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The Next Star Wars


69 replies to this topic

#1
Djo

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Star Wars may not be the biggest thing out there at the moment but what is impressive is that despite the saga being over 25 years old, despite constant criticism and whining amongst critics and some fans, despite claims that some other movie is the "next" Star Wars, the saga continues on its way. It can still bring in the crowds not only in the Cinemas but also in the Museums such as the Powerhouse in Sydney where I had to battle crowds to see the Magic of Myth Exhibition. I don't think anyone can argue that it is not a true Cultural Phenomenon. Oh I hear the naysayers "But it's not as popular as before or it hasn't made as much as some other movies this year". Well good luck to the others. Star Wars will always be the first, the groundbreaker.

The real "next Star Wars" would have to be of a different genre altogether because I just can't see how it could compete otherwise. It would have to grab our collective conscience in the same way Star Wars does. It would have to use groundbreaking movie technology and have a new way of telling a story. The settings will have to be imaginative yet it will have to be familiar enough for us all to relate to and connect with. It will have to appeal to children and adults alike and it will have to be primarily a cinematic experience.

Everywhere we turn, there's Star Wars. From the reference on The Dead Zone when one of the characters said, "that happened a long time ago" and he just had to add "in a galaxy far, far away". The other day I was driving behind a car with a sticker on the back window that said "Jedi". It was in the same style and in the same spot as you would see a "Jesus Loves You" or the Christian fish symbol. It was most likely tongue-in-cheek but the message was clear.

Of course, it doesn't stop there. The crowds at the Powerhouse Museum made me realise that it would take that much of a grasp on the psyche of our culture before a movie series could be called the "Next Star Wars". At the very least, it would have to endure for 25 years and beyond.

For various reasons people tend to think the Prequels should have been the next Star Wars and as such have failed. But they don't have to fulfil the criteria on there own because they are a part of the whole saga and as such a part of what has to be achieved by some other saga. In my opinion they are every bit as entertaining as the OT and are therefore worthy partners.

I'm not just talking about the obvious movie comparisons here, in fact I'm trying to avoid that. I believe that the cinematic and cultural experience that is Star Wars will be extremely hard to imitate and it will take something completely different because ultimately that’s what made Star Wars such a massive success in the first place.

#2
Marquis de Sade

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The LOTR movies are up there with Star Wars.

#3
SATDIAL

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Dude there is no compare...LOTR is a good story but lacks of the back story in every little thing about it as star wars does. Iīve read the books and seen the movies and didnīt even cause the excitement in me that causes seeng a lightsaber blade coming to life.

#4
captainbleh

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Yes, SW is great blah blah blah. ESB is one of my favourites ever etc etc etc. However, the OT will still be regarded as a great trilogy in 25 years time whereas the PT will be dismissed as an interesting experiment...

#5
Sinister Lord Degiya'goh

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CaptainBleh, I don't know about that "dismissed as an interesting experiment" stuff. I doubt that is going to happen, especially considering that so many Star Wars fans are currently ranking Episode II as the second best (or even the best) Episode in the entire series... and who knows where EPIII will end up in the ranking? Personally I think Star Wars will eventually be thought of (and sold) as a six part saga, among which some films in the series are regarded as better than others... I think the Prequels are here to stay and will not be so easily "dismissed".

#6
MonAramis

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Yup, I agree with you SLD. I tend to view SW as a six-pack instead of PT and OT.

However, as I was watching ROTJ and ESB last weekend it is obvious that the OT is more Luke-centered where as PT is entirely Anakin-centered.

That is something I wish GL could "touch up" a little for the archival edition, give Vader a few more lines with the Emperor that referr to the PT just to tie up things nicely and to make sure that SW is the story of Anakin, not Anakin(PT) and Luke (OT).

My two cents

#7
Justus

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Djo, SW as a concept survives based on (more than anything else) the continued interest in and after-effects of the OT, as evidenced by the response to 1997's Special Editions, which (in the face of questionable additions--read: Greedo shoots first) still held onto the basic SW story. THAT is the pop culture legacy SW still leaves, long after the hit-and-miss PT is over and done, the legacy will still center on the OT and its original contribution to cinema and modern-history, pop culture mythology.

Some fans (quite a number of them young) love the PT more than the OT, but the PT--aside from industry-altering technological advances--leaves little in the way of genuine popular culture influences or effects, unlike its OT "brother" series.

Having posted all of that, I do think it is a bit presumptuous to assume something else will never come along and be "the next SW" in terms of genre, industry influence, popular culture, and other factors. Next to NOTHING lasts forever as the dominant "thing" in its genre, and it is a VERY real possibility this may (one day) apply to Star Wars as well.

