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anti americanism. really pisses me off.


yolande
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Jedi Rebel:

What gets me is that when people want to start a new life in the USA, they should already know that they are coming to a new country with a differnet culture. But some of them, NOT ALL, get here, something will offend them, and they raise hell, and then we have to compromise our rights and privileges to suit them. Fair? Just? No, not at all, not in a society that focuses on being politically correct. And although this is politically correct, it is most decidedly morally incorrect.

Ok, Do you know how many times I've heard Americans in my country, and in Asian countries complain because "It was not like home!"? They try and tell everyone that it's not being done right and that it's better back in the U.S, especially with food. I have some American friends and i'm not saying all Americans are the same but majority are arogant. I remember when America called for nations to support their war on Iraq and when New Zealand said no, they imposed a whole lot of trade tarrifs which has hurt our economy. Where's the freedom of opinion their? We have to suppport your damn war for oil or suffer punishment through trade? You can't tell me that Americans believe their better then everyone else!

 

America goes on about being Democratic and then they try and tell everyone how to think! I don't know how you can be so blind to why their is so much anti-Americanism in the world.

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Well when someone's a visitor in another country they should respect the country they are visiting, regardless of the country in question. If I were visiting Canada, I'd have to respect their laws and customs, likewise if an Austrailian were visiting the United States the Australian should respect U.S. laws and customers...

 

I dunno, I can see good and bad in all countries including the U.S., I love mexican and asian food, anime *sadly hentai to some degree, not too explicit*, and some other things I can't think of at the moment. I'm a Sony and Nintendo fan, and like video games made in Canada, Mexico, and Asia, so I'm not a "made in the U.S., person..."

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Stormtrooper X:

I remember when America called for nations to support their war on Iraq and when New Zealand said no, they imposed a whole lot of trade tarrifs which has hurt our economy. Where's the freedom of opinion their? We have to suppport your damn war for oil or suffer punishment through trade?

So New Zealand has the right to not help the United States, but the United States doesn't have the right to decide to trade with someone else? That seems a bit hypocritical to me. Generally, New Zealand will support the US in most things. When something comes up that New Zealand doesn't like (Iraq), it won't. Then when something comes up that the US doesn't like (NZ not supporting them in Iraq), the US decided to pull some support of it's own.

 

This second drawing back of support is wrong, apparently, and engenders anti-American sentiment. The first drawing back of support is A-OK and no big deal. No. Either both are right, both are wrong, or both are morally neutral and just things that sovereign nations do in looking out for their best interests. You decide. But they're both the same.

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quote:

Ok, Do you know how many times I've heard Americans in my country, and in Asian countries complain because "It was not like home!"? They try and tell everyone that it's not being done right and that it's better back in the U.S, especially with food. I have some American friends and i'm not saying all Americans are the same but majority are arogant.

You know, I work with an Indian girl who says much the same thing about her home country.

 

I'm pretty sure this isn't an American thing.

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Lucas:

So New Zealand has the right to not help the United States, but the United States doesn't have the right to decide to trade with someone else? That seems a bit hypocritical to me. Generally, New Zealand will support the US in most things. When something comes up that New Zealand doesn't like (Iraq), it won't. Then when something comes up that the US doesn't like (NZ not supporting them in Iraq), the US decided to pull some support of it's own.

 

This second drawing back of support is wrong, apparently, and engenders anti-American sentiment. The first drawing back of support is A-OK and no big deal. No. Either both are right, both are wrong, or both are morally neutral and just things that sovereign nations do in looking out for their best interests. You decide. But they're both the same.

Oh, so if New Zealand was as big as the US is today and the US was as big as New Zealand is today, and NZ, put tarrifs on your nation because you didn't support our war, you would think it was A-Ok? New Zealand has been trying to build it's relationship with the US after that, adn everytime, NZ does, the US stomps on them and turns to their bum buddie, Australia and England!

 

By saying New Zealand will support the US in most things, is because we have to! We're a small country and if we don't our economy suffers more.

 

Like i said, not all are the same. Somehow that was lost in the reading I guess.

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son of lucas:

You know, I work with an Indian girl who says much the same thing about her home country.

 

I'm pretty sure this isn't an American thing.

I'm not saying it's an AMerican thing. It happens everywhere. I'm just saying that it's mostly coming from Americans. I know some arrogant Kiwis and Aussies, but in general are open to anything and will try anything. Alot of the Americans I've met like to stick to what their used to and bag everything else.

 

Just watch The Amazing Race. A show full of arrogant obnoxious people who are rude to nearly everyone they come across. It just shows the world.

