plus more on that.

[UK Legend Killa]

Where did that come from?

[The Human Torch]

I'm pretty sure it was from one of the older storylines in years past. Pretty sure the Doc at the time meets up with himself from the future, but at the time he doesn't realize it is himself and that future self is all screwed up and it turns out he is Doc 12.

[Gman]

You are thinking of The Valeyard from Doc 6 and Trial of a Timelord. From Wikipedia:

 

"It was then revealed that the Valeyard was, in fact, the Doctor himself — or rather, a distillation of the Doctor's evil side, a potential dark version who might exist around his twelfth and final incarnation. This concept is similar to the ethereal "Watcher" that manifested itself to bridge the gap between his fourth and fifth incarnations (Logopolis). However, in the novelisation of the story the Master states "The Valeyard, Doctor, is your penultimate reincarnation... Somewhere between your twelfth and thirteenth regeneration" implying that the Valeyard is the thirteenth incarnation of the Doctor. The Twin Dilemma revealed that Time Lords do have a thirteenth regeneration, but because there normally is not a fourteenth incarnation using this last regeneration is generally fatal for a Time Lord."

 

It's interesting, I don't remember the 13th regeneration line from The Twin Dilema. That just came out not too long ago on DVD and I watched it not long after I bought it. I'll have to watch it again and see if I can spot that line.

[The Human Torch]

Yeah, that's it! Well done, G.

[Tank]

The Watcher never made any sense to me. Seems like if he was needed for the regeneration, he'd be there for all of them.

 

Anyway, has it ever been made clear if Timelords get 13 LIVES or 13 REGENERATION cycles? Like does Hartnell count as one of the thirteen, or does Troughton officially start the clock?

 

Not that it matters given that The Master has shown you can live beyond them.

[The Human Torch]

Yeah they can write some explanation to override the regen limit, no problem.

 

But as to when it starts counting: I think it starts counting with Troughton. As that would be the first regeneration. And with the phrasing always being '13 regenerations' I'd have to believe it's supposed to be read literally as that. So I believe it's 14 LIVES, 13 REGENERATIONS. Another way to say it would be 14 Incarnations, 13 Regenerations... as Troughton was the 2nd Incarnation of the Doctor. So we're on the 11th Incarnation now, which means before they have to really worry about rewriting the regen rule for the Doctor we have three more castings to go.

[Gman]

 

Anyway, has it ever been made clear if Timelords get 13 LIVES or 13 REGENERATION cycles? Like does Hartnell count as one of the thirteen, or does Troughton officially start the clock?

 

Not that it matters given that The Master has shown you can live beyond them.

 

It was never clear what number Hartnell was until The Five Doctors. It was that story that officially established Hartnell as Number 1. The number of regenerations, 12 (13 incarnations), was clearly established during The Deadly Assassin (Doc 4) and again emphasized during the opening of the TV movie.

[The Human Torch]

Just started watching the BBC America version of the 11th Hour... the episode has been edited differently. In the food cravings scene different takes seem to have been used. The Doctor asks for an apple, gets it. Hates it. Asks for yogurt. Gets it. Hates it. Then it goes to Amy saying, "I've got carrots. Want some carrots?" And the Doctor pronouncing she's insane to offer carrots and he immediately goes to the fridge to get fish sticks and custard. The bread and butter, the beans and bacon are all gone. Shame... the extended scene played much better imo. Then a bit later the goodbye scene between Young Amy and the Doctor is edited. The Doctor's "Am I people? Do I even look like people?" / his promise to return is cut out.

 

Hmm.

 

[checks the length of the episode]

 

Yep! It's been edited for time on BBC America. It's almost 10 minutes shorter.

[Gman]

Bah! Even though I HATED that scene, I was happy that BBC America is airing the series now. I thought that editing crap was over with when we got rid of the SyFy bastardizations. Guess, BBC America is doing it now too...To bad...

[The Human Torch]

Yeah, this editing is pretty much solidifying my resolve to watch the BBC streams via torrent /or download.

 

 

Anyway, has it ever been made clear if Timelords get 13 LIVES or 13 REGENERATION cycles? Like does Hartnell count as one of the thirteen, or does Troughton officially start the clock?

 

Not that it matters given that The Master has shown you can live beyond them.

 

It was never clear what number Hartnell was until The Five Doctors. It was that story that officially established Hartnell as Number 1. The number of regenerations, 12 (13 incarnations), was clearly established during The Deadly Assassin (Doc 4) and again emphasized during the opening of the TV movie.

 

Thanks for the clarification, G! So 13 regenerations it is. Which means if I counted right we're on the 11th Incarnation, 10th Regeneration.

[Pong Messiah]

Thanks for the clarification, G! So 13 regenerations it is. Which means if I counted right we're on the 11th Incarnation, 10th Regeneration.

Not to be an SOL, but it's 12 regenerations and 13 incarnations.

 

Though some Timelords have more, it's just that if you try to regenerate past 12, you might be in for a nasty surprise -- turn psycho/evil, or worse, regenerate into nothing at all, because there's no incarnation there (this is from the Colin Baker "Trial of a Time Lord" season).

 

So 12 is the "safe" number (unless you want to posses somebody else's body), but in theory, a Timelord might be able to regenerate many more times. Regenerations can also be handed out by the council like candy (I believe the Master was once offered an entire set of regenerations if he'd agree to save the Doctor).

 

If the show is still popular when The Doctor has passed his final "safe" regeneration, it'll be super interesting to see what road the writers take. I'm assuming possession or risking turning into Valeyard is out...

