DANA-kin Skywalker

Yeah but you can't really see anything, his hand is in the way. Could be a totally rad scar being hidden there.

I saw avatar, didn't think it was anything special, but it made a sh*t-illion and one dollars. *shrugs*

I wonder if it was mutually agreed upon as per Disney's licensing agreement with Fox. You want Avatar theme parks? Give us dibs on the movie release date.

Why is it that whenever some criticizes TFA someone else right away has to bring up the PT?

I suppose you didn't notice that Poe (from nightly) drew the comparison first when he said "Finn's character was the worst in the entire franchise". He did more than just criticize it. It seems you only noticed the comparisons when they were what didn't want to hear. That's unfortunate.

 

 

Newsflash, pointing out that you didn't like one movie doesn't automatically make the other movie good.

I really appreciate you taking the time to keep me informed about my own opinions with your handy-dandy Newsflash, but I have to ask: which movie did I actually say I didn't like, again? Oh wait I didn't.

I'm more curious about the Poe vs Finn debate.

After watching TFA a few times, I have a really hard time viewing Poe as a main character. It was more like people decided there needed to be a main three, so Poe has to be it.

I always wondered if Finn and Poe were originally meant to be the same person. It's been said Poe was originally supposed to die early on in the film. Maybe Finn was supposed to escape the Death Sta.. *ahem hem* I mean Starkiller Base on his own, stumble upon Rey or BB-8, join the resistance, and take Poe's place in the space battle where HE would be the one who shoots the thingy really good and blowed it all up?

But this thread has proven my point: nobody cares about Finn.

Awwww! I liked Finn. I thought he was funny, I thought he had good chemistry with Rey, and in the end, when Rey was in trouble, I thought his character showed some true balls going up against Kylo when he knew he had like... a one percent chance of beating him (but he tried anyways because friendship). I thought it was heroic and sweet. For this, I liked his character.

 

Going forward however, I don't know what to do with this character. You mention "he has to have some kind of arc"...I don't know. Does he really? Not all characters need huge sweeping character arcs. Luke's arc spanned 3 movies. Han's arc was completed in ANH. Leia didn't have one. All three are great characters. I don't think Finn needs an arc...he needs something to DO.

 

Oh yeah, and pleeeeeeeeeease no dumb cyborg implants

If any of the mains are lacking in the character dept. I'd say it's Poe. His character is...ace pilot. Fascinating.

Poe's also the anti-bully poster boy.

"Don't let them scare you!"

"Don't let them push you around!"

"the resistance will not be intimidated by you!"

 

Huh? Finn is worthless why?

Absolutely incompetent characterization issues and borderline offensive. No way should a trained and indoctrinated from early childhood soldier be portrayed like that. Basically, he's got the same backstory of Grey Worm from Game of Thrones and he's running around as the damned bumbling comedy relief as he has a wacky misunderstanding with the female lead worthy of an 80s sitcom.

 

It should not happen. He was the singular most complete failure of TFA and easily the worst primary character in all of Star Wars (and possibly worse than any secondary character). Just an embarrassment to the franchise.

 

God I can't stand him.

Dude, he's a stormtrooper. A mindless automaton. A disposable person. Stormtroopers bumble through everything. What were you expecting, Robert Redford level charisma? I thought he was fine, for what he was. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's an embarrassment to the franchise. I'd take him over Jar-Jar, Padme, and Qui-Gon Jinn and Mace Windu any day. THOSE characters are embarrassments. I will give you this though: I wonder if he is going to have enough stuff to actually do in he upcoming films, though.

I never really thought about it before. Saw ROTJ as a kid and just took the outcome for granted, but what is Luke's plan there?

Luke expositioned his plan to Leia before he left the Ewok village. Luke and Vader could sense each others presence, so Luke turned himself in to lure Vader away from his rebels so they could complete their mission. He didn't have any real exit strategy, he just knew he had to turn himself in to save the rebellion. To save the dream.

Little blue pill? Gross, that would mean that Luke had a boner when his sister kissed him

Is bacta snorted or injected? Will The Last Jedi answer that question?

I always imagined it was like climbing up into an inside out bong

 

Bactabong

Oh come on. All were talking about here is Luke falling to the dark side, not drilling a glory hole in Poe Dameron's x-wing. And I don't even like the idea or think it's likely to happen. I'm saying it looks like it could.

I hate to say it, but this trailer actually lends more evidence towards the Luke = Snoke theory. So far we have:

 

-Snoke knows an unusual amount of knowledge of the private Vader, Emperor, and Luke showdown in ROTJ (sentiment caused Vader to turn on the emperor/topple the empire) almost as if he were there.

 

-Luke says he believes it's "time for the Jedi to end" as a certain fact. Snoke seems to want the same thing. Snoke doesn't specifically say he wants to kill Luke, he does say he doesn't want the resistance to find Luke, nor does he want the Jedi order to rise again. He seemed content with Luke simply vanishing. Why would Snoke take that chance? If he secretly IS Luke...there's your answer.

 

-Prior to TFA, Kylo went to Luke to train. Then he fell to the dark side under Luke's supervision. Snoke is apparently a known entity in all this, because Leia blames Snoke for her son's fall. Convenient sequence of events, and if Luke = Snoke then turning Kylo would be that much easier.

 

-in the flashbacks, the Jedi temple is In a flaming ruin, the students apparently all killed, presumably by Kylo. Luke is conveniently not in the damn thing, and he's been seen not actively defending the temple, but watching from afar. We suspiciously don't see Luke's face in any of these flashbacks, almost as if the screenwriters are holding their cards real close to the chest in these scenes. Hiding his face masks any facial emotion. Perhaps because this look is that of approval?

