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My take on the farewells is that this time it took time for his body to die, just like in the caves of androzani where he is slowly dying after the first 5 mins of the episode.

 

But yeah it was convenient! But can we just give the new guy a chance before calling for his head? Daniel Craig wasn't a popular choice for Bond if I remember rightly...

 

As long as we are talking about the regeneration, I don’t think getting stuck with slow acting plant poison is the same as getting pumped full of billions of 1.21 jigawatts of radiation. But, I like that fact that Doc 5 is brought up. At the end of “Caves,†Doc 5’s face and hands are bloody (literally) messes. His hands especially look like fresh hamburger (a pretty effective scene I might add). But, Doc 10’s face gets healed before the regeneration?!? What?!? So, if his body is healing itself, then why the need to regenerate? Oh, I know! So, DT get look all pretty and serious while he’s goes gallivanting about observing and helping all his, wait only his, current incarnation of friends. Why didn’t he go back in time to Scotland and help Jamie with some of his battles too?

 

Finally, the regeneration itself: The Doc’s 1st, 5th, 6th, and 9th regeneration all happened inside his TARDIS. Why is it that this particular regeneration was burning and exploding everything in sight? Oh, I know, cuz there were no companions that could have been harmed and the idiot story writers (is that you, RTD?!?) wanted a new interior.

 

Bah, how many ways do I hate “The End of Time?â€

 

And Tennant wasn't a popular choice to take over from Eccleston either.

 

I do think we might start to get a Tom Baker effect now. Where lots of people idolise Tennant so much they can't see anybody else playing The Doctor and so hate anybody new.

 

And no, I don’t fear Mat Smith because he’ll be different that DT. I fear him because he’ll be THE SAME! My fears were confirmed when after the regeneration he went through the list JUST LIKE DT after his regeneration, complained about not being “ginger,†JUST LIKE DT after his regeration, was acting foolhardy, JUST LIKE DT after his regeneration. My original hypothesis of MS being cast not as a continuation of the Doctor, but as a replacement for DT is coming true. Have you seen the previews for next season? Seems like Doc 10 played by a different actor to me. He even dresses like him but with a bow tie!

 

No, I wish we see a 40ish 50ish year old Tom Baker or Jon Pertwee type Doc again. But it seems like the new usual gang of idiots, are more concerned about satisfying the fan girl demographic than the Doctor Who lovers out there.

 

gonna be THAT guy again... anyone seen it available online?

 

Here ya go mah brother:

 

http://www.casttv.com/shows/doctor-who

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That, and pretty much this:

The 'new chick' had already been set up.   Lot's of pretty spot on fan theories regarding how Clara is a meta-textual analogy for the show itself. She's born on Nov 23, the show's original air date. S

That reads like HuffPo had an embargoed interview they ran early. Somebody's getting fired.

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And Tennant wasn't a popular choice to take over from Eccleston either.

 

I do think we might start to get a Tom Baker effect now. Where lots of people idolise Tennant so much they can't see anybody else playing The Doctor and so hate anybody new.

 

And no, I don’t fear Mat Smith because he’ll be different that DT. I fear him because he’ll be THE SAME! My fears were confirmed when after the regeneration he went through the list JUST LIKE DT after his regeneration, complained about not being “ginger,†JUST LIKE DT after his regeration, was acting foolhardy, JUST LIKE DT after his regeneration. My original hypothesis of MS being cast not as a continuation of the Doctor, but as a replacement for DT is coming true. Have you seen the previews for next season? Seems like Doc 10 played by a different actor to me. He even dresses like him but with a bow tie!

 

No, I wish we see a 40ish 50ish year old Tom Baker or Jon Pertwee type Doc again. But it seems like the new usual gang of idiots, are more concerned about satisfying the fan girl demographic than the Doctor Who lovers out there.

I wasn't directing that at you! More at the fifteen million girls who I know that absolutely love DT.

 

I agree in that he may be much too similar to Tennant, but I think that is one thing that Moffat will be wary about and try to remove as much as he can. We have to give him time rather than jump on every little thing that appears and bitch about it! Remember that RTD will have written that entire regeneration sequence and the aftermath of it. Theres always going to be action in DW, with lots of running about because thats the way that TV is made these days.