For example: Superman is (perhaps) the most well-known fictional character ever created, and the influence on his industry of origin (and landmark successes in merchandising, film and TV)is nearly incalculable BUT, with the passing of a few decades after "his" birth, Superman and his immediate published legacy was overshadowed (to a large degree) by new creations which (especially in the case of Spider-Man) would rise to out-sell Superman, and become the new character and style of influence for the industry, and even Spider-Man (even after one of the highest grossing theatrical films and DVDs in history AND still very popular) is now no longer the most influential or the standard.

It is no different than many fields of the arts where a very popular/influential work "reigns supreme" for some time; eventually, something in its own genre will come along and have a matching or greater influence.

Again, very few, if any creations can dominate a genre (in relation to industry influence & popular culture) forever, even if "it" is still considered a unquestioned classic for "all time" (ex. A New Hope, where many print or TV critic film lists are concerned).

#8
Djo

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Justus, I agree that Star Wars survives as a major cultural influence because of the OT. I didn't make it clear in my post but that really was what I was saying. I also said that the Prequels are every bit as entertaining and a worthy partner IMHO.

I also agree that I was being presumptuous in stating that nothing will beat it in that genre. I actually was being more presumptuous than you thought because I was thinking that there is no other cinematic experience that has had such a wide ranging cultural impact. I was implying that the next Star Wars would have to be the next cinematic saga that stamps itself on the collecive concience beyond the cinema.

You cite Superman and say that it looks like Spiderman will be the next Superman. Maybe I'm one-eyed when it comes to Star Wars. Maybe I only see Star Wars all aound because thats what catches my attention. But I don't think Superman had entered the collective cultural concience ('scuse the alliteration) in the same way Star Wars has. We have yet to see whether Spiderman will. If it does then it may well be the next Star Wars, different genre and all.

Frankly I would love to see a fantasy/sci-fi series become the new Star Wars. I was kinda hoping LOTR would be like that. But my main problem with LOTR is that I can't share it with my kids.

My favourite movie of all time is Moulin Rouge. For the first time since ESB I walked out to the cinema completely enthralled. I went on to see it 4 more times in the cinema and have watched the DVD endlessly. There are aspects of Baz Luhrmann's Red Curtain Trilogy which could equate to the OT. Reinvention of a genre, innovative story telling, the use of mytholgical themes in fantasy or contempory settings, critics who love it and critics who just don't get it. But of course Moulin Rouge could never be the next Star Wars because the next Star Wars would also have to be a Box Office smash and invade our culture. No toys no books and not for kids. Though my girls enjoy the dancing and music, until they are older I will skip some of the darker parts of the movie.

I also foregot to mention the EU. I see the EU not so much as part of the saga but as a result of ongoing interest. There's also the fact that Star Wars is actually a part of the High School English Syllubus here in Australia.

Basically what I'm saying is that the next Star wars has a lot to live up to.

#9
Vader Hater

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Here is how I look at it, Star Wars is the best Sci-Fi movie ever. LOTR is the best fantasy movie ever. I think that comparing them to one another is a big waist of time, it is to close to decide.
That is how I see it atleast.

#10
obi wan quixote

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I'm with the captain. I think they will dimish over time instead of rising in popularity- I don't think they will compliment the OT, but reduce it.

And I would call the PT a lot of thing (most of them bad) but I certainly wouldn't call it "Anakin'centered." It's effects and set-piece centered. Anakin's turn to the darkside (what the whole purpose of the PT was) is reduced to a subplot amid monsters, cloners, pod races, bumbling gungans, and a dearth of other plot devices and effects pieces. Two movies of three have come and gone and we have seen Palp and Anakin together all of twice. So much for Palp's manipulation of Anakin. Because of this, GL will be forces into one of two situations. 1) he crams III full of interaction with Palp and Anakin which won't fly with me because it wasn't set up in I and II. 2) he will have to pull a "duex ex machina"- a big "revalation" that Anakin has been under the influence of Palp/Sid all this time, its just that GL hasn't mentioned it (other than AOTC scene, which encapaulates GL's failure in the PT in my eyes) and he hasn't showed it to you. It's been happening behind the scenes while you watched asteroid chases and monsters in areas and intergalactic soap box derby races.

#11
Justus

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quote:


Originally posted by Djo:
Justus, I agree that Star Wars survives as a major cultural influence because OT. I didn't make it clear in post but that really was what I was saying.

Understood.

