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Official Doctor Who New Series Discussion (spoilers)


The Shadow
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It seems like regenerations have gotten more violent as he's gotten closer to the end. If he's restarted that explains the quick transition to Capaldi.

 

Obviously, pre-reboot the FX didn't allow for it to be too extravagant.

 

But Eccelson warned Rose to stay back; Jack told Donna to clear the area, and we saw Tennant direct the energy into to his hand. River used hers to KO some Nazis and of course when Tennant went he took the Tardis out with him.

 

So it didn't happen out of nowhere, all the pieces needed to buy it were there.

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No no. It's not a continuity thing for me. I just don't like the idea of the Doctor choosing to use his next chance at life as a means to end the lives of others --- it feels like a grotesquely aggressive misuse of a beloved part of his iconography that's both an inappropriate choice for the character to make and out of keeping with the tone of the moment itself. Much like Man of Steel choosing to turn Superman's childhood rocket into a bomb in the final act - it takes something beautiful and awesome (in the old sense of the word) and makes it into an act of tawdry violence.

 

Moffat deliberately chooses to use the regeneration scene (a primal moment for any Doctor Who fan and, remember, this is the very first time Moffat has gotten to both kill off a Doctor and bring him back) for this purpose in advance of the obligatory traditional scene that caps the episode. And for what? So he can have a few big explosions in the finale?

 

It doesn't rest easy with me. Maybe the regeneration energy just destroyed the ship and managed to regenerate the Daleks at the same time? I don't know.

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Guest Indymion

 

 

- The "everyone's naked under their clothes" line is one of Gaiman's from The Sandman.

 

 

Also from an old movie called Student Bodies!

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Guest Indymion

Wow, that regen was a bit jarring! Smith and then Bam! Capaldi. I liked his wild-eyed look, he'll be a good fit for the part. Why doesn't he know how to fly the Tardis? Shouldn't he have all the same memories?

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Driver's mentioned it and it is true that a Doctor being confused after a regeneration is not a new thing. I imagine 12 will get his memories back after he takes a moment to just breathe.

 

Afterthought: To go back to the 50th, I have mentioned that the name/title of War Doctor annoyed me. I'm over it. I realized a neat thing about it the other day. Doctor Who / War Doctor ... his initials are the same but flipped.

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Driver's mentioned it and it is true that a Doctor being confused after a regeneration is not a new thing. I imagine 12 will get his memories back after he takes a moment to just breathe.

 

Afterthought: To go back to the 50th, I have mentioned that the name/title of War Doctor annoyed me. I'm over it. I realized a neat thing about it the other day. Doctor Who / War Doctor ... his initials are the same but flipped.

 

The 6th Doctor throttled Peri in his daze, and the 8th Doctor played out the amnesia bit for the majority of the plot of his appearance, so I dare hope they aren't going that route. When Matt first regenerated he forgot the Tardis was crashing at first.

 

And afterthought-- War Doctor is likely how they will label him in marketing material, even though Time of Doctor verified he certainly counted as a Doctor. Or the could go with Captain Grumpy.

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Driver's mentioned it and it is true that a Doctor being confused after a regeneration is not a new thing. I imagine 12 will get his memories back after he takes a moment to just breathe.

 

 

That or it's a reference to the 50th anniversary special. Tennant is the Man Who Regrets and Matt Smith is the Man Who Forgets. Also, during the Christmas Special it had been, what 500+ years that he stuck on Trenzalore without operating Tardis, not to mention he was never that good at it to begin with (according to River, the only reason the Tardis makes that famous sound is because the Doctor leaves the break on).

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Time of the Doctor...

 

Such promise, and it flushed it down the toilet with a deus ex machina resolution (and that is a PERFECT example of the term). Like others, I think it was the regeneration scene that destroyed it. Really Moffat? You had at least two other ways to give the Doctor new regenerations (both of which you wrote), and THIS is what you pulled out your ass? The Time Lords, who had always had a contentious relationship with the Doctor, just GIVE him new regenerations at the last minute. fuck that. I guess it's easier than spending 30 seconds trying to think of another way. Because y'know, that'd involve THOUGHT and CONTINUITY. The horror.

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Not sure it violates continuity; yes, the time lords are usually annoyed with the Doctor to say the least. However anything could be happening on the other side of that crack which made the time lords want to grant regenerations.

 

Rewatched the special recently...

 

Hate the "pop" regen. Hate weaponizing the regen. Dislike this new chick that just was all over the Doc and vice versa, it felt fan fiction forced.

 

Love Handles. Love Granny. Love The Boy Who Waited. Love many little things/choices that Smith, as an actor, did with the moments.

 

Overall I really believe this episode has been brutalized in the editing room, but I have no idea if that is true. Seems like two 40 minute episodes smashed into only 40 minutes.

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That is a really interesting read. Agree with a lot of the comments I have to say. Individually I did not mind the stories at the time, but looking at her story arc in that way really highlights the failings.

 

And the Weeping Angels were such a great idea in Blink - but wasted badly since then, especially in that last story.

 

Hope Capaldi's reign brings us back on track. However (worryingly), there is an interview with Moffat (link below) which indicates that they are going to somehow tie up the actors appearances in The Fires of Pompeii and Torchwood.

I think that has the potential to be bad, but hopefully not. It's an interesting final paragraph that maybe saves it for me...

 

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/capaldis-past-appearances-not-ignored-53407.htm

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It’s easy to gloss over, to just watch and enjoy, but on more careful inspection you find that nothingmeans anything. Everything just gets written over for a bigger speech, more tears, another world/universe saved because the Doctor is brilliant and that’s what he does.

 

That pretty much sums it all up right there.

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I never really worry about continuity with Dr. Who because history is constantly being changed by him or others. Moffat made that clear from his first episode. Technically, right before the 11th met Amy pond everyone on Earth had turned into the master briefly. Amy didn't remember that, or the Daleks stealing the Earth.

 

Name of the Doctor and Time of the Doctor were two episodes apart and the latter undid what the former did. The Doctor's memory is fuzzy because as a timelord he remembers the variations and it's impossible to keep up.

 

As such, I, like the Doctor, just live in the now with the current episode.

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It’s easy to gloss over, to just watch and enjoy, but on more careful inspection you find that nothingmeans anything. Everything just gets written over for a bigger speech, more tears, another world/universe saved because the Doctor is brilliant and that’s what he does.

 

That pretty much sums it all up right there.

 

It sort of does, doesn't it? For me, where I had my "uh oh" moment was when Tennant gave his big "This planet is protected!" speech at the end of 'Christmas Invasion'. While fun it felt, well, not very 'Doctor Who'. I hate myself for even saying that because who am I to say? But it's true. At least not in the way it was composed and delivered. And that general tone has been pretty much sustained since then. I'm really hoping we get something different in the coming 2 seasons but I'm not holding my breath. I thought we'd see massive changes in S5 what with new producer and new Doctor and, really, not that much did change.

 

BTW, I am not slamming the show. This is very much just a personal niggle with me. The show still has a ton of imagination and is a lot of fun. It's just that it's basically a super hero show now. I miss the lost wanderer who can't really work his time ship properly. I miss when the TARDIS wasn't literally a "she"!

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Regarding the regeneration-as-a-weapon thing, I think it would've played better if he'd been transported (as he was doing earlier in the episode) to the Dalek ship. His increasingly violent regens could've been two-fold, destroying the Dalek ship from within and also as a phoenix-like rebirth from that destruction. Clean slate stuff for the future.

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