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Stormtrooper X:

Oh, so if New Zealand was as big as the US is today and the US was as big as New Zealand is today, and NZ, put tarrifs on your nation because you didn't support our war, you would think it was A-Ok? New Zealand has been trying to build it's relationship with the US after that, adn everytime, NZ does, the US stomps on them and turns to their bum buddie, Australia and England!

 

By saying New Zealand will support the US in most things, is because we have to! We're a small country and if we don't our economy suffers more.

 

Like i said, not all are the same. Somehow that was lost in the reading I guess.

So New Zealand should be able to exert their influence as a nation to it's full potential, but the US should not? That's what you're saying. The US shouldn't try as hard because it's bigger. That's like your dad letting you beat him in basketball when you're 9. Except this is the real world, and things have much larger implications.

 

Do you think that if New Zealand was as influential as America New Zealand would stop trying to exert it's influence because a nation had less power? Really?

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You didn't understand where i was coming from. I think all countries should try as hard, but one country shouldn't try to hold another country down based on opinion. I wasn't saying that one country, a smaller country should have it better over a bigger country! I was saying that's what happens and is happening today because one countries economy is ten times bigger!

 

anyway, it's my opinion, and i have my right to it. I'm not saying your wrong and i'm right. I trying to see where you're coming from but you don't want to understand where i'm coming from.

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No the point is every country tries it's hardest, to put it simple terms. When other countries 'try their hardest' it's okay, because they have to try to 'make ends meet', to use another idiom. But when the US tries it's hardest it's immediately unfair. Do you think the United States reached it's apex by not trying it's hardest? I'm sure several hundreds of thousands of Native American ghosts would disagree.

 

The government of the United States of America's job is to try to strengthen it's power. To do anyhting else would be a deriliction of duty and, arguably, treasonous. I'm sure the same goes for New Zealand, so just understand that everyone involved is using their assests as best as possible and leave it at that. If you want to be bitter, be bitter, but don't cry foul. Everyone is doing their best.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:

So New Zealand has the right to not help the United States, but the United States doesn't have the right to decide to trade with someone else?

Are you actually equating joining in on what many of us considered an immoral, self-righteous, greed-driven, venegeful, imperialistic WAR with picking and choosing who you sell your corn flakes to? NZ had pretty hefty reasons for not jumping into that fray, and the US acted out of revenge. Mature.

 

quote:

Originally posted by Stormtrooper X:

Just watch The Amazing Race. A show full of arrogant obnoxious people who are rude to nearly everyone they come across. It just shows the world.

I wish they'd make an Amazing Race with teams from different countries. But they won't, as it wouldn't sell in the US.

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Miisa:

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:

So New Zealand has the right to not help the United States, but the United States doesn't have the right to decide to trade with someone else?

Are you actually equating joining in on what many of us considered an immoral, self-righteous, greed-driven, venegeful, imperialistic WAR with picking and choosing who you sell your corn flakes to? NZ had pretty hefty reasons for not jumping into that fray, and the US acted out of revenge. Mature.

Yeah, I am. Funny you bring up the word 'mature' because that's exactly how developed, mature nations act. All nations act in their best interests at all times, because every other nation is acting in it's best interests at tall times. If they don't they're endangering their populace. You act as if all the countries out there are just having a good time, more interested in 'fair play' and a 'good game' than being cutthroat and putting their people #1 over every other concern on the planet. And then here comes the US, taking things too seriously, coming down on any happy-go-lucky nation that's just out there trying to have a good time.

 

No. Every country is doing that, pressing where and when they can press. The US can press harder, more often, in more places. And because of that, you think they shouldn't at all. Please be mature. No one said it worked out nicely for anyone else on the planet, no one said it was polite. But it's not wrong when the US does it and okay when other countries do it.

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The anti-american back-lash is the result of us pushing too hard. The UN finally growing the nards to tell us no is the result of us pushing too hard. We definately need help in the big-ass mess we made in Iraq, and we're not getting the help we need, becuase we pushed people too hard. That's what happens to bullies. People get sick of it. That's why being a blow-hard is bad policy. In the long run, it harms you.

 

OMG I'LL CUT YOU YOU BETTER DO WHAT I TOLD YOU TO OR I'LL KICK YOUR ASS YOU PUNK!!!!

 

HAY, WAIT, WHY DOESN'T ANYONE WANT TO BE MY FRIEND I NEED HELP CAN SOMEONE HELP ME PLEASE??????