 

I'd love a more Troughton/Pertwee/T-Bake eqse Doctor, but that won't bring the viewers in. And if that doesn't happen then the show will stop altogether. That is a much worse fate than having two young energetic Doctors in a row.

 

Back to things from last night:

 

WTF was with turning the Time Lords into seemingly evil beings? They were never really alligned to either side unless it came to being against the Daleks or Cybermen, or 'keeping the temporal flow together' (or some other such nonsensical type of thing). I think that this show needs the Time Lords as a connection to that higher order. At the moment we just get one man flying about seemingly set the world to rights, when it's not always been like that previously.

 

Also Dalton = Rassilon? I think I heard that correctly at the end. I assume that for the Time War they brought Rassilon back down from his higher plane of existance (or whatnot) in order to fight.

 

From the preview it looks like the Weeping Angels will make a return as well. I liked the connection between the Time Lords and the Angels that was made in brief during the episode too.

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I both liked and disliked things about the episode. Most of it, I thought was okay. However, the regeneration bothered me. Mostly because of all the explody crap (I mean wtf???), but also because I felt the effect was severely diminished b the ridiculously long drawn out ending. Skip all that, and have him regenerate with just Wilf there and it would have been so much better. And more memorable. We already had the shoehorning everyone in at the end of season 4, we don't need it here as well! Particularly the very forced line about Martha being married to Mickey. What happened to her doctor guy?

 

I love DT (mostly because he is pretty and has such expressive eyes), but I'll give this new guy a chance. I didn't like DT at first either. And Tom Baker remains my undoubted favourite.

 

UK, I heard Rassilon as well, which kinda intrigued me. The two holdouts interested me as well. One was the woman we saw, but she clearly meant something to The Doctor - mother maybe? The other never showed his face - could it have been the Doctor himself, or is that too conspiracy theory like?

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Thanks for the link Gman, but damn I think your hate is running HIGH. I can see your complainst for the first half, but nothing in this second half struck me as all that bad. Seemed very WHO to me.

 

random thoughts:

• RTD watched Star Wars recently!

• the woman time lord that visited Wilf-- either the Doctor's mother, or Donna... maybe both

• we never saw the master die

• I feel sorry for anyone RTD has ever broken up with. he probably sends them 342345 goodbye notes.

 

As for Matt Smith-- I'm certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm one of those people that always likes the incumbent Doctor. I was way bitter about Eccelson and wanted to hate Tennant, once they stopped writing him the same he quickly became my favorite. It is interesting though that regenerations tend to keep getting younger.

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I don't think they can get younger than MS. Once MS leaves I think it will be a fresh idea again to have the Doctor be older or perhaps even a female. Yeah I said it. Why not? I guess it would be a bit weird, but maybe if it was done right.

 

On that thought:

 

Has anyone heard any rumors about the Doctor's Daughter returning? I liked that episode and wouldn't mind seeing that character return. I thought it was specially cool that the actress was actually a Doctor's Daughter too (being that she is Peter Davison's irl daughter).

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Well, my second favorite Doctor has gone bye-bye....wish I had the time to actually watch it, but work is an all-consuming bitch of late.

 

BTW, I know i'll regret asking, but was Piper in this DT send off, and if so, how did they get her character from the alternate earth (and explain what happened to Doctor 2.0)?

 

Reading the comments above...Martha and Mickey? Since when? What happened to her doctor husband-to-be? Or should I chalk this up to the increasingly weak RTD wanting to give joy to the two characters with the biggest cases of unrequited love?

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yeah rose was in it

it was quite well done. he went back and saw here on 1st jan 2005

before they ever met

she had no idea who he was

he was fighting regeneration at this point an she though he was a new year reveller who'd had too much to drink

she just asked if he was alright and wished him happy new year

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Prior to Matt Smith, Peter Davidson was actually the youngest doctor (he was 29 when he was cast I think, while DT was 32 or 33ish)

 

Reading the comments above...Martha and Mickey? Since when? What happened to her doctor husband-to-be? Or should I chalk this up to the increasingly weak RTD wanting to give joy to the two characters with the biggest cases of unrequited love?

 

I think that's pretty much it. It was a one line comment that seemed completely superfluous.