The OT effect overshadows (in a popular culture/influence sense) anything presented in the PT, although you (and others) see it "just as" entertaining and a worthy partner to the OT.


quote:


You cite Superman and say that it looks like Spiderman will be the next Superman. Maybe I'm one-eyed when it comes to Star Wars. Maybe I only see Star Wars all aound because thats what catches my attention. But I don't think Superman had entered the collective cultural concience ('scuse the alliteration) in the same way Star Wars has. We have yet to see whether Spiderman will. If it does then it may well be the next Star Wars, different genre and all.

When mentioning Spider-Man taking overtaking Superman's influnece and popularity, I was first referring to Spider-Man's near-instant explosive effect on the comic industry within the character's first half decade of existence.

Before the 1960s were over, Spider-Man (and other Marvel Comics characters overshadowed DC Comics' Superman in terms of influence, style and effect on pop culture. In fact, the only other character to rival this influence was Batman, and that was thanks to the "Batmania" global phenomenon inspired by the successful 1966-68 TV series.

So, Spider-Man started to take over and by the end of the 1970s (even after Superman: The Movie became a worldwide blockbuster) Spider-Man was one of the most published, sequelized, merchandised fictional characters in existence and led the way of the so-called "Marvel Age" of comics.

In this rather quick way, we can see how a once mighty creation like a Superman could be overshadowed in its genre of origin. Shift to "today" and now that we have experienced the thunderous success of 2002's Spider-Man movie, there are many who believe it has replaced 1978's Superman: The Movie as the greatest comic-to-film adaptation ever made--further proof (in the example) of one creation dominating over another.

quote:


I was kinda hoping LOTR would be like that. But my main problem with LOTR is that I can't share it with my kids.

Hmm. Maybe when they are a little older they may get into it. From memory, I recall some kids really getting into the LOTR books, while others did not, so it can be assumed its the kind of story that "grabs" kids at diferent times of their lives, I imagine.

quote:


My favourite movie of all time is Moulin Rouge. For the first time since ESB I walked out to the cinema completely enthralled. I went on to see it 4 more times in the cinema and have watched the DVD endlessly. There are aspects of Baz Luhrmann's Red Curtain Trilogy which could equate to the OT. Reinvention of a genre, innovative story telling, the use of mytholgical themes in fantasy or contempory settings, critics who love it and critics who just don't get it. But of course Moulin Rouge could never be the next Star Wars because the next Star Wars would also have to be a Box Office smash and invade our culture. No toys no books and not for kids. Though my girls enjoy the dancing and music, until they are older I will skip some of the darker parts of the movie.

Cool. To each his/her own. Sort of like my childhood friends who enjoyed only certain parts of LOTR, but when they were a few years older, they enjoyed the entire book(s), cover-to-cover.

quote:


There's also the fact that Star Wars is actually a part of the High School English Syllubus here in Australia.

Now that's fascinating....

quote:


Basically what I'm saying is that the next Star wars has a lot to live up to.

Yes it will. Thanks to the technological advances (in part a nod to ILM) there is a wide range of popular novels or screenplays that can (finally) be filmed and treated "right" in every way that did not exist years ago. With no technical barriers really existing anymore, it would not surprise me to see a film stike that special chord in audiences the way it happened with SW all those years ago.

#12
Djo

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quote:


I'm with the captain. I think they will dimish over time instead of rising in popularity- I don't think they will compliment the OT, but reduce it.

You don't agree with the Captain at all he didn't say the OT will be diminished he said

quote:


The OT will still be regarded as a great trilogy in 25 years time whereas the PT will be dismissed as an interesting experiment...

Anyway I respect both your opinions on the PT but I happen to like the Prequels just as much. Time will tell if the Prequels diminish the OT. That doesn't appear to be the case at the moment. One of my main points in this thread is that the Prequels are, despite their unpopularity amongst some of the OT fans, still appealling to a wide group of people and as a result are bringing a whole new generation to the saga. The main difference is that now we have a lot more in the fantasy and sci-fi genres to choose from and that is a good thing!!

quote:


Hmm. Maybe when they are a little older they may get into it.

I'm sure my 9 year will. She's already read The Hobbit and will probably tackle the other books once she has finished reading all the Potters, for the third time. :)

My point was that I can't share them with the kids now films are too dark and too long. That is they are not made to appeal to kids younger children. But I was able to take my four year old to see AOTC. See what I'm sayin'. I'm know it's not just me. My 3 year old nephew can quote Star Wars. He would happily sit down and watch all 5 movies. When I helped out at my daughters school and they were asked to write about something they liked, they starting discussing Star Wars. Things such as "you know Anakin becomes Darth Vader. My dad told me". These kids are sharing with their parents in a way they can share few other things. Bike riding, swimming in the surf, going to a Star Wars movie and actually being able to discus it. Of course not everybody does these things. But the potential is there with a Star wars movie unlike any other.