 

This isn't good diplomacy. We can sit around and whine and cry about how unfair it is that we're facing the consequences of 4 years of pathetic grandstanding, or else we learn a lesson from it and learn to kick bone-headed retards out of office if they try this kind of elementary school politics again.

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Every country can place tarrifs, but on imported goods. i'm not saying they can't! BooRadley is right. Just read his post! This thread is about why their is so much anti-americanism, I put in my opinion and the two people who have posted to to mine, are Americans and are pretty much saying NO YOUR WRONG! They have just answered why nations are the way they are today!

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Lucas:

No the point is every country tries it's hardest, to put it simple terms. When other countries 'try their hardest' it's okay, because they have to try to 'make ends meet', to use another idiom. But when the US tries it's hardest it's immediately unfair. Do you think the United States reached it's apex by not trying it's hardest? I'm sure several hundreds of thousands of Native American ghosts would disagree.

 

The government of the United States of America's job is to try to strengthen it's power. To do anyhting else would be a deriliction of duty and, arguably, treasonous. I'm sure the same goes for New Zealand, so just understand that everyone involved is using their assests as best as possible and leave it at that. If you want to be bitter, be bitter, but don't cry foul. Everyone is doing their best.

As much as we don't see eye to eye on many issues, I agree with you on this one.

I'll be curious to see how the U.N reacts when another country, say China, takes the place of the U.S. as global superpower and if the U.N. will whine when China acts in a similiar manner...

unimpres

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son of lucas:

quote:

Just watch The Amazing Race. A show full of arrogant obnoxious people who are rude to nearly everyone they come across. It just shows the world.

Yes, and no sample is more scientifically accurate than one put together by a TV producer.

:D

 

Can we have a round of applause for the shortest yet most useful post?

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Stormtrooper X:

I put in my opinion and the two people who have posted to to mine, are Americans and are pretty much saying NO YOUR WRONG! They have just answered why nations are the way they are today!

You can have your opinion, and that can be why there's anti-Americanism, but that doesn't make it any more reasonable. There was alot of anti-Lakerism when they were winning championships a few years ago, alot of anti-Cowboy and Ninerism in the early 90s when they were winning Super Bowls,, and everyone hates the Yankees.

 

There's a reason for that. Do you think that reason is any different than why there's alot of anti-Americanism? Or should we get mad at Shaq because he throws his weight around?

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quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:

All nations act in their best interests at all times, because every
other
nation is acting in it's best interests at tall times.

Of course they do, just as individuals do. But we don't consider it OK for people to behave the way the US felt it was allowed to. What if I think my neighbor is building a bomb in his garage, and the authorites go in, search the place and say they didn't find anything? Am I still entitled to shoot my neighbor "just in case" he was planning to blow my house up? I also think he was cruel and heartless because he spanked his kids, and that is illegal in my culture. IMO his family is obviously better off without him, even though he wasn't blowing up my house, after all.

 

So you call behaving like that mature? I expect better behavior from my two-year-old. But I guess civility (and thus also civilization) is a relative concept.

 

The US is doing its best to endanger peace any way it can, in the vain hope that it will be safer that way. Other countries don't like wars started at their doorsteps so that countries thousands of miles away can feel safe. Other countries also don't like it when wars are started for frivolous reasons. Even Iraqis who are glad Saddam is gone didn't want to depose him that way, with a war. It has been centuries since the US had a war on its soil, maybe it is time for that if it is what it takes to make the politicians see that war is actually a BAD thing. Very bad.

 

The LN and UN were started to keep countries from doing the very thing the US did to Iraq two years ago. But the critics of the UN are right, it is toothless, largely because the world's only superpower couldn't give an airborne copulation about what others think is right. And then it complains when they won't play its game, with its rules.

 

As a predominanty "Christian" nation it is practising very little Christ-like "do unto others"-mentality.

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This conversation doesn't have anything to do with the war in Iraq. It has to do with countries exerting their influence upon each other. Apparently, it's okay at some points and not okay at others.

 

But strangely enough it seems that the times when it's acceptable are curiously void of any American examples. And the times when it's unacceptable are chock full of Americans 'abusing' their power.

 

For example, for the longest time the United States refused to meet one-on-one with North Korean diplomats, they wanted a variety of other East Asian nations there. And let's not kid ourselves, in the end it came down to it being better for American interests if those other nations were there. But China didn't agree with that, China wanted the US and the PRK to meet privately- at least sometimes. And this was because it was better for Chinese interests for it to be done that way. So the US and China both tried to exert their influence to get their way. More than a handful of times, the US was accused of being stubborn, pig-headed, and, basically, a bully because it wouldn't change it's stance. But you didn't hear any of those same adjectives being used to describe China, even though they were doing the exact same thing.