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Okay, my post above was after seeing only Part 1. Thinking about it, I've come to really dislike Season 4's "Journey's End" and a couple of the subsequent adventures and portrayal of the Doctor in them. (Not Tennant's, RTD's I guess. Some things just kinda felt directionless.) However, Part 2 far and away made up for that.

 

Simm's Master was great, even with Sith powers. Menacing, funny, pathetic, and tragic.

 

Rassillon was a great reveal. Were the Time Lords that desperate to win the War to make a deal with the devil? All the hosts and hordes the Doctor listed to the Master would seem so. And Dalton makes it 1000% awesomer.

 

Dunno about the woman Time Lord. Was she the one calling out "Gallifrey falls!"? (The first part of what's said is indecipherable to me.)

 

I'll miss Tennant. He's still my favorite and he gave the best of his last here. Nice coda as well. (As for Matrha and Mickey, I didn't watch Torchwood regularly, but it was mentioned she was on her honeymoon -- presumably to that human doctor -- during that show's "Children of Earth" story arc. Mickey doesn't have seemed to appear in any TW episodes.)

 

This jury's still out Smith, but, admittedly, it's too early to tell.

 

Ain't gonna cry losing the "coral" TARDIS interior.

 

One starkly brilliant thing I've loved with this Doctor is the drumming story device. Simple, but to me, compelling every time.

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I felt that End had flashes of brilliance stashed among steaming piles of bad editing, bad pacing, poor dialogue and needless goodbyes (only Donna and her family needed a resolution, everyone else had theirs in episodes/seasons prior to this). To further my dislike of the needless goodbyes, I felt they were pretentious (I don't recall any other Doctors getting to go a farewell tour) and I felt the goodbyes took away from the Doctor's death. It was too tidy and felt very forced.

 

I've really, really liked Tennant's run as the Doctor and in his run he has had some of the coolest episodes (even mini Charity ones). However I felt Tennat's run failed just about every time it tried to do some grand massive story... they always felt forced. Single episodes were usually great, sometimes awesome. But the multipart big finales always fell flat to me. Not entirely, they usually had flashes of greatness (like the End did), but overall they felt stretched out and forced.

 

As for Matt Smith. His pale skin, eyebrows and hair will probably bug me forever (I'm hoping he gets a makeover), but I enjoyed his glee in crashing.

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Tennant's last episode was pretty good but man did it ever drag on there at the end. Not liking the look of the new Doctor, its like they decided to go for a younger version of Tennant to appeal to the kids.

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I cried like a pathetic lil' baby when the Doctor regenerated (that last line just broke my heart), but i'll give MS a chance. The Doc doesn't have to be dishy like Tennant, but at least get a guy whose face doesn't look like it's made of Silly Putty!

 

As for the good-byes, I enjoyed 2 of them. Donna/Wilf's farewell was sweet, but I enjoyed seeing The Doc visit Joan Redfern's great-grandaughter. I thought that was a welcome surprise (Plus I adore Jessica Hynes!)

 

Side Note: Billie Piper looked odd. Is she wasting away, did she have work done, or are her teeth just growing at a monumental rate?

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Some additional and final points on why I hated TEOT so much:

 

1) Rassilon: Does RTD mean to tell me that the same benevolent and wise Rassilon of The Five Doctors, who warned against hubris and punished those that sought out immortality with cruel, but fitting, justice is the same Rassilon portrayed here? I know that regenerations cause differing personalities to emerge, but core values and thinking remain constant. I guess, except, for when RTD wants to make things convenient for his story.

 

2) Speaking of Rassilon: So the Doctor doesn’t agree with him?!? This is the same Doctor incarnation that meted out his own Rassilon style of justice in Human Nature. Seems like he learned his lesson very well during The Five Doctors. But, one of his previous incarnations didn’t agree with the (supposedly) extreme actions of Rassilon during The Time War only to copy them later on in Human Nature and Waters of Mars? Then, go back to disagreeing with him during TEOT? You think me a moron, RTD, and I’m glad you’re gone.

 

3) More spitting: In Part 2 Matt Smith hocks a loogey onto the TARDIS console as it’s flying apart. (Right after he exclaims, “I’m crashing.†About the 1:12 mark). Let’s hope this director (Euros Lyn) doesn’t return either. The writing and the interpretation of the writing is just as awful.

