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Official Doctor Who New Series Discussion (spoilers)


The Shadow
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I don't think that's the route they will go down.

 

More likely IMO that we will see River post-soldier in LKH (maybe we see River's first kiss with The Doctor, a nice role reversal from Day of the Moon) and his last real swansong alongside his River Song. Then later on in the series she is a weapon trained against The Doctor (hence the eyepatch), then he will find her pre-soldier in the forest as Melody, take her to 1969 and give her to The Silence, locking her in a spacesuit, knowing what must come. Somehow he manages to do something to alter his death at the hands of Melody/River as we saw at the beginning of the season and the Ponds go live in their idyllic world.....for now.

 

Something along those lines anyhow. Maybe The Silence steal her, lock her in the spacesuit and get her to kill The Doctor for messing up their existence. They do this by creating/manipulating the whole Army of Clerics into being in order to kill The Doctor, little knowing that they would actually set that whole chain of events into motion.

 

Time-wimey, spacey-wacey.

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That's fair. And most of that, if not all of it can happen with what I proposed.

 

However your idea seems to be disregarding the message of the story so far... The Doctor causes this. Also your idea seems to be disregarding that the Papal Mainframe (the leader of the holy army) spoke with River' voice, albeit a deeper tone.

 

^That I think is a fantastic epiphany, if I do say so myself... you know... considering I proposed it. ;)

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The Papal Mainframe does talk, it's why I said re-check the mid season finale. It's River's voice, albeit deeper. I didn't catch it before, but I was re-watching this weekend and it was clear.

 

Afterthought: It's the scene where the new initiates are being offered to the order and the headbox is being passed around. The Papal Mainframe says something like, "Who is ready to make the sacrifice?" And other stuff.

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She thought Tennant is older than her Doctor at first, then realizes he's younger. The 11th Doctor is now technically older, with River judging older (as said in her debut) by the look in his eyes not physical appearance. He also has new hair. LOL And just on screen wise she has spent the most time with him.

 

I still swear that in the goodbye prison-kiss scene from this season River was expecting The 11th Doctor to kiss her and have already kissed her by that point, so imo from her point of view the physical part of the relationship starts with the 11th Doctor.

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I would assume so, she seems to know exactly what he will do.

 

I think that River will exit by the end of the next series if not this one.

 

Moffat has said that he's "throwing the switch into reverse" for next season and going with mostly standalone episodes rather than heavily following an arc like this year.

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Torch... that made no sense.

 

UKLK-- more so.

 

River recognized him in the library leading up to hear death, but he was younger than she'd ever seen him before-- AND she knows "all" of his faces. That's why I keep thinking that her time as a companion-- maybe as a younger Melody Pong-- happens with an older doctor. It seems like a LOT of stuff has happened between the two of them-- or maybe it happens in the 200 years we know the 11th Doctor still has to live to be the doctor in The Impossible Astronaut.

 

Either way-- at some point in the future, they should get a young actress to play Melody Pond as a companion for the doctor, and at the end of her run ave her regenerate into Alex kingston.

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Torch... that made no sense.

 

UKLK-- more so.

 

River recognized him in the library leading up to hear death, but he was younger than she'd ever seen him before-- AND she knows "all" of his faces. That's why I keep thinking that her time as a companion-- maybe as a younger Melody Pong-- happens with an older doctor. It seems like a LOT of stuff has happened between the two of them-- or maybe it happens in the 200 years we know the 11th Doctor still has to live to be the doctor in The Impossible Astronaut.

 

I have no idea why you're so confused, I agree with all those points. Whether we see those adventures is a whole different kettle of fish (perhaps named Jim). I do believe that 11 is River's doctor. She will see the universe with him, he will teach her things and rescue her from whatever fate Madam Kovarian and her kind have planned for her.

 

Whether River ever truly was 'Melody Pond' (ie she grows up with Amy and Rory) will have to be seen. Can the Doctor get to her while she is still a child, or will we see an indoctrinated (lol) River Song from an early age? We know that River can't die in an upcoming story - unless we see an older version of her that was rescued from the Library (impossible I would think) and that her and The Doctor (whether 11 or 12 or 13) spend a lot of time together.

 

There is also still the issue of the regenerating child from the end of episode 2! I think we all assume that is River right?

 

Either way-- at some point in the future, they should get a young actress to play Melody Pond as a companion for the doctor, and at the end of her run ave her regenerate into Alex kingston.

 

Yup. Yup. Yup.

 

Quite possible if next series will be more 'standalone' adventures than story arc. You can have them zipping around the universe with a big finale where Melody regenerates into River. Unless that's what the Moff already has planned for this season....

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Yeah.

 

River and The Doctor:

 

1) The 10th Doctor meets River in the Library (with the candlestick). ha ha ;)

2) River believes the 10th Doctor is older than her Doctor... until she looks into the 10th Doctor's eyes.

3) River judges The Doctor's age by an impression she gets from his eyes, not from his physical appearance.

4) The 11th Doctor meets River and she checks out his eyes... River is all smiles now.

5) River kisses the 11th Doctor in the prison (with the revolver). ha ha ;)

6) River seems surprised the 11th Doctor hasn't been fresh with her yet.

7) The Dead Doctor (assuming there aren't shenanigans here aka The Flesh) is like 300 years older than the present time 11th Doctor.

8) Finally, out of story leverage, the 11th Doctor has spent the most on screen time with River.

 

All signs point to Matt Smith's 11th Doctor being River's Doctor, but this is a living fiction and so anything can happen.

 

River's life/death:

 

1) River is Amy's and Rory's baby.

2) The Tardis also provides some genetic juice during Amy's pregnancy (the Tardis is less of a parent source, more of a radioactive spider-bite aka Spider-Man's origin).

3) Amy, pregnant with River, is kidnapped.

4) Baby River is kidnapped.

5) Presumably River is the girl in the spacesuit.

6) If #5 is so, River gets lost for an unknown amount of time in the 60s USA.

7) River is trained as a weapon against The Doctor.

8) River kills The Doctor.

9) River serves jail time for, presumably, killing The Doctor.

10) River goes on adventures during her jail sentence.

11) River and The Doctor go on adventures during her jail sentence and possibly prior to it (any time between #5 and #8 has potential).

12) River dies in the Library (with the screwdriver). ha ha ;)

13) The 10th Doctor with help from a future Doctor (via the sonic screwdriver that Future Doctor gives River) "saves" River from death and puts her consciousness into the Library Mainframe.

14) Inside the Library Mainframe's Reality, River is annoyed but lovingly so at The Doctor for saving her from death.

 

As I stated before, because I will swear that Alex Kingston voiced the Papal Mainframe in the mid-season finale... I believe The Doctor inadvertently creates the Holy Army and thus his new greatest enemy. All that mucking about in time, doing good from his point of view, perceived otherwise by different people... in this case River gone mad in the Library "Papal" Mainframe.

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They'd be breaking a Whovian rule there, true... because Eye Patch holds Melody and you're not supposed to touch another you. This rule was re-established with the 9th Doctor when Rose reached out to hold herself as baby. So yeah, even though River is being teased in Eye Patch's costume there has to be an additional explanation for that.

 

With that said though, Eye Patch isn't the Papal Mainframe (if you were leaning in that direction). Eye Patch takes her orders from the Papal Mainframe.

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