 

So there you go: You can't have it both ways. You can be upset that America pushes it's advantages, be my guest. But don't try to rationalize your anger as anything other than what it is: A strictly emotional response because most other nations can't do the same as effectively.

 

But that's all on-topic, and much of what you wrote, Miisa, is not. To one specific point you mentioned, it's strange that you say the UN is toothless because America made it that way. After the Resolution was passed to interdict Iraq were he to not allow weapons inspectors the full gamut of clearances, the US actually moved to perform the aforementioned interdiction. And much of the rest of the UN that approved that resolution did not.

 

The UN is toothless as a police force because it's bark is not reinforced by it's bite. Two and half years ago that wasn't the case- at least the world didn't know it yet. But that's when the UN failed to do what they say they would do. That does more to break down respect and power than any outside force could ever do. But blame the United States I suppose, because as Wilt Chamberlain observed so astutely "Nobody cheers for Goliath."

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quote:

Originally posted by Lucas:

This conversation doesn't have anything to do with the war in Iraq. It has to do with countries exerting their influence upon each other.

Funny, I thought it had to do with the phenomena of anti-Americanism and the causes thereof. Most anti-American sentiment I have seen or experienced has risen in the past 2½ years.

 

quote:

But you didn't hear any of those same adjectives being used to describe China, even though they were doing the exact same thing.

Speak for yourself, plenty of countries are criticised in the media I browse, and by the UN, Amnesty International, WHO and other instances. Perhaps it rings louder when it is closer to home? Do we have a thread on anti-Sinoism? If not, does it still exist? Sure it does.

 

This thread was started by an American, to slag off anti-Americanism which s/he obviously took to heart. Perhaps the title should have been a clue that criticism of the topic was unwelcome? Or perhaps only internal anti-Americanism is on the discussion table?

 

Believe it or not (and you probably won't anyway, but what the hell), I am actually less upset about America throwing it weight around than I am by the self-righteous attitude it has while doing it, as if it is doing the world a favor. If its motives were as altruistic as it pretends both to the outside world (relatively unsuccessfully) and to its own citizens, then it should shut up and listen when it is being told that it is doing more harm than good.

 

Saddam was complying, but thanks to cultural insensitivity, everything had to happen according to American rules, and right NOW. He had the book thrown at him, and for what, to show the world an example? I am sure knowing that will make the Iraqis feel better.

When will the US realize that it is vitally important for leaders in some other cultures to do things that will save them face if they hope to still lead tomorrow? This applies to not just the Middle East, but also the Far East, and undoubteldy also many other areas. The leaders in also other countries have to act and talk to a certain degree selfishly, both on an individual level and for the people they represent. No-one likes just being walked over.

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The war has everything to do with it. When 9/11 happened the whole world was in shock and forgot about the arrogance and was supportive. Everyone felt for the people of America, Everyone! Nations supported the search for Bin Laden and the "War on Terror". Now it seems the "War on Terror" is causing terror for other countries. Look now at how many Bombs, car bombs and terrorist attacks are happening since the beginning of the iraqi war. Yes Suddam was bad and the things he did were horrific, but he held all of these extremists from doing what they are doing now!

 

You'll probably say the war in Iraq has nothing to do with it but that just shows how blind and arrogant you are to what is happeing in the world. If it aint in America it aint important!

 

How is it, No other country can hav WMD, but America can?

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The war has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, which is citizens of other nations being mad at the US for exerting it's strength when they do the same thing. I was speaking specifically to your example of being mad that the US doesn't trade as much with New Zealand- as if somehow New Zealand can exercise it's right to choose as a nation but the US can't; it has to keep dealing with New Zealand if it doesn't want to.

 

Stormtrooper, I've been Iraq. Three times. I've been to the Phillipines to fight Abu Sayyif, I've been to the NATO and EU headquarters in Brussels to speak about joint operations in Iraq- before half of them dropped out. And I've been on the Korean penninsula for over a year, even spending some time on the DMZ abutting North Korea. So maybe you're the one who's blind and ignorant and dealings outside your own country. Because this whole conversation you've only been stressing how the US has pressured New Zealand, and have spoke none of how New Zealand pressured the United States. To you, one is okay and the other is not. So which one of us is really holding a slef-centered point of view?

 

To answer your last question, several nations have WMD that America cares none about.

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