 

-in TFA, Kylo tells Snoke via hologram about Rey and her strength in the force. Change of plans! Snoke says "bring her to me". Another game changer: Starkiller base bloweded up. Kylo fails to deliver Rey to Snoke. Snoke needs to change his approach. R2d2 then magically turns on at the right moment like an alarm clock (by Luke?) allowing the silly map pieces to come together, making Luke's location finally known. Rey goes to him, with an agenda: training. if Luke = Snoke, this sequence of events actually makes more sense in terms of both motivations and technical plot issues. Rey gets manipulated into delivering herself to Snoke when he allows himself to be located.

 

...just sayin

Exactly. It's like when your closet gets overstuffed with clothes and you need to throw a whole bunch of stuff out

Since Luke's lines might not even be in the actual film, we very well may be talking about nothing.

 

If it is in the movie however, i think an important distinction to make is the difference between "balance", and this idea of "shades of grey". In terms of simple, standard Star Wars morality the former is obvious, while the latter does not even compute (with me anyways).

 

The light = good, dark = evil. THATS IT. I believe the point behind Luke's lines in the trailer is that one cannot exist without the other, and I guess this has always been a blind spot for the Jedi. Taoism and all that wonderful yin and yang stuff. You don't want to call it "light side" and just call it "the force"? Fine. Whatever. Same thing.

 

If all this is true, however, then this idea of shades of grey cannot make sense. It might seem to make some kind of sense in a video game, sliding scale morality meter kind-of way, but certainly not in a two hour Star Wars movie. If you're using the force, you are either using it for a good reason, or for a selfish or evil reason. The idea has always been if you use if for selfish or evil reasons, you tend to get corrupted by its power...but in all practicality that's really just a story-telling device for the audience to make the distinction between good and bad easier. Easy and simple morality = star wars.

 

This topic reminded me of a very stupid line from ROTS. Anakin says to Obi-Wan "if you're not with me, then you're my enemy". Then Obi-Wan responds "Only a sith deals in absolutes". If that's true, that would make him, Yoda, and Mace all sith as well. This contradiction makes me wonder if Lucas was even in charge of his own mind when he wrote the dialogue. Or....secretly brilliant for sowing the seeds for flaws in Jedi logic, leading to their downfall.

Except not all beings in the Star Wars galaxy are human. Are we supposed to think the Jedi teachings are specific to human psychology? Star Wars is about good and evil, black and white, not grey versus gray.

You're right. We should instead consider all the other kinds of psychology we are aware of.

Personally I never felt Luke went to the darkside and came back. I always felt like yeah he was angry and he used that anger to defeat Vader but that doesn't mean he went to the darkside. To me anger is a normal human emotion and to try to eliminate it is to basically try to stop someone from being human. Now you can't let it completely control your life, that is the darkside. But having a moment of anger when someone threatens the life of your sister and then shortly after calming down is not the darkside.

 

And to me that is what Luke is going to learn. That some of the Jedi teachings have perverted the earliest beliefs of the earliest Jedi. That you cannot stop being from being angry or afraid or from feeling attached to other people. Those emotions are part of the basic human experience and to try to eliminate them from someone is basically stopping them from feeling basic emotions.

 

That is what Luke learns in those books that nothing about the Force is inherently light or inherently dark.

Bingo.

Singular, plural...it doesn't matter at all. Luke is a Jedi and he's the last of them, and he's goona die. So there's not going to be any Jedi at all for a bit. But don't worry, Rey is going to bring the Jedi back in episode nine. The title is going to be The return of the Jedi(s).

Besides French people can't be trusted.

Not sure if youve heard, but a lesser known, non-studio, micro budget little indie film called "The Last Jedi" comes out in December.

Just like with Evil Luke speculation from TFA, if the theme is that there's no good and evil, just people who have misunderstood it and need to be in the gray, I'm out. Not saying they can't do it well, but 100% not the Star Wars I'm interested in.

Besides, they already tried it in the books and then realized it was a ****ty concept that had to be abandoned. Think about that: it was an idea that was too bad for the EU.

Yeah...I don't know either. I didn't read many of the books, but I'm not sure how I feel about the shades of grey idea. Its...not the star wars I recognize in any real way. I DO want new ideas, however. I just don't know how I feel about THIS one; it sounds to me like it might be a mistake. We'll see.

The one shot we got of Kylo he had a small linear scar on his face. I would've thought the way Rey almost burned his face off in TFA would've done more damage than that.

Yeah me too. Maybe that shot was carefully crafted and angled perfectly to hide most of the damage. He should be lucky to even have a face still.

What if there is no lightside or darkside and they were just constructs created by the Jedi/Sith?

Exactly.

What I glean from this is:

 

Jedi got wiped out, Luke brought them back, and got wiped out again. He thought to himself, what the hell do we keep doing wrong? He went looking for answers, went as far back as he could, and discovered some major critical flaws in the Jedi- probably about how to manage the darkside, bringing their own destruction upon themselves and more importantly others (balance, etc). This leads him to his conclusion that the Jedi must end. Since Luke is most certainly a Jedi, he's okay with sending himself on a suicide mission.

 

These ideas aren't exactly aren't exactly ground-breaking. They've been mentioned before around here. I even remember myself (before TFA even came out) the idea of Luke being some kind of "reluctant hero". It certainly appears that way by this trailer.

Im probably missing something, but do we know if anyone actually came out and said "oh yeah, I got a problem with this", or are we just talking hypothetical?