 

[The Human Torch]

LOL You are totally right and I knew that when I posted. I used the wrong word. LOL

[Ryn]

I think it should've been celery rather than carrots.

[Boba Sweat]

might be a silly question, but do you get ads on bbc america? (you dont here)

 

the episodes 50 mins long, but your average"hour long" american tv show is only about 40mins so they can squeeze ads in. sounds like what they've done here

[The Human Torch]

Yep, Boba, BBC America is riddled with commercials. That is exactly why it was edited to fit the timeslot.

 

I think it should've been celery rather than carrots.

 

Totally! That would have been AWESOME. Absolutely would have tied right into why the Doctor would think it was insane to eat... to him it's a flower you wear. LOL Well done, Ryn.

[Tank]

Mildly off-topic. It's blatantly obvious that the synth lead in Muse's Uprising is a total homage to Dr. Who, right?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog

[The Human Torch]

^ I'd say so! I think that beat would acceptable as a theme. I'd want a bit more bombast (and no lyrics, of course), but yeah that's neat.

 

Just watched Victory of the Daleks with my wife and we felt it was fun. imo the weakest of three episodes thus far, but good. I enjoyed the colorful Daleks. The bestester evar things for me were the Space Spitfires. Circling back to the music video... Space Spitfires would be a neat band name.

[UK Legend Killa]

Those angels are still ****ing scary.

 

I'm liking the interaction between Song and the new Doctor. Seems a bit ominous though!

[Boba Sweat]

Mildly off-topic. It's blatantly obvious that the synth lead in Muse's Uprising is a total homage to Dr. Who, right?

 

 

 

the last 3 songs on their album "the resistance" (exogeneis: symphony parts 1,2&3) are clearly early star trek homage's/rip offs as well

[Gman]

Yeah, there wasn't much for me to like about this episode. Amy seemed to know waaaay too much about the Doctor (You're not like that, you never say that), yet it's only thier third adventure together. I thought maybe some time had passed between the Daleks and this, but her comment about seeing a planet next threw that theory out the window.

 

I don't much remember the Doc 10's interaction with Song, but he seemed more acceptable of her last time around. So, even though Doc 11's personality may be different, his acceptance of her should be the same, right? I dunno, angels were scary but kinda a rushed not making much sense storywise episode...

[UK Legend Killa]

Well thats why it is a two parter isn't it.....

 

And if anything The Doctor was more suspicious of her last time around. I think seeing her die for him kind of warmed him to the idea of having her around. I don't think Amy was too bad in this one, she was more taking the piss out of The Doctor because Song knew so much. I didn't get many vibes of her knowing him too well really.

 

Also the Tardis scene was quite hilarious. 'Where's the noise? I like the noise' 'It isn't supposed to make that noise, you always leave the brakes on!' Some good stuff

[groove terminator]

i enjoyed this episode, i prob don't look at it as deep as you guys

i just want to enjoy and be entertain by the doctor

 

loved the parking of the tardis, his reaction to when river song basically said she was taught by someone other than the doctor

i dunno i just really enjoyed the way matt smith plays the doctor, DT got me into the series but MS is has taken the ball and is really just running with it in my view!

[The Human Torch]

I haven't seen this week yet, but I've come to be told that River Song suggests someone else taught her to operate the Tardis or a Tardis.

 

Thoughts:

 

1. When Doc 10 meets River Song it gets suggested that eventually the two meet and trust each other to such lengths that the Doctor of that future time tells River his super secert handshake and then provides her figuratively with a magic decoder ring that lets her know his name for realz.

 

2. I also feel that in that meeting it is hinted in this future time of eventual trust and bonding the two bump uglies hard and often, with the Doctor liking it so much he puts a ring on it.

 

3. In this new episode Doc 11 is meeting River Song for the first time since the last first time which actually was the first time for him period. And that this is the first time he's seeing River after she died dead dead dead and then was photocopied into Caprica's Holoband network in order to live long and prosper... virtually.

 

4. In this new episode River lays the verbal smack down on the Doctor, essentially explaining to him how to fly that Tardis he stole 900 odd years ago. She then says that someone else taught her how to do it.

 

5. The someone could be; A. The Doctor. Or more specifically a future regeneration of the Doctor. B. another Time Lord. C. The Master. "The Master?!" You say. "Poppycock! You haven't even seen the episode and I have and that wasn't suggested in it." You say. Well that's true, but wait.

 

6. Given everything we know about River and the Doctor to this point it could be plausible that she meets up with the Master too. Also given how damn close we are lead to believe River and this future version of the Doctor are supposed to be it's odd that she, he or both end it or at the very least take a break from each other. "What do you mean?" You ask. Well, think about it. She's not with her Doctor when she meets and then dies in Doc 10's story. They are seperated and by suggestion not on accident.

 

So in conclusion: It's possible that River Song is a Time Lord groupie.

[UK Legend Killa]

That all does sound plausible and is the route they will probably go down but there were a couple of other exchanges between River and other characters that seem to suggest she has some other motives for being with the Doctor. Things like:

 

'Does he know who you are yet?' 'No he doesn't. Lets keep it that way, I don't want to go back to prison'

 

I think she may indeed meet up with The Master or other time Lords. It makes sense, but the 'I was taught by the best, shame you were busy that day' might just have been a bit more banter due to how proud The Doctor was looking at the moment in time!

 

It is going to be a very intriguing arc thats for sure