I'm really going on a bit I know but it does come down to this:

quote:


Thanks to the technological advances (in part a nod to ILM) there is a wide range of popular novels or screenplays that can (finally) be filmed and treated "right" in every way that did not exist years ago. With no technical barriers really existing anymore, it would not surprise me to see a film strike that special chord in audiences the way it happened with SW all those years ago.

I really hope so!!! Something my kids generation could share with their kids generation.

#13
JJ

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Hey, Djo. BTW, what happened to the promised review/essay from Lard of AOTC. He's taken really a long time for it. Have any idea what is holding it off?

Meanwhile, I think SW is here to stay and the Prequels have actually stimulated SW interest. I think after Ep. III is done, we'll see whether the Prequels will be considered as highly as the OT. I think there is a possibility rather than assuming there won't be. thumbs_u

#14
Djo

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JJ I'm with you there, of course. :P

I keep checking back at The Lard Biscuit site. He's obviously still meditating on it. :)

#15
Wake Up George Forever

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I think there are things that have emerged over the years that have had as great a cultural impact as Star Wars - although not necesarily films - The Simpsons for example, Star trek TNG. I think eventually there will be a comparable "event" in cinema - many believe The Matrix, Lord Of The Rings, Harry Potter already have but I don't really see theappeal of these movies (I haven't seen Potter BTW).

As for Lord of The Rings: from what I've seen of them - the parts I like (that worked for me) have already been incorporated into the Star Wars saga, and benefit from the fact that they have been removed from an entirely "fantasy" based setting and have been moved into the realms of Sci Fi (although Star Wars is really a fantasy film and I wouldn't class it as Sci Fi in the pure sense).

#16
Djo

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G'day Nightly.

 

So recently I have been quietly looking back over some old Nightly discussions that I was involved in and came across this discussion I started back in 2003. It doesn't appear to be locked so the question remains: what will be the "Next Star Wars". Since this was posted I feel the closest we have come is Harry Potter. The potential is there for more films and books and with merchandising and Universal's Potter Worlds ever evolving, Potter mania will live for a very long time. There's also the DC and Marvel Universes as well as the Fast and Furious franchise. The Matrix showed promise but in the end fizzled out. There was LotR and there has always been James Bond. But here we are again with The Last Jedi poised to end it's Box Office run in the US Top 5 and could very well end up in the top 10 Worldwide. For three years running a Star Wars movie has ended the year as number one Box Office film of the year. In terms of inter generational appeal and longevity Star Wars seems to keep on keeping on.

 

Since starting this discussion I've changed my view of the PT as just as entertaining as the OT. It hasn't stood the test of time, though I still enjoy watching the PT I find that TFA and Rogue One wiped out some of the good will I had towards the PT because those movies showed that Star Wars could mature with it's original audience. Likewise TLJ, though the Casino scene was reminiscent of the PT in a way that I knew would anger many, the majority of the movie showed that Star Wars was moving forward (if you disagree with that assessment then  fine but that's a different topic).

 

I'd be interested to hear if others believe something else has taken over Star Wars crown as the number 1 cinematic and popular culture phenomenon since I asked the question back in 2003. For me the Force is as strong as ever.

 

Cheers.



#17
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The enduring popularity of Star Wars is astounding. I'd say the closest things would be Harry Potter and the Marvel movies. Potter though seems like it may be fading in some ways. Fantastic Beasts, which I'd somewhat compare to Rogue One, "only made 234 million bucks domestic". Rogue One more than doubled that. Even the new Thor which did well, "only has earned" about 310 mil. When a Star Wars movies does that it would be seen as some sort of catastrophe. Ofcourse as we get deeper into the Disney Star Wars movies it will be interesting to see how long it puts up the huge numbers it has thus far.



#18
The Choc

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wrong thread, sorry



#19
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Whoa-- super necro-bump...

 

This is something I have been thinking about.

 

It's easy to cite Harry Potter, Marvel, or LOTR as the next Star Wars-- but that's actually way off. They are emulating what Star Wars became-- they are the heroic adventure stories told in an epic sweeping fashion and at the same time are FX-driven tentpole movie franchises.