 

I know most of you disagree with me on all my rantings against these episodes. I don’t think I’m being big on Hate, Tank. But, I’m a fan boy, I know my DW history and the universe it operates in and I just didn’t see RTD honoring that universe these past couple seasons. As I’ve said repeatedly, I hope I’m wrong on Matt Smith. I really do…

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Not liking the look of the new Doctor, its like they decided to go for a younger version of Tennant to appeal to the kids.

 

I've been calling him "Doogie Howser" :p WAY too young, my brother argued that Martha was a young doctor as well, but that's different. I do have to really see him in action still, so I suppose I should hold off of age discrimination until I see if he can pull the role off.

 

Re: the goodbyes - I don't watch the spin-offs, so I was surprised about Martha and Mickey, and liked it for that little tidbit. Beyond that... it did just seem like they wanted to get all of the spin-offs together. Eh. It wasn't the best DW episode/storyline ever, but Tennant's performance and the transition to the new Doctor factor made it worth the watch for me.

 

Re: Billie Piper... yeah, I didn't recognize her at first. wtf?

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Ryn,

 

I think RTD had Rassilon confused with Omega. If that had been Omega, it would have made a ton more sense. But, in the original series, both Omega and Rassilon had already achieved altered states of existence without physical bodies. So, RTD was still confused and still an idiot.

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[playing Devil's Advocate]

 

Perhaps this was Rassilon, being a time lord/time traveler, prior to his death bed and thus prior to his enlightened look at immortality in The Five Doctors.

 

Or

 

Perhaps this was the real Rassilon and not the legend. And the real Rassilon was first defeated and then banished at some point, never learning his lesson. During this banishment the Time Lord hierarchy then concocted a story explaining his demise and included a moral to his life as a example for the rest of their culture. Then during the Time War the Time Lords are so desperate that one of them decides to reveal the truth or uncovers the truth about Rassilon's "demise". The Time Lords then decide to make a deal with the devil and bring back Rassilon from where ever he had been banished too... most of them hoping the man would live up to the legend, but Rassilon doesn't and his evil ways and charm sway too many in the Time Lord culture and the end result is what we see the Time Lords being in TEOT.

 

As to the Doctor's erratic behavior in regards to Rassilon like justice... perhaps the Doctor finally reached that point where philosophically speaking he just said, "Oh. Duh." And so he decided not to cross that line again.

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io9.com has a great write up on why it COULD be THE Rassilon.

 

When it comes down to it, we're talking about a family friendly show that deals with a 40+YEAR continuity and is actively about alternate timelines/dimensions, super science, regenerations and was never hard and fast with its canonicty or continuity to begin with. To find little things to freak out about is pointless.

 

I still think you're looking to be mad Gman. You're acting like RTD creeped in your window last night and sodomized you or something. Without him, there would be no Dr. Who right now. And while he has his faults, there's the fact that for the most part the revival of the series has been phenomenal under his guidance.

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Thanks for the tip, Tank.

 

http://io9.com/5439138/figuring-out-doctor...ering-mysteries

 

After reading that io9 article and all of the comments I've realized how lackluster some of us here at Nightly have gotten about our geekdom. lol That was some hardcore stuff in there and those comments were ?! wow. They went everywhere in interesting ways too. lol It was like the equivalent of Nightly's Episode II time in there.

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BBC posted a teaser for Matt Smith's season. Lots of neat things shown in that for fans like us that will recognize them (WEEPING ANGELS!). I'm excited, even though I still wish Matt Smith will under go a makeover (including getting a bit of tan). My wife is even excited for the new season and she was so set on Tennant being the bestest best evar that she had previously said she didn't even want to watch the new series.

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All I can say is as much thanks as I have for RTD for bringing Who back, I am so glad he is leaving. So many of hs episodes were so "campy". I am sure Matt Smith will be good, but the key is just having good, well thought out stories.

 

It's true the original series killed the master several times, but he aslo just escaped right at the end many times. Much better than dead and back again.

 

The cool thing about Matt Smith's doctor is that I have a sport coat like the one he will wear in the new series, so that means something, right?

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