 

There are three movies that every mainstream movie today has to emulate-- Star Wars and Six Sense. Every script read in Hollywood is compared to these. Since the day Star Wars came out, the 3 act heroes journey/adventure is the cornerstone of every mainstream summer adventure movie.

 

The NEXT Star Wars has to try and do what Star Wars DID, not emulated what it became. Here's what the recipe would have to be, (and what SW was for reference):

 

1. a genre that allows for experimentation and loose rules, most likely, a merging of multiple genres in an unexpected way (science fiction world with fantasy tropes)

2. a narrative framework that cashes in one something so universally and inherently known, that pretty much anyone could get hooked into it  (basic myth-building / heroes journey)

3. a setting that manages to do massive world building without ever actually getting into details that slow things down (the lived-in world of Star Wars)

4. have a budget and distribution that can carry the epic weight and make sure it doesn't look terrible (Fix thought they had a bomb)

5. likely a singular driving creative force to keep things on track (Lucas, the early years)

 

That's a short list that's a very tall order to pull off.

 

I think LOTR was the best example of this in literature. I can't think of many examples to come after Star Wars-- maybe The Gunslinger series, but the movie was terrible and even Stephen King says it was his LOTR.



#20
Djo

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The NEXT Star Wars has to try and do what Star Wars DID, not emulated what it became. Here's what the recipe would have to be, (and what SW was for reference):

 

1. a genre that allows for experimentation and loose rules, most likely, a merging of multiple genres in an unexpected way (science fiction world with fantasy tropes)

2. a narrative framework that cashes in one something so universally and inherently known, that pretty much anyone could get hooked into it  (basic myth-building / heroes journey)

3. a setting that manages to do massive world building without ever actually getting into details that slow things down (the lived-in world of Star Wars)

4. have a budget and distribution that can carry the epic weight and make sure it doesn't look terrible (Fix thought they had a bomb)

5. likely a singular driving creative force to keep things on track (Lucas, the early years)

 

That's a short list that's a very tall order to pull off.

 

That was my original point back in 2003. What is going to come out of nowhere and change the way people think about movies and pop culture and the way they make movies. You are right Tank, Potter and the Comic book Universes are emulating the Star Wars formula. I'm thinking it's going to take a saga filmed and experienced within a Virtual reality format. The real revolution may come when these experiences are had from home, shared with the fandom all over the world and are interactive. An amalgam of gaming, streaming services and VR tech. It's all there it just needs a saga to pull them all together. Will that saga be Star Wars or something else?



#21
Zerimar Nyliram

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It's hard for me to weigh in on this discussion since my opinion of what Star Wars is goes beyond a series of films. To me, it is a massive saga spanning many formats. It's very hard to follow something like that up, though I believe Mass Effect could potentially do the same thing. They just need to expand at a faster rate, incorporate more things, both visual and written.



#22
Djo

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It's hard for me to weigh in on this discussion since my opinion of what Star Wars is goes beyond a series of films. To me, it is a massive saga spanning many formats. It's very hard to follow something like that up, though I believe Mass Effect could potentially do the same thing. They just need to expand at a faster rate, incorporate more things, both visual and written.

 

 

I agree that's the premise of the topic. Can anyone follow Star Wars' vast scope and enduring appeal.



#23
Djo

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I know I'm taking this off topic but in trawling through by Nightly back catalogue I found this interesting comment from ShadowDog in this thread https://nightly.net/...heavy-spoilers/ back in 2007:

 

One other thing for now. I guess I'm going to have to continue to wait for the day when someone writing a long running franchise series has the GUTS to kill off one of the big three. So far no one has. Han, Luke, and Leia all live. Buffy, Xander, and Willow all live. And now Ron, Hermione, and Harry all live. Whatever. rolleyes.gif For this to really have the resonance it needed, either Ron or Hermione had to go. Just my opinion of course. Hopefully, within my lifetime, someone will have some guts.

 

 

Hey ShadowDog, do Han and Luke dying (and Leia's inevitable death) count or will you want to see one of the new "big three" die in Ep IX?



#24
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It doesn't count this time around, it would have had to have happened in ROTJ. So yeah the equivalent would be Rey, Finn, or Poe. But knowing they're going to want to do more movies after this to keep cashing in there's no way they'd kill any one of those three

#25
Robin

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If I recall right Poe was set to die in TFA but somebody was like dude is gorgeous keep him in the film. His character is pointless, meaningless, superfluous and other ssss so he could die in the next film anyway.

The only good thing to come from Poe is the Auto-Correct meme. Okay, no thats not true... the Bro meme is good too. Okay, no wrong again... the Can You Fly a Tie-Fighter meme